I started on this forum as a newbie (actually, still am a newbie) and have never felt anything but supported.

Tigereye, if you have specific instances where you felt like you had your "head bitten off," can you please point to them?

It's always hard to interpret "tone" on the internet, so I like being able to review/consider times when things have come across the wrong way - that way I can make sure to try and avoid the mistake.

Alana and Vaporvac, instagram is great for seeing pictures (which I totally need right now, lol!) but not so great for substantive discussion of roses (in my experience so far). I think you can use it and still participate on the forums --I do (at least at this time of year when I'm garden scheming).

I'll say it again with different words: the posting formats common on the internet combine strangely with human psychology to create a negative spiral. If we want to stop our online community from being torn apart, we need to be aware of that tendency, and act to counter it. For example, here a simple disagreement/misunderstanding has morphed into a bad situation. One way to avoid this might be to 1) re-read the post that made us upset, and try to imagine what other meanings that person might have intended beyond our initial interpretation, or what life circumstances might have caused them to say such a thing, then 2) check our language for aggressive content that might cause more negativity before we post a response. I can't claim that I always follow these little principles, but I am trying.

I know, Alana. I counted and at least 70% of my roses are OGR or at least what I'd call "Heritage" such as Hybrid Musks and the early HTs that have that graceful habit, as well as some Austins. I look for roses for landscape value, fragrance and bloom, embracing all its forms, but the romance and history of old roses is spell-binding when I think about it. It's like holding a museum piece in my hand everyday! And knowing the stories of found roses is so touching. My one problem with posting is where to ask questions about an obviously new rose bred by someone who has a lot of older, but not OGR roses, such as Burling's Flamingo Dancer or Jerabek's poly Wee Butterflies. I just somehow feel that folks here would be more likely to know about these sorts of roses.

slumgullion and KS, that was so well put and really extends beyond this thread. On a positive note, someone must be reading the ARF or we wouldn't be having such a lively discussion! : ) This thread was definitely NOT cross-posted! : D

Good point Vaporvac! Ha!

Vaporvac - To answer your question, NO, it was not a problem on here before Houzz changed everything in 2018.

Jackie

This isn't the first time I read this type of post, and I agree with Lily.

When you create a post, you have an option to make your post visible to maximum 3 forums. I like to take rose pics and share them with friends in the forums. Even though I'm not a beginner rose growers, I always hesitate to make my post visible to Antique Rose forum because I'm worry some of my rose pics aren't antique enough to be shared in the Antique Rose forum so I just skip it.

Many times a post started out talking about modern roses, but then there are more deeper questions that are benefited from the answers of antique rose growers. I hope antique rose growers will always generously share your knowledge and don't feel offend by some cross-posts that may benefit from your vast knowledge. Helen

I deleted the Antique Rose Forum from following, therefor I won't see any posts unless you crosspost.

If Austins that are not OGR still fit into the Antique forum, then between Austins and Antiques, that's most of what I grow lol. I have some newer HTs but I've realized that most of the HTs that I grow are Austins because I prefer that form of flower. I also love Antiques due to the history plus Teas, Noisettes, and some others do so well here.

I can see how Newbies could be confused about what goes where. I was too at first. Now with Houzz directing things into categories and suggesting things, one can easily end up in the wrong forums or even on ancient threads. I have seen many postings on very old threads recently (which I could care less) but my point is, they are popping up and people aren't realizing they are old threads. So one can see how easy it is to be unaware of where or what thread/forum you are posting on. So newer folks are probably doubly confused.

I do feel blessed that we have both forums on here and we can all benefit from each other's knowledge and experience. I've learned many things on plant forums that dont even have to do completely with plants- just reading and communicating with people from different cultures and parts of the world.

Although sometimes (okay a lot of times) Houzz is the devil for technical issues, not a ton of rose forums exist and of those, hardly any are broken down into so many rose sub forums (which apparently could be good or bad, depending how one looks at it lol).

I do find a dedicated Antique Rose Forum a special pleasure.

