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Wish Us Luck...Getting an Appraisal for Refinancing

6 years ago

After doing some research we've found that we could save significantly on our monthly payments AND our interest payments if we refinanced to a 15 year mortgage and rolled in payoff of one car and our home equity line of credit. We live in a very affordable area, so both what we pay and what we would pay are well within our means. Only catch is our house has to appraise for at least 15% more than the $295k we purchased it for just under 2 years ago.


In theory that should be completely possible. The house was purchased as a foreclosure. We had some strong competition even then with the house in slightly distressed condition. Even after we went under contract there were higher offers coming in, and it's only our luck that the bank didn't choose to entertain one of those while we were working through the closing process. Also since purchase we have put nearly 100k into the house in new roofing, restored roofing, masonry repairs, heating and cooling repairs, elect5rical upgrades, appliances, repairing interior water damage, and replacing items that were stripped out of the house before purchase.


The challenge: nothing has sold for more than 305k in our area in the last year, 310k in the last 2 years, and 365k if we go back 4 years. We live in a historic neighborhood (not a locally designated Historic District) where houses range in size from 1000 sf bungalows to 5000 sf manor houses and lot sizes from 4000 sf narrow city lots to 2 acre parcels, and everything in between, and sometimes all in the same block.


The smaller houses have more frequent sales and have been doing very well in recent years. Some have also been subject to flips. Our last house in the same neighborhood sold for 260k two years after we purchased it for 210k with fairly minimal investment on our part (paint, carpet, etc). The larger houses, more architectural significant houses, or houses on larger lots on the other hand hardly ever go on the market. Most of them have been in the same hands since at least the recession, many since the 1990s, and even a few have been in the same family since the 1960s or 40s. A handful have sold as foreclosures in recent years. All sold fast and for prices higher than asking price.


So we basically have a house with no real recent comps. When we purchased in 2018 the appraisal noted that there were no comps also, but we sold within range of where other top properties were selling for. Instead we have the closest comparables:


1. Two houses, both 1000 sf larger and with 2 additional bedrooms than ours located only 4 blocks away and across the street from each other. Both sold almost a year ago for $265k, or a paltry $60 per square foot for various reasons including dark maze like basements, kitchens and baths that hadn't been touched in decades, a small lot in one case, and a backyard that was one giant chain link surrounded concrete pad in the other. They are also separated from our house by a major street and in an area where houses have always sold for discounted rates over our side.


2. A house in the next block that is similar is style, design, and layout, that sold for $305k last week. In the listing it would seem to be larger than our house and with 2 more bedrooms, and even with a finished basement. But we know from having toured it and compared it with the tax diagrams that its actually 20% smaller, the 5th bedroom is actually the master bedroom sitting room, the en-suite bath is connected to one of the smaller bedrooms, and the finished basement claims are pretty dubious. Taking that all into account it's actually in line with where our house might work out, but there's no higher sale to compare against.


Our appraisal visit was today. The appraiser initially thought we were looking to sell our home, as was concerned that there was no way for us to get an attractive price with the recent sales. Knowing our purpose though he thought he would be able to cast a wider net and find some properties that help ours in the neighboring communities. It will be interesting to see what he comes back with in the report.


But it also has me wondering what sort of situation we would ever be if we were to sell. We aren't looking to leave in the near future, and it seems like the market is definitely there for a good price, but unless we have a cash offer it looks like the appraisal could always be a major wild card.


Has anyone else dealt with unique sales and challenging appraisals?




Comments (3)

  • 6 years ago

    Every sale is challenging. As a retired appraiser, let me state that your appraisal on this property will always be a complex appraisal. You appraiser will earn their fee. Just because a house next door sold for "x" doesn't mean that it is a comparable property. If your home has a lot of updates or unusual features, the appraiser will be forced to expand the area of focus in order to find properties that include similar features or conditions.

    I've owned historical homes myself. I remembering refinancing one right after I had renovated it in order to remove the PMI. In that example, it is imperative that you provide a complete list of improvements to the appraiser.

