Lisa, you are very lucky. You also don't have snow and ice. Today it's 12 degrees and icy. I look out at my barren garden that is dotted with sticks coming out of the ground that will transform into lush rose bushes in June and I just can't wait!

The systemic fungicide recommended by DA roses is Bayer advanced. Have you tried using it? I have a rose garden in Long Island NY with about 50 roses (most of them DA) and disease has been under control with neem oil spray and 3 in 1 Bayer advanced. I am always amused when I read the advice that one should grow ugly roses because they are black spot resistant.

Hi Lota, I did try that one before I used a systemic product. It didn't help. I'm sure if I had sprayed earlier it would have. How often do you use Neem oil? I was using it every 2 weeks once I saw BS taking hold. It did not work at all. Maybe I should have started in May?

I live in Long Island NY and my last spring and summer were really hot, rainy and humid. I usually spray the Neem oil in the late evenings so the sun does not burn the leaves. If it rains than I repeat the process since neem oil runs off after a rain. I spray Neem oil every seven days or after a rain. The Neem oil helps but there is still some fungus pressure no matter what i do since my weather was so humid. While doing a search on bayer advanced it turns out that it has a chemical Imidacloprid which is toxic to honey bees. Turns out bayer, ortho and bondie are all using it. This is a big problem I now have to find a new chemical that does not kill bees. I am also using a grub killer for my lawn that has Imidacloprid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid_effects_on_bees

on the other hand

University of Maryland conducts a study on Imidacloprid and declares it safe for honey bees at realistic exposures level https://entomologytoday.org/2015/03/19/study-finds-imidacloprid-safe-for-honey-bees-at-realistic-exposure-levels/

I wouldn't bother moving the roses. It isn't going to make that much of a difference. The disease pressure is so high, and the roses so susceptible that minor changes in culture are barely going to make a dent in the problem. The usual recommendation around here for fungicide is Banner Maxx. I personally don't spray, so that isn't from my own experience.

"Bayer Advanced" is not a product - it is several products. The 3 in 1 includes an INSECTICIDE. There is one Bayer Advanced product which only includes fungicides. Read the labels.

Jackie

Lota, I believe the Bayer Advanced is a 3-in-1 with sytemic insecticide, fungicide and fertilizer. There are many products that have just fungicide. FWIW, I grow a lot of roses and some very beautiful ones (to my eyes, at least) have proven BS resistant. These would be Pink Pet, Marie Pavie, Tooth Fairy, Maggie, Peggy Martin, Ghislaine de Feligonde, New Dawn, Viking Queen, Yvonne Rabier, Clotilde Soupert, Summer Romance, Molineux, First Crush, Fire Opal, Bordeaux..... shall I go on? While tastes may vary and none of these are HTs and most of my DAs get some BS, it is possible to grow roses that are beautiful in flower and form without using systemics. I do a dormant oil spray and BS sprays throughout the season until I tire of it. I'm not averse to just fungicides, per se, I just haven't seen the need with most of my roses.

OP, the main advice on fungicide use is to vary what you use so they don't build up a resistance.

Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley, what do you use for BS? Also, I don't know what a dormant oil spray means.

Dormant oil is a horticultural oil, although I don't know if neem will work the same way. It is applied in early spring and basically covers the canes and smothers any spores and things overwintering in the canes such as scale. BS sprays means baking soda spray with some natural soap added for adhesion. Sorry for the confusion. It works pretty well until the worst of the season hits or I get lazy and we have so much rain. I don't spray all my roses, just Eglantyne, Dark Desire, Darcey Bussel, Violet's Pride and a few others. I love Eglantyne so much I'd use a "real" fungicide on her. : ))

https://www.lowes.com/pd/BAYER-ADVANCED-Disease-Control-32-oz-Concentrate-Garden-Fungicide/3005265?cm_mmc=shp--c--prd--lwn--google--lia--241--outdoorpesticide--3005265-_-0&store_code=2382&placeholder=null&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI38237M-V5wIVmJOzCh1YJAAHEAQYASABEgLfk_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

It looks like this is the Bayer fungicide only. I will use this only if all else fails!

jacqueline9ca, vaporvac & carla, thanks for the clarification guys and i really appreciate the advice. I will be reading the labels and sticking with the fungicide only.