Titian and kaleidoscope eyes , if you like to message me I’m happy to direct you their way on Instagram. Or if you are in the app my name is Jen.lynn.r And I’ll forward you their pages from there.

Alana I’ve made some great friends on Instagram in the garden world ! While it’s true there not a forum convo , there is a lot more one on one convo available. Before I even moved here I followed a lovely Lady who really has an eye for mixing succulents and desert plants in with her roses . I thought it was very beautiful and through us commenting we were able to meet and see her garden in person. It’s much quicker and easier to share photos as well and you can search a hashtag of a favorite rose or word and all the pics come up. It’s very helpful and opens up so many gardens! :)

I have also found such inspiration and met so many wonderful people through Instagram. I hesitated for a long time to join, but am so glad I did! my Instagram name is @mrs.rosylady...there are lots of pictures of my roses and garden there.

I also really enjoy these forums, but posting pictures here is much more difficult, so I don't very often.

Lilyfinch you've made a very strong case for giving Insta a try!

Hey all, Houzz gives people the option to post their discussion in up to three relevant topics. If you find there are posts that are miscategorized, just flag them as miscategorized and our team can take a look. Thanks.

Hi Emily

Thanks, but evidently the flagging option isn't working that well to keep the topics appropriately segregated.

Can't the "choose up to 3 relevant topics" screen be updated to provide an appropriate description of the content of each forum? With perhaps a suggestion to only post to forums that the poster believes are the most relevant?

Also, what about the people who report that Houzz is cross-posting on its own, *without* the person who wrote the post choosing any additional forums?

Thanks for any help you can provide...

Another possibility might be to change the name from "Antique Roses" to "Heritage Roses" or "Old Garden Roses" -- lower in the alphabet, so that people who post here are really actively meaning to do so rather than just encountering the first category listed with "roses" in the title?

*Note that a name change might cause deep consternation, and it would be worthwhile to float the idea on the forum before taking any action

Lol k s this made me laugh . Then there would be a whole other post coming up. Well I hope we can all just post and us regulars will tread carefully and try to keep antiques clean . Don’t want to scare away any newbies and don’t want to push away those full of knowledge either . ❤️

G’day Folk. Been lurking, which I mostly do these days. This topic is not new here, and I felt like sharing my thoughts Even pre-HOUZZ in the days of "Spike", there was one occasion when the debate was solely over; should Antique Roses include Austin roses, or only OGR's.

I only grow about 20 roses on my own property now, lack of space. I am however the Volunteer Rosarian at the Summerland Ornamental Gardens and responsible for hundreds of roses of all types including a large and expanding collection of early English roses which John_Ca is helping me put together. There are also many OGRs and Ramblers, etc. scattered throughout the 15 acres and we hope to add more in future. I have posted about that a few times over the past couple of years including images of Austins and photos of unidentified species and OGR roses that I wished to identify. The folk here were a huge help with that issue and the task is not finished.

However, the biggest addition to the rose collection is a three year project, now going into year three, to build what we are calling The Canadian Heritage Rose Garden which will showcase roses bred by Canadians to suit cold climates. This will include very rare roses bred in the first half of the 20th century, many of the early Morden and Explorer series roses, many now rare and many from current Canadian hybridizers such as Jalbert, and Mander, as well as a collection of Paul Barden's hardier roses, particularly the ones bred from Austins and OGRs. For clarity, Paul is now an American, but was raised in Ontario and went to University there. When we finish this collection this summer, it will be a natioanlly significant collection, unique in North America.

Therein lies the rub, I have thought many times about posting specifically about this new garden, but none of the roses in the collection fit the classification Austin's or OGR's which are the roses most folk regular to this forum are interested in. So, I have had a dilemma. This is the forum I almost invariably frequent, albeit largely lurking now. I have been a member since 2001. I have even met and visited with a few regulars in the US due to my time spent here. I seldom look at the roses forum, this is my home forum. But the big rose garden project that I am now project manager for does not contain a singe rose variety that would fit here if we stick strictly to the forum classification topics. Yet, many of the roses in this garden are definitely what anyone would call Heritage Roses and a few, have even been on the "study rose list" Isabella Skinner, aka Victorian Memory a case in point.

