Thank you. Not sure how my response disappeared. We just want to get rid of oil heat and not have to deal with it anymore. Except, we have to figure out how to get the tank out of the basement as non of the contractors above would do it.

Big Company B's quotes including moving around breakers in our panel to make space for the new system. Which of their quotes should I be leaning towards? What things should I make sure that the quotes include or is there a system you recommend? Thanks.

You size a heat pump to the cooling load. None of your quoting dealers are doing this. What is size of your current AC and how did it perform as far as cooling your townhouse. What size heat strip are dealers quoting? i assume your quoting dealers have checked your electric service. You will also require a new HP thermostat. I prefer correct size American Standard. Post back.

TD

If the cooling load load really 20,000 BTU, then a 2 ton AC would be sufficient. That is what I would expect for a 1400 sq foot semi-attached townhouse in DC. If it is an old structure with marginal windows then installing a 2.5 ton AC would still be reasonable. A 3 ton is over sized and should be avoided in my opinion.

I like what Company B has quoted. They are going to replace the line set, and offering a 5 year labor warranty. What I don't like is they have quoted 2 ton and 2.5 ton sizes. That makes no sense.

As for Company A, I don't see the point of spending a lot of money on a variable speed air handler and then installing a single stage condenser. Does a 16 SEER system qualify for a rebate or tax credit in your area?

Thanks. We currently have a 2T. However, we've had window ACs in our bedrooms and sometimes in the sitting room for over 6 years so I guess that means it's not been cooling very well for a while. Now, it comes on but blows more like a fan than an AC. @Tigerdunes, Company B’s Goodman quote is with 10kw heatstrip. Not sure what size heatstrip for the AS quote. Company A has not responded to any of my follow up inquiries which means they’re probably too busy to bother. @Mike Homes, most of our neighbors have 2.5T and one has a 3.5T.

Given our heating and cooling needs, what American Standard or other models should I be on the lookout for or ask for a quote on?

What are the BTUs on your window units? You run them all the time?... I suspect your cooling load is not correct. How old is existing AC? Do you plan to be in TH for the foreseeable future? I’ll come back on a recommendation later today.

TD

Where the bedrooms in relationship to the air handler? Many times the issue is leaky and undersized duct work and not the size of the AC. If your duct work is in an unconditioned attic then it should be thoroughly inspect and fixed as needed. If the duct work is marginal at 2 tons, then trying to force 3 tons of air flow is not going to work. If the the neighbors have the same townhouse then ask if their bedrooms are comfortable with the 2.5 ton AC. I would be concerned about going larger than 2.5 tons.

Company B is providing better quality Carrier components ("Performance" series condenser and variable speed FV4 air handler) but not $4000 better! I think you would be best suited with a 3 ton 2 stage heatpump and a variable speed air handler. The low stage is a little over 2 tons and the second stage is 3 tons. It also sounds like you may have a duct performance issue if your current system isn't cutting it on the top floor (bedrooms).

better quality?...sorry but I must disagree...the TRANE HP condensers are every bit as good as the Carrier except for efficiency and the matching var speed air handler...the $4k upcharge is ridiculous...for a two story TH, I think a sgl stage HP with fixed speed air handler with high eff blower motor is the way to go. Plus you get demand defrost with the Trane/AS which eliminates/reduces unnecessary defrost calls which are expensive and add to wear and tear...i would go with Trane or AM Standard 15 SEER HP model with fixed speed high eff air handler.

TD

We have a 5000 BTU in the mb and in the kids bedroom on the 2nd level. We also an 8000 BTU on the main level. We run the ACs all the time now since the central AC was turned off cos it was not cooling. The air handler is located in the basement two levels below the bedrooms. The upper level ductwork is the crawl attic which has adequate insulation per an energy audit performed some years ago. The duct work for the main level is on the floor b/w the basement and the main level. @TIgerdunes, are you recommending not to go with a variable speed air handler as is your usual recommendation? Thank you.

Hello. The Goodman quote was a mistake and should have been a 2.5T. Any AS model recommendation? @Tigerdunes, “fixed speed air handler with high eff blower motor is the way to go”. That means you’re departing from your usual variable speed handler recommendation? May I ask why? Also, which model numbers should I ask for? Thanks.

Try Craigslist for oil tank removal.

"better quality?...sorry but I must disagree..."

Perhaps "quality" was the wrong word. The "Performance" series is Carrier's mid/higher end series below their top of the line Infinity series - 2 stage, compressor blanket, filters, hi, lo pressure switches, etc, etc. Would be my choice if the price were more realistic. Demand defrost is nice to have.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

I'm still waiting for recommendations. Pretty Please?

Heat pumps are sized for AC cooling. I am confused about the correct AC sizing for your townhouse since you are running window units. I think your load calc for cooling offered by one of your quoting dealers is highly suspect. I would recommend AmStd Silver 15 Heat Pump with best matching fixed speed air handler that has high eff blower motor.. if cost is not a factor and you plan on living there for the foreseeable future, then the var speed air handler model. New HP thermostat. Heat strip. New refrigerant lineset. Work with the AMStd dealer you’re most comfortable with.

TD

What’s HP Thermostat? We currently have a Nest thermostat, can we use that?

You need a heat pump thermostat for a new heat pump. Your existing AC thermostat will not work....They are not expensive. They are available in programmable or non programmable.

TD

do you have a return on each floor? How are you filtering your return?

Here are my recommendations. I still have questions though about your cooling load. I do not like the idea of using window units.

AMStd Silver 15 HP 4A6H5

Air handler GAM 5 high eff

TEM 6 var speed

TD

There’s a return on floor 1 and floor 2 but none in the basement. Another tech said we needed 2.5T Heatpump and 3T air handler. The window ACs will be removed once a new system is installed. Thanks.