Carla, and anyone else on this thread who is interested, here is a podcast interview with a rosarian from Swarthmore College's rose garden in which he discusses organic rose gardening. He addresses some of the topics we've been discussing here: https://awaytogarden.com/organic-rose-care-scott-arboretums-adam-glas/

P.S. most definitely anti-fungal alone is better than anti-fungal with pesticide, but it still kills beneficial fungi. If anyone bothers to put mycorrhizal granules in their planting holes (someone gave me a bag of the David Austin brand so I've used it) then applying fungicides would kill off those good fungi too. FYI. But talking about mycorrhizae is probably on the far hippie edge of rose gardening, so I'll shut up now.

K S - Thank you for the link. I'll study hard :)

Thank you for linking that great little read. I'd never heard of using fish oil for BS, but will look into it. Too bad the garden link didn't include a list of all the roses grown.

The impact of fungicides on mycorrhizae seems to depend on the type of fungicide, when it is applied, how it is applied (foliar or drench), and the type of mycorrhizae (endo- or ecto-) in question.

This pages gives a good basic overview of the issue: https://www.lebanonturf.com/education-center/biological-plant-treatments/fungicide-effects-on-mycorrhizae

However, that page does not mention tebuconazole, which is the fungicide in BioAdvanced/Bayer Advanced, nor its cousin propiconazole, which is in Banner Maxx. Those two fungicides are the ones of most use to rose gardeners because of their demonstrated effect on black spot. So have a look at this table to see where they fall: http://myamazingyield.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Effects-of-Fungicides-on-Mycorrhizal-Fungi.pdf. 

KS, I rode in a medical building elevator with Jeff Lowenfels in Alaska. He is a really good man.

I am always amused when I read the advice that one should grow ugly roses because they are black spot resistant.

Sorry but there are many, many BS resistant roses that are not ugly.

Ok here goes, a recipe for success......Go to Rosemania website and read their advice on spraying for diseases. They are on target. You can order from Amazon if you choose not to order product from them. You probably cannot buy products locally that work well. You will not kill good fungus in dirt with leaf sprays. Suggest PLANT SUCCESS for mycorrhizae bought from their website for best price. It has many components that make it a superior product to others. My plants with it in planting hole are twice the size of those planted without and u only put it on once for the plant lifetime. I come from years of growing in blackspot disease prone areas (Dallas, Houston). You first spray to kill the disease, then prevent using 2 different systemic products to avoid them building up resistance, good systems last at least 2 wks. I found no Bayer leaf spray product as effective long term. Go buy ladybugs from your local nursery and put them on in spring and during heavy growth periods. They are good killers of most everything but spider mites. My advice is primarily for blackspot so do check with local rosarians for area specific diseases. Purchase a good quality battery sprayer for ease of spray if you must do it often. Suggest My4Sons with the cart. Hose end sprayer much cheaper but irritating, clog, and not as effective my battery sprayer has lasted 10 p++ yrs without any problems beyond 2 battery replacement, which are easily done.My rose gardens have given me a lifetime of pleasure but problems can be discouraging until we work out what works best for us. I am sharing what I know works so you do not become discouraged.
BR

Spray guide
http://www.rosemania.com/Rosemania Spray Reference 2018.pdf

Hi Carla! I'm sorry to inform you there is no cure for Rose-Mania. But here's my two cents on Blackspot. I'm in southern NH, so comparable conditions. I grow about 200 roses, about half are DAs. I have a bunch of minis and those little guys suffer badly from BS.

I've trialed and eliminated a lot of roses over the years and while I'd prefer to grow roses with lovely, healthy, carefree foliage, I have kept a few BS susceptible roses that I just adore and can't bear to part with. There are some roses that just can't tolerate our climate, even with spray. I've tried and tried, but can't make myself like (most) Kordes roses.

I do grow many of my DA's in groupings of 3 or more, closely spaced. Depends on the variety and what garden design you're trying to achieve. In my experience, many newer DA varieties do pretty well for BS resistance. Older ones, not so much.

