Software
Houzz Logo Print
phaewryn

Suggestions for 4' tall hill left after removing retaining wall

6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago

This hill is in South-Eastern Vermont, zone 5a, elevation 554', part sun/shade, morning-noonish sun then it's behind the trees and filtered (you're looking due west when facing this hill - the sun sets through the talls pines you see in the background). About 4-5 years ago, we ripped out a woody needled groundcover that I think was yew, that grew on the ground like juniper. It came back the year after, but we kept ripping it out and now it's gone. What's left now is this weird thick mat of fine roots that is hard to dig a hole through, and the only thing succeeding here are these dainty little Northern Maidenhair ferns that grew in one big patch. I dug a few of them up and moved them to other spots to see if they would be transplantable, and they seemed to do fine, so I guess I either need to find more of this seed (or however ferns come) or figure out what else could possibly grow here. We tried to put rhododendrons here but they all tried to die, and as soon as we moved them, they came back to life, so the ground here is toxic or something. There is some galvanized sheet metal buried in this hill (looks like that's how they made the hill stay in place when they built their retaining wall which we ripped out). Could that be leaching toxins? Could the old groundcover have been one of those thing that kills other plants by sending out chemicals? Maybe we just need better soil to plant them into since they did better once we moved them to another area on the property that has a little topsoil on it? Maybe it's too acidic from all the pine/hemlock needles? This hill started out much further out, and we've been digging it out and back for the past 3 years. A little to the left in these photos, that azalea was twice the size it is but we've been hacking it back with a pick-axe and ripping the roots out then digging out the sand and moving it to other low areas in the lawn. We now we have this really steep sheer drop-off of nothing but sand where that azalea was removed/cut back (you touch it and it slides down into a pile at your feet). The whole yard has been in a pine/hemlock grove for centuries. We've been slowly cutting down very large pines and hemlocks, and slowly getting some grass in the lawn (previously no grass, just the pine needle litter you'd expect in a pine grove in the forest - lime helped), but we're thinking this hill is going to be too steep to mow. Ideas? Maybe we could throw some perennials between the ferns if we pick-axe the mat layer out everywhere that is barren (as you can see we did that in several spots and filled them with our lawn sand (we don't have soil at this house, just 0-5" of topsoil in some places then pure glacial sand below it (like playbox sand, pure sand, no gravel), but if we do that, it will just erode down into the newly acquired flat lawn area. Water rolls right off the top of the mat layer, and erosion with the sand is a problem in other areas of the property where this mat layer doesn't exist if we rake the water-repelling layer of pine and hemlock needles up. We need some ideas that can work with our sand (we're open to adding compost/manure/peat/etc to holes we dig when we plant stuff). We just removed two hemlocks from the right side of this area, so now it has more light and less hemlock needles. What it may come down to is another (better) retaining wall, but thought I'd post here and see if anyone has other alternatives since retaining walls are so expensive. Anyone know of acid-loving evergreen ground covers that like acidic sand hillsides and part sun/shade?






The sand that is what's under the mat layer is shown at the bottom (we've been cutting this hill back for more flat lawn area for a few years now).


The mat layer that holds all the sand in place (with some junk grass that's trying to grow in it):


More photos of whole area:

From the back door looking left (towards the shed):


From back door panning right from far left showing the hill:


From back door panning right:


From right, looking behind house to left, showing the hill:


Backing up a bit more to the far right, turning more to right:


From left, looking behind house on the right (back door shown):


From a little more from the front right:


Panning right from right, towards front yard:


The area on the left still under construction (digging stumps out, will have fire pit here halfway between house and shed):


Comments (12)

  • 6 years ago

    Jute erosion netting

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    So would we shape the sand how we want, then cover it with jute erosion netting, then place topsoil on top of the netting, and cut holes in the jute to plant things? Or do we shape the sand, try to get topsoil to stick to it somehow (maybe make it into mud so it will stick?), and then put jute netting over both, cut holes in it to plant stuff, and cover that with mulch?

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    Forget for a moment about what you could or should do. When starting you had to have some vision or goal in mind, or you would have just left the hill alone. What were you trying/hoping to accomplish? We need to see not just the hill, but the surroundings. Step back a ways and give us a big view. Or take it in slightly overlapping shots while YOU STAND IN ONE PLACE with the camera.

