So beautiful! I love the bottom one most and the one in the middle. Keep us updated!!

Very interesting indeed, Chris. These ancient cultivars reveal much about their genetics by raising their offspring.

That third one is a very pleasing color and shape. I wonder if any of them will be remontant? (I doubt it, but who knows)

Paul, I was wondering the same thing. We will see.

So if a rose descends from a damask perpetual, but is not "perpetual", would it just be considered a damask?

@chris209 (LI, NY Z7a)

"So if a rose descends from a damask perpetual, but is not "perpetual", would it just be considered a damask?"

Yes, pretty much. You can't call it a "perpetual" if it doesn't repeat!

Very lovely, and I like the thin white veins on the first one. If one were to cross one of these with a remontant rose am I right in assuming the offspring might also be remontant?

One more opened today. Very similar to rose #1 in my earlier post. Sorry the pic is blurry.

My favorite is still # 3 which opened another bud today.

Ingrid, I'm not knowledgeable enough about it to answer your question. I do remember reading on Paul's old site that he had issues getting repeat bloom from antique repeaters crossed with modern repeaters. That the genes may not be compatible, or something along those lines. He'd be able to explain better.

@ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

In the years I worked in breeding with these types, there was much evidence that the repeat blooming gene(s) in the Damask group was different from the gene(s) in the modern (China derived) group, and they acted as unique traits. Crossing a Damask Perpetual with a Modern repeating shrub was likely to give you nothing but once-blooming offspring. (In the first generation) You could work it through in subsequent generations, but it would be a lot of work, and you'd likely end up with a bunch of repeat blooming shrubs that didn't inform you which set of genes was at work, and that would only complicate future breeding decisions.

The short answer: Its complicated!

Your seedlings are beautiful!

Do you prepare your seeds for sowing? In the past, I have sowed mine in pots outside in November or December, then brought them inside in late February or March; however, this year I did not collect hips and sow seeds until March and only one seed from an Autumn Damask germinated. Sad to say, that seedling died of damping off. Do you use sterile soil?

I cannot think of anything much more exciting than raising a new Damask perpetual.

Lindsey

Hi Lindsey,

Thanks! I do it pretty much as described in the below link. No need to bring them inside at any point.

winter sowing

I tend to use plastic tubs instead of milk cartons. The kind that cookies come in or like what organic baby lettuce is in at the grocery store. Once they've produced a couple of leaves, I carefully transfer them to individual pots. It really is lots of fun and very easy. I'm sure I'd have a better success rate with a more elaborate setup, but I get more than enough seedlings this way to play around with.

-Chris

Hello Chris,

Thank you. I will try it--at this point, the only Damask Perpetuals I have are AD and QSBM which aren't great seed producers. but I will include some Gallicas and a couple of Moss roses. I see that you are several hundred miles north of me; however, our zones are the same, and if fall sowing outside works well for you, it should work well for me. I will try the peat and perlite mixture to prevent early seedling death.

I must get Indigo--I am already on a waiting list for it, although I have so many roses already that I hesitate to import a new one lest it bring disease with it. Are there any other Damask Perpetuals you would recommend?

Lindsey

What a wonderful variety of seedlings Indigo produces--they do raise interesting thoughts about Indigo's genotype.

Lindsey

Paul,

I am not surprised that the repeat-blooming trait of Damasks differs from that of China roses. I have heard the same about certain human traits like lactose tolerance and blonde hair which appear to have arisen independently in different populations.

How would you rate the chances of getting a Perpetual Damask from a self-pollinated hip of the Autumn Damask or the Portland Rose? Or perhaps another of the true Damask Perpetuals?

Lindsey

The last seedling opened up today. This one more than the others has some of the intense coloration of its parent. Reminds me of a rugosa or the apothecary rose.

What a wonderful variety Indigo produces. I assume all came from open pollinated hips--any thoughts on whether they were all self-pollinated, and if not, what the pollen parent(s) may have been.

Lindsey

I was surprised to see a bud on one of these seedlings this morning. I guess one, at least, does have the ability to repeat. Happily, it's my favorite of the batch; seedling #3 above.

You did well. I'm inspired by the possibility of raising a Damask Perpetual. Indigo sounds like a good seed parent. I must get one.

Lindsey

They're all lovely. I wish Indigo had wanted to live here.

My favorite of the bunch began flowering this morning. Lovely, strong fragrance. It's been planted into the garden and I'm excited to see what it will do.

Lovely pictures. Do you have any new Damask seedlings this year? I had only one hip on the Autumn Damasks last year and a bird or something else got it shortly before I would have picked it. Am hoping for more hips this year--it's been so dry pollination should be better.

Lindsey

Wow, Chris! This is such a wonderful thread. I can hardly wait to see what happens next! Your Damask Perpetual (?) is beautiful—the colors, the form,... . How would you describe the fragrance? Remontant is a huge score! Please keep posting updates. I am glued to the next chapter. Carol

My Indigo is cheering you on!

Thanks @portlandmysteryrose! I am not great at describing fragrances. I definately got a lot of lemon from it.

Lemon! Yum. Many Gallicas smell like lemon to my nose. It is one of my favorite rose scents. I think your new Damask is a very special little rose. How exciting that it’s planted in your garden now! You can watch it mature and grow into its own. You must be pretty darn thrilled! Carol

I must have the wrong Gallicas. I don't think any of mine smell like lemon. My Lamarque does, and Hickory Hill Noisette is similar.

Lindsey

@lplantagenet7AVA my Marianne is very citrusy. Always reminds me of grapefruit, but maybe the grapefruit coloration is doing that to my brain :)