My anti fungal preventive is propiconizole. I don't spray all my roses, I watch and assess their disease resistance. I use Honor Guard (cheaper than Banner Maxx). I purchase online from Do My Own Pest Control. I use a 4 gallon back pack sprayer. I can only comfortably tote 3 gallons, so I don't fill it all the way. Haven't tried a battery operated model, but I will say that I've thrown away too many cheap sprayers bought at the big box stores...and would urge you to invest in a quality model. I like Echo and Stihl.

I once heard the advice to mix liquid seaweed/fish fertilizer (like Neptune's Harvest) in the tank with your anti fungal to help the spray adhere to the leaves. Not sure if this is good science, but I usually do this and my roses seem to like it.

I spot spray with mancozeb, using a little handheld sprayer if a rose becomes badly infected (unlikely with a regular spray regimen, but hey, life happens).

ratdogheads z5b NH, thank you for your suggestions! How often are you using the honor guard? When do you spray the first application?

Is Mancozeb much stronger? I'm wondering why you only periodically use it and prefer the honor guard.

I'm in the Merrimack Valley, so yes, we have pretty much the same conditions. How often do you water your established DA roses? Someone suggested that I was watering too frequently and this may have contributed to the BS outbreak I had. The rose person at the nursery I go to told me to water every other day unless temps are above 80. When I plant a new rose, I am watering every day. WHat are your suggestions?

Thanks Again! I have so much to learn and really appreciate all of the advice.

Carla :)

Austin Kisses, Thank you! I do appreciate you sharing your knowledge with a newbie like me!

Mancozeb kills existing blackspot but does not prevent it from recurring. Honor Guard is a preventative and protects for 2 weeks. I use this also alternating with Heritage. You guys must have bugs up your way, maybe not as big or bold as we do in Texas, but assuming you do.... don't forget the LadyBugs. They work harder in my garden than I do. Sounds like Ratdogheads has your back and gardens in your area.

BTW Rat, I have to ask how ever did you come up with that call name. Must be a story behind that. :))

Rose Sulphur spray, while I havent had to use it myself is apprently really effective against fungal diseases. You might want to try that if you want to use a more natural approach

I forgot to mention I use the sulfur alternately with the baking soda.

Carla,

Why not grow only all disease resistant roses like those great roses that Vaporvac recommended, ADR winners, and roses Peter Kukielski recommends in his book, "Roses Without Chemicals.". Choose roses that have been scored 55 to 60 under disease resistance, as he determined by his evaluation of them.

There are some large flowered, stunningly beautiful roses, not just landscape roses like that Knock Out series (although Double Pink Knock Out has a classically formed, but smallish bloom), that are recommended by Peter, such as: Wedding Bells, Dark Desire, Centennial, Fiji, Francis Meilland, Garden Delight, Kosmos, La Perla, Poseidon, Out of Rosenheim, and my personal favorite Quietness. I disagree with his 48 rating for disease resistance. I would rate Quietness at 56 for a little powdery mildew some springs/falls only.

Grow disease resistant/free roses and kiss your black spot issues goodbye.

Moses

What austinkisses says about Mancozeb is my understanding. I also think that Mancozeb is perhaps more toxic, so I use it as a last resort. I could be wrong. I am no expert, most of my rose knowledge comes from lurking on this forum, and experience in my own garden. Mancozeb is certainly unpleasant to use, it leaves a yellow residue on the roses and tends clogs my sprayer.

I've heard that BS thrives in temps between 65-75. So I start spraying when my daytime temps are regularly above 70-ish. I endeavor to spray every 10 days, according to directions, but it can be tough to keep that schedule. If is rain forecasted, I may spray a day early or late because it's pointless to spray when there's rain. I like to spray first thing in the morning before the sun is high, and there's no wind. You can damage foliage if you spray in direct sunlight.

How often I water depends on the weather and what's going on in my garden. I don't worry much about watering an established rose, roses are survivors. Of course they're happiest when well watered, and produce more blooms when they are happy. New roses, however, must never dry out, and I always have new roses. I guess on average I do a long watering (with oscillating sprinklers) every 2-3 days, less if it's been rainy. I'll often grab a hose and hand water the new roses between those waterings. Honestly I don't think watering habits affect blackspot to any great degree. When I started out I followed the advice that overhead watering, watering late in the day, etc, would cause fungal disease, but really it's just a fact of life in humid New England.