  • 6 years ago

    @Yardvaark It's my partner's house. I don't think he thought this through to the very end when he started. His only goal was the "cut back the hill for more flat lawn in the back and use the sand to make the lawn level up front".


    I can take more pics when I'm there next time. I wish I had before pics so you could see the difference. This used to be a very closed-in mostly grassless pine and hemlock grove with a house plopped down on the edge of it. There were trees everywhere, very little sun reached the back (west) or side (north) of the house. Once he got the trees removed (some of the big 100-200 yr old pines were professionally removed, but we've done the hemlocks ourselves), the grass started growing, and once he saw he could have a real lawn, he hasn't stopping digging and moving the sand around. It started as digging out the stumps, and it's been non-stop digging anything that can be dug and spreading the sand in other places for over 4 years. It's only now that he's gotten close to the line of driveway reflectors that he used to mark where he wanted to stop digging back to that he's considered that a sheer drop off of sand under an azalea that is floating at eye level (with roots sticking out at chest level) isn't going to be easy to landscape.


    He saved the last couple of Hemlock trunks we took down so he has 6-7' logs he can possibly use to make a retaining wall, but I'm getting the twitchy (skeptical) eye looking at them. I'll take better pics next time I'm there. It's truly a landscaping nightmare.


    He will not invest much money into landscaping. It took 5 years of deliberation to buy the birch trees he'd wanted all that time, and only then because they were discounted at the end of the season (the road is called Birch Lane). He refuses to buy any annuals (waste of money, he says). Perennials need to be 95% sure to survive and come back, so he will only buy 1 or 2 plants a year until he's sure it will come back (so creeping phlox, virginia spiderwort, chives, chocolate mint, periwinkle (which is invasive but he doesn't care), hostas, solomon's seal, lily of the valley, azaleas, rhododendrons, maidenhair ferns, lilacs, and day lilies are the only proven plants so far - most of them shade plants and he's reducing the shade more and more). The exception is if I can find it for free (like on freecycle) and the western red cedars he planted for privacy screening after we removed the hemlocks from the back. Something that can be started from seed would be great since seed is cheap, I can just buy it for him and he's not stressed out about wasting his money on things that won't be successful - with a caveat that he's also reluctant to water things as much as they really need because "water isn't free".


    So, that's what I'm working with, and I admit I am pretty over my head right now because I have no idea how to deal with the sand. The erosion problem is, in my mind, a serious one, but apparently the town doesn't mind that part of his hill (in the front, the road frontage, not back here where this project is) washes out into the road when it rains hard, so we're concentrating on making the back yard nicer since the front hill is basically impossible to fix without a huge investment in retaining wall (which he will not do - he already invested $30,000 in replacing the windows and he doesn't plan to keep this house since it is just his first starter home). I'll get more pics!

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    Jules, what would help a lot is to take pictures that show a large amount of surroundings. It's very hard to orient one's self with close ups of dirt and weeds. Especially, try to get the house in the picture, too, with the hill, so we can have some perspective about the scale of things. Right now, it looks like a hill of dirt in no man's land so it makes one wonder, "Why bother?"

    Jules (5a S.E. VT.) thanked Yardvaark
  • 6 years ago

    Arctostaphylos uva-ursi, Bearberry could be perfect for this slope. Hopefully it is a common groundcover in your parts which could make it Cheap and easily available.

    https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=j380


  • PRO
    6 years ago

    I agree. Bearberry sounds perfect. You may need to add little or no topsoil.

  • 6 years ago

    @Yardvaark, I added more photos to the post, as you requested.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    I see how a small "cliff" has been created. You guys would need to put some soil back to create a smooth slope, or add a retaining wall. But I think slope would be your better bet. Anyplace else in the yard you need to get rid of soil?

  • 6 years ago

    @Yardvaark yes, we plan to build a new retaining wall and fire pit down in the cliff area, but we need to plant the part more behind the back door, the original sloped area I posted. We got some juniper cheap at Walmart to try (it was on clearance) and we will keep an eye out for the bearberry.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    Hopefully, it's a low growing juniper. You might try bearberry from seed as that is a known possible way to get it. Ebay is the go-to place for oddball seeds & plants.