So, what to do? I have until now made the decision that my project garden does not fit in this forum. This in spite of the fact that I feel many of you would be extremely interested in the project and perhaps even consider visiting the garden some day. So, I am posting about it now, as this seems to be a thread where the information and consideration might serve a useful purpose. The garden is situated on land belonging to the Canadian Government, but is managed and cared for by a volunteer group called Friends of the Summerland Ornamental Gardens.

I am inserting a link to a document entitled The Canadian Heritage Rose Garden which I prepared for the new Canadian government property manager to explain why the garden and roses in it are important from a heritage respective. It is a largely a compilation of three excellent articles from the Canadian media on the history and heritage of Canadian bred roses. I have not shared it with others before, but feel it might be useful and interesting as a reference document for this discussion.

I would love to hear your thoughts. Would this be a stand alone topic that you think I should have gone ahead and posted about when I was mulling things over in the past? Or, does it definitely not belong on this forum? If the consensus is that it does belong, then I will likely consider posting about it as well as the other topic appropriate roses in the collection in future.

Cheers, Rick

Rick , this is a perfect example of why it’s such a shame to lose valuable information and photos and work all because of the feeling of offending a few people who can’t scroll by or recognize that what you as a person and FRIEND have something to share . Please please do post it and share your hard work with us . I know I look forward to it !!

I think your postings belong here Rick. Thank you for all you do. Living in Alaska for 33 years, I was always seeking out Canadian Heritage Roses and belonged to the Canadian Rose Society for many years. I found it much more my cup of tea than the ARS which was more HT focused. So here we go again.

Rick, this seems like the kind of thing that would be of interest to the Antique Roses forum. It seems like people here are broadly interested in the preservation of rose history -- not just the ARS designated OGRs. Again, I think this conversation went a bit off the rails because the original complaint had to do with Houzz and how it works, not with individual posters. Please do make a dedicated post for your project, since interested people may have stopped reading this thread.

Definitely start a new post here! But should he cross-post??? I will say as an avid reader of both forums that many people "over there" are open to older varieties, but just don't know about them. Were you able to source IS/VM and the older Canadian roses? I remember some discussion about that? Thank you for the fabulous links, btw. I seem to recall Peter Schneider carrying a Preston Lilac, but didn't know she bred roses,as well.

I'm another vote to say Yes, Rick, please do start a thread here on this topic! And I agree with Vaporvac, I think this particular topic does fit in both Rose forums and would be worth cross-posting.

Rick...thank you for sharing your thoughts, and perfectly illustrating why it's important to embrace ALL posts and posters, regardless of whether they "fit" perfectly into this forum or not.

I would love to hear more about the Summerland Garden, and would welcome a post on the subject. And as a resident of the Seattle area, the wife of a Canadian, and an avid rose lover, I would be very interested in coming to visit the garden!

New, old, modern: I just love rose porn. Not enough posts on any of the Rose forums. I have to go to insta and FB for my fix. Why not be inclusive? Get things jazzed up. I don’t have many OGR because they are harder to find in nurseries, but love visiting the lovies from Morcom Rose Garden, some from 1800s. And I do follow this forum. My preference: please post MORE, not less.

Jeri, I try to email you but it seems it is disabled.

It seems like she may have left the site. Gee I sure hope not.

I hope Jeri wont leave . Last few weeks, Jackie posted a lot of beautiful roses. But then i realized something is different...Jeri's absence. I miss her and i thought perhaps she is busy or sick but in my heart i wanted to email her to make sure she is alright. Now, this changes everything. I hope she comes back. I miss her and it is not the same without her.

I think that @jerijen may have deleted many of her comments also. Or maybe she just made one. I thought there was more than one originally.

She posted today on the other forum. She does that from time to time but not a regular. I'm not either I just like to read about roses. I may try and contact her through that site but unless you shut off notifications for this post she should be updated on this post. I just hope she needs time.