(austinkisses, ratdogheads is a band reference by an old hippy...what a long strange trip it's been)

I've been underwhelmed by the blackspot resistance of ADR roses. So they defoliate in July instead of June, big whoop.

The biggest issue with watering is how often do you have watering restrictions. Frequent watering grows a shallow root system, so the plant is unprepared to fend for itself.

Moses, you ask a fair question. The problem is, I'm attached to the ones I'm currently growing (except for two zephrines I ripped out last summer) so they will most likely stay.

I 'm attached to the point that I actually talk to them. They're like people to me. My niece came into the garden one day and said, "auntie, are you talking to a plant?" Yes, I'm talking to a plant. :)

I'll definitively take a look at the roses and book you've recommended and keep them in mind when I figure out where the next wing of my rose garden will be. Thank you!

mad_gallica, I've definitely given them more water than they need. We don't normally have restrictions.

Rat dog heads, I got the reference. I always did love the roses on the album covers.

“Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world ...”

when I google rat dog heads up can dogs, then added band and got references to a band in 1995. Hey I am a child of the 60's and we invented the hippy movement I think, not sure about 1995 :))) cute name easy to remember

Carla, how are your roses doing so far? I am chiming in here late.

In the spring I pick up dead leaves from the center of the plant, as they may help promote blackspot. I make sure I have a good layer of mulch. These two steps help prevent blackspot. It gets humid here in the Midwest and water condenses on our plants quite often at night, and it's like growing fungus in a petri dish, so I spray, too.

I spray Daconil when it is cool. Daconil prevents blackspot and botrytis. Roses are susceptible to botrytis in cool weather. Daconil damages roses when sprayed at temps of 78F or above. Cool weather - spray Daconil.

On warm days I spray either Immunox, or Ortho Rose and Flower Disease Control.

Spray at a time when the spray will dry within an hour. If you spray at dusk you generally are encouraging diseases unless the air does not reach dew point and your spray will dry within an hour. Fungicidal sprays generally work when they are dry.

Hi, thanks for sharing your strategy!

So far my roses are doing very well. I started spraying 3 weeks ago. First spray I used bioasvanced anti fungal and two weeks later I used the bioadvanced but mixed in mancozeb. I’m due to spray on Monday and not sure if I should just use bioasvanced or if I should spray with both.

I have a big bag of powdered mancozeb. I used to spray it in the summer if I developed blackspot. It did not seem to help much if blackspot already developed. Then I remembered, that for 10-years I didn't use to develop blackspot. So I stopped spraying mancozeb a few years ago after I got more serious about disease prevention. This more serious effort involved picking up the dead leaves under each plant in the spring, and making sure I had a good layer of cypress mulch.

All that said, I am so happy your garden appears good in Mid to Late-June. It is about now that you could expect blackspot to start developing.

I start spraying as soon as leaves start to develop. I started this year's spray program in early May; our spring is later than yours. With the shadows, this is not the best photo, but this is to show that a clean rose bed, is a more disease resistant rose bed.

Mark, I do clean up very well in the spring and as I prune and weed. I have a thick layer of mulch as well. Last year we had a lot of humidity and many people struggled with black spot. I made the mistake of watering late in the day a couple of times which might have added to the problem which developed.

So you think I should start spraying when the buds break? The reason I waited is the instructions on the fungicide give a maximum number of applications they recommend. If I started spraying in April, I would exceed that number by September.

Here are some of my roses this summer. Looking good so far. Praying they remain this way!

Thank you for sharing. That is an extraordinary display.

I wait until about a week or so after leaf buds break, and there are a few leaves before spraying. Very little spray is used the first few weeks.

We each reside in a challenging climate for growing roses. The shaded areas of a garden will be more susceptible to blackspot, as I am sure you know.

I did not know there is a limit of the number of sprays each year. The Bioadvanced product instructions online do not list a maximum number of applications and says to apply every 7-14 days.