    I have doubts that the appraiser will be able to match your numbers given that you want to roll additional debt into the equation. If you just wanted to lower your interest rate, it shouldn't be difficult.

    As a person with some life experience, I would suggest that you consider keeping your 30 year loan and saving the extra payment in a separate account. You never know when you might lose your job and need the lower payment. Getting rid of the home equity debt isn't a bad thing. I wouldn't advise rolling the car loan into the equation. Once you have the appraisal, you can go over it with your mortgage broker and determine the best course of action.

  • 6 years ago

    I've definitely notices that historic homes tend to follow their own logic for pricing. Despite being older they also can sometimes create their own market and sell for much more than neighboring comps would suggest.


    In our last house hunt we seriously considered a 3000 sf 1929 3 bedroom 1.5 bath house that was one of only a few similarly sized and aged houses in a neighborhood that got stalled by the depression and didn't really fill out until the 1960s. It was for sale for 420k which was 30k higher than any other house in the neighborhood, many of which had more bedrooms and bathrooms and some even had more square footage. It had been on the market for over a month so we took a chance and offered 390k. We were beat by an offer for 415k the next week later and the house appraised. Even though the house had a detached garage and a single shower that a tall person couldn't even stand up in, I can only explain that the house's near original character and great condition made up the difference.


    Another house in our neighborhood that we considered was a 4500 sf foreclosure with 4 bedrooms and 3 and two half baths on an acre parcel. The house hadn't been lived in in 10 years, the heating, plumbing, and HVAC were all defunct, damaged, or missing. and the roof had severe leaks. We estimated 100-150k to make it habitable and 300k to get it restored. We estimated it might be worth 400-450k in great condition, but it would have the same challenge appraising we currently have. The house listed for 130k and got at least 2 dozen offers in a single week. I had never seen anything like it, with 2-5 showings at the same time constantly for that week. The winning offer was 280k and it got adjusted down to 250k during the appraisal. Our 180k offer didn't stand a chance.


    The close by house that sold for 305 probably could have sold for much more if they had better managed their time on the market. The house started for sale by owner at a very unreasonable 412k in fall 2018. After 7 months on the market and no movement they finally got an agent and lowered the price to a still unreasonable 389k. With some heavy marketing they got I believe a near asking price offer but the house appraised for I heard in the mid 320s. The deal fell through and they lowered the price 20k. They got another offer than again fell through at appraisal. They waited 4 months later to finally drop their price down in the appraisal range. By then it was winter, and houses don't sell here in winter. The last 2 years there have only been 3 of +/- 25 sales closed in December, January, or February. They had also moved and were motivated to sell. So they probably ended up getting 10-20k less than if they had just priced their house right.


    I feel like knowing our market we probably could get 340k or more with the house prepped to sell and timed in the spring or summer. The demand to have once of these houses definitely seems to be there. The challenge would always be in the appraisal.


    As far as what we are considering in refinancing: Currently all three debts add up to $2060 per month excluding property taxes and insurance, with $1285 of that being the mortgage. If we roll in our car and HELOC for a 15 year loan, our payment would only be $1960. So for the first two and a half years we would be saving on payments while also getting ahead on equity and saving interest. After those 2.5 years (the payment period left on the car) then we would be paying $360 more per month than we would without the refinance. But by that point we will also be $7000 ahead in paying our debts and equity than we would if we kept our current course. I understand the added risk, but we are still staying way under our current affordability. To be able to pay through 1/4 of our current property debt in 5 years seems worth it.

  • 6 years ago

    Just a quick update: The house appraised at $340k. Not as high as we hoped it would be worth before the nearby comp closed 20k lower than expected. But just high enough to make the refinance numbers work. The appraiser ended up pulling two of the 6 comps from quite far away. One was 2 miles away in the same community, the other was 4 miles away in another municipality and school district.


    While we were surprised that they pulled from that far, it's not surprising in that the house is a near twin to ours as far as house size, lot size, style, and configuration.