Vaporvac, she only commented twice, and they are both there. This was took out of proportion. I think thst Tigerseye person was acting very silly , rude, and didn't read anything that was actually written. Just what they wanted to read, and took off with that. Instead of reading the entire post someone had written. So ignorant for people to act like that. I'm sure she(Jeri) will be back, give her time.

Good to know. My head was spinning during this post I could barely read some of it was so upsetting.

There were several snarky remarks towards Jeri's comments; not only Tigerseye. I don't blame her for leaving but I hope she comes back. Probably not worth it though, since not much goes on here now regarding antique roses. Too bad.

We Antique rose lovers are still here. Some are doing garden prepping.

We're here! Losses like this are especially bad for us newbies trying desperately to absorb all the shared knowledge. So much isn't in books and seeing these beauties "in person" is priceless. Jeri seems to have migrated, at least temporarily, to the other site with a few recent postings. We've also lost Bart over there, but it isn't a dedicated antique forum either and has had its own unwarranted drama. Nothing's perfect, but I prefer this site for some reason.

The good news is that the kind & polite folks who use the Roses forum (which is 99% of them, of course including many folks who are interested in antiques, and also modern roses) immediately stopped automatically cross posting to here when it became obvious that it was creating a problem (which was all caused by Houzz making cross posting some sort of default position). So, the original problem appears to have stopped, and now we have 2 forums to enjoy and post on - separately!

Jackie

Hello my friends, I'm sorry that I've been away, which was due to the extreme weakness I've had lately. I can't promise to be a regular poster, that's out of my hands, but I do so want to be as much of a support as I can to the antique rose forum, a place that has been close to my heart for so long. I most sincerely hope that Jeri will be back because to me she was the heart of the forum for many years, and she really is not replaceable. At the same time I've come to realize, rather painfully, that situations change, and we all must do what's best for our physical and emotional welfare.

It's been a very dry winter here, and for many of us overall weather patterns have changed, and not for the better, but I'm a little hopeful as rain is forecast for tomorrow here and possibly a further few days after that. Of the roses that have survived in my garden quite a few are showing buds, which is delightful to see. A few more tea roses, such as Mlle. de Sombreuil and Le Vesuve, seem to also now be dying, but I'm determined to focus on my rather few remaining roses which hopefully this spring will remind me of how lovely the old roses can be, and why it is that we cherish them so much.

Thank you for that, Ingrid. It is never the same without you. So glad to hear rain is headed your way. Obviously, I wish the loveliest people did not suffer these health conditions. Wishing for the best for you.

I wish the same and thank you for checking in before we sent out the squadrons to check on you!

Jeri get your a** back here! Who’s going to tempt me to buy gorgeous roses that haven’t been tested in cold zones? My Mel’s Heritage and Pulich Children need some new friends 🤣💕

JERI!!!!!!!Been following her advice for years. Can't be without her!

Jeri, not to put too fine a point on it, we actually love you. You are the earth mother of the old roses, and your children need you - right here.

Is it possible that Houzz could add to the forum header instead of "Antique Roses" it could read "Antique Roses - roses that existed before 1867"? And the "Roses" forum header could read "Roses - all roses". This might make it more clear to participants.

Dingo, we should talk about these old roses you grow, as we are close in zone!

Jeri is invaluable to the rose communities, we love reading her posts! Please come back!

Jeri is back already, if you look at other posts on this forum. IMO THIS thread should STOP being bumped up, as it contains some really negative stuff.

Jackie

Maybe we can just delete this post at this point.

I see the comment about Strawberry Chicago has been removed. I'm sorry to hear she got jumped on. I wondered why I no longer see posts from her. She was such a wealth of information. It's a pity she's gone. I also miss Jon in Wessex. He has/had such a beautiful garden.

Nik the Greek was great.

I miss Nick too and would love to know how he handles scale on his citrus. Campanula was fun and is sorely missed. Michael G from the mountains (foothills?) was hilarious with his rendition of Marie Pavie and I miss Lou from Texas who has been gone a long time. And Fig Insanity.

Cath

Use an oil spray on it cat?