I apply my products once each week, except when we have a dry stretch, then wait to reapply for 14-days or so between applications. Mancozeb clogged my sprayer. While I am not a chemist, my impression is Mancozeb may be more toxic than other fungicidal sprays. For these reasons it is not my preferred fungicidal spray. I would spray it if I get an outbreak, but I am keeping my rose beds cleaner, and with my spray program I can totally prevent blackspot. My rose beds are in full sun, which helps, a lot.

Carla: you garden and color scheme is SOooo Lovely! I love the feminine, romantic look of your roses.

Carla: I wonder if any of the roses and flowers you grow would do well in my area. I’m in Southern California... 6 miles from the Coast.

Hi Ann. Thank you! I love it too. Cool colors are so soothing and feminine. I would be happy to share a list of plants I am growing in the rose garden.

I looked up some of the roses I have and it says they can be grown up to zone 11. If you are correct about your zone, then it would be possible. You could also call David Austin Roses and ask and perhaps reach out to your local rose society.

Yes... I would love to see your list of plants you grow in your garden... they all play together so beautifully... not just in color but also in form.

, Carla, I just want to agree with everyone. Your garden is a dream. Absolutely luscious. Please share

Thank you. It's definitely a dream come true for me as I always wanted a garden and finally have one. I enjoy every minute spent among the roses.

The established roses I'm growing (planted in 2018 or 2019) are:

Princess Alexandra of Kent

Gentle Hermione,

Boscobel

Royal Jubilee

Queen of Sweden

Eden Pretty in Pink

Grandma's blessing

Jubilee Celebration

Outta the Blue

Alnwick

Wedgewood.

The new roses planted this spring are:

James Galway

Scepter'd Isle

Young Lycidas

Eden

I have a number of perennials growing throughout, but in the side garden where there are 14 rose bushes I planted:

Walker's Low catmint

Hidecote lavender

phenomenal lavender

Morning Light maiden grass

Blue fescue beyond blue and fescue cool as ice.

Bloomstruck hydrangea.

peony

In the upper garden there are:

limelight hydrangea

blue skywalker veronica

Phlox (can't find the tag but it's a gorgeous plant.)

Knautia thunder and lightening

geranium Rozanne

Salvia Marcus (not crazy about this plant. Too stiff looking).

Geranium Maxx something ... (Not crazy about it. Small and does not bloom long)

smaller catmint

russian sage

a few annuals

Emerald green arborvitae

red twig dogwood

Carla: beautiful, beautiful garden!

Carla and Vap: I was thinking I had ordered way too many pink and pinkish DA roses and I am not really going to like it. Or they have too many problems that I ignored to learn before I ordered them. Seeing your photos from your personal garden and hearing what you have to say I think maybe I did ok. Today my first DA rose bloomed, The Alnwick Rose. What a pretty rose!

I have not had a chance to read that link, but I have been learning from agricultural and horticultural sites that the fat in properly prepared fish emulsion sprayed on leaves does make the leaves healthier and raises resistance to diseases. In this vein chitin extracted from shells of sea crustaceans, eg shrimp and crab shells, is effective in raising disease resistance when sprayed on leaves as well but is a different way. I have been using these two regularly as foliar spray this season and I definitely see far less BS, whether related to these two substances or not. And the leaves look very healthy too!

Carla, please share more pics of your garden! It’s beautiful! I have the same color scheme as yours, can’t wait for my roses to mature a little! You did a great job!!

Carla: I second CeresMer’s request.

Katyajini .... Thank you :)

You're going to love them all! Did you order Boscobel? I love that rose so much.

I think having roses all within one color from the palest to the brightest hue can really work well. The pale pinks look great with blue and purple flowers planted nearby and the brilliant fuchsia of the knautia thunder and lightening and the phlox is stunning. I planted two types of pincushion flowers when I first planted the roses two years ago and they looked beautiful with the pinks as well but they did not survive. I think one was called "Fama Blue" and the other may have been "butterfly blue".

CeresMer, I will definitely share more pics when they begin blooming again. I just pruned them all this weekend so not much to see at the moment.

I understand your anticipation! I recently looked at pictures from 2018 when I planted many of the roses and it reminded me of how far they have come. They were so tiny! You will be amazed by how fast they grow.