Probably a 7.5 KW or 10 KW heat strip. Quoting dealer should check your breaker box for capacity. Air handler, HP condenser, and heat strip to be on separate circuits.

TD

We were told we need about 60A for the new system and that they can move things around to get enough capacity. I tried finding an AHRI match for a 2.5T Silver 15 and a 3T Tem 6 but could not. Could I be doing it wrong? Thanks for your help.

I will check on matching number and come back later today....

TD

How do you filter your returns?

here are the AHRI matching numbers.

Am Standard AHRI matching numbers for 2 1/2 HP 4A6H5030H

GAM5B0B30M21EA 15 seer ahri # 9033754 fixed speed
TEM6A0B24H21SB 15 seer ahri # 9033755 var speed

AHRI number 9033756 shows 4A6H5030H model instead of E model. VAR speed

my choice would be the 54 or the 56.

you should get better dehumidification in AC cooling with the var speed air handler

TD

Found them. Thanks. Does this mean that there’s no AHRI match up for silver 15 2.5T and TEM6 3T?

I did not see a matching number for TEM 6 036 ...I would not be concerned....

Thanks. So 2.5T air handler will be adequate?

Sizing is your responsibility. I have doubts about the accuracy of your load calc especially for cooling. I suggest you discuss this with dealer. dealer should also check size of your refrigerant lineset. What size outside condenser do your neighbors have on a similar TH?

TD

Most neighbors have 2.5T. Not sure what size their inside units are.

A size of 2.5 tons for a semi-attached 1400 sq foot townhouse in DC would seem reasonable. Going to 3 tons seems over sized, and 2 tons would probably work, but it might be marginal on a 95 degree day. If you have a choice within the matches , then I would go with a 3 ton coil.

Thanks. To get an AHRI match with TEM 6 3T, we would have to go up to a 2.5T Silver 16.

I think 2 1/2 ton size is correct...as stated previously, I have reviewed AHRI Directory again and there is not a matching system in the 036 (3 ton) air handler either in the GAM5 or TEM6 air handlers...the 030 is your best choice for a 2 1/2 ton Silver 15 HP.

TD

Thank you for your patience. What else should I make sure they include in our install?

Is current AC condenser R22 or R410 refrigerant? Refrigerant lineset should be checked for size and condition. If reused, it should be flushed out according to standards. I asked about how your return air is filtered, no answer. Good HP thermostat programmable or non programmable. I would want condenser placed on concrete pad. 7.5 KW or 10 KW heat strip, breaker box to be checked for capacity. I like to place condenser, heat strip, and air handler on separate circuits. Check ductwork for sizing; generally for a 2 1/2 ton system, you want a minimum of 11-1200 CFMs for both supply and return...

TD

I suggest if possible replacing the line set. If it is not replaced then it has to be properly flushed if the you are going from R-22 to R-410A and it is the proper size (diameter). Ideally a 4 inch media filter, programmable thermostat, new pad for the condenser to sit on, parts and labor warranty, the sized of the heat strips, and the required permits. If the air handler is going to be in a place where condensate overflow will cause water damage to the house, then a condensate overflow alarm (shutoff) should be included.

Thanks. To answer your question, "I asked about how your return air is filtered, no answer"

I'm not sure I understand the question but there is a return on floor 1 and floor 2 but none in the basement. There is a filter located in the lower part of the oil furnace. That filter has not been changed in a very long while. @mike_home, the air handler will be located in the basement on concrete floor, less than two feet from the sump pump. Will we still need the overflow alarm shutoff?

Discuss Return filter cabinet with dealer, probably at air handler with good access. will air handler be located in basement?

TD

Yes, it will replace the oil furnace in the basement

If the air handler is not near any part of a finished basement, then it is not necessary. I assume the PVC drain pipe will flow into the sump pump. I like the clear EZ trap so you can visually see any debris. It has plastic caps which can be opened for easy cleaning.

Every forced air system has to have at least one filter. In some cases the filer is located at the return grille. In other cases it is located where the return enters the furnace or air handler. In your case when they remove the oil furnace they will install the filter at the air handler. Filers come in many sizes. A 4 inch filter means it is 4 inches thick. A 4 inch thick filter does a better job of filtering and lasts longer than a 1 inch thick filter. If the space allows ask for a 4 inch filter. For a 2.5 ton system the filter should be 16 X 25 inches or an equivalent area. Bigger is better when it comes to filters. You need to be checking the filter on a regular basis. Whatever they install, it needs to be easy for you to check yourself. Replacing a filter should not be a difficult task for a homeowner.

Whatabout a humidifier. We have an Aprilaire 500 we bought some years back but never used. Can we still use it or is it obsolete? Thanks.

I would take some humidity readings on both floors before I installed it. Why was it never installed?...

We bought it in preparation for a Heatpump install some years back but we never did so it’s been sitting around since then. We do have a dehumidifier in the basement.

Of course you will need to make plans for decommissioning the oil furnace, tank, leftover oil, etc....

I would avoid installing a humidifier and only do it as a last resort.

Last resort? I don’t understand.

Low humidity in the winter is due to leaky windows and doors. The cold dry air enters the house, and then is heated which lowers the humidity. You are better off making the house tighter than running a humidifier 24/7 to make it comfortable. Humidifiers need to be maintained and cleaned on a regular basis.

Thanks. Is the 4” media filter the same as return filter cabinet? What thermostat and media filter cabinet do you recommend?

The cabinet is the rectangular box which holds the filter. The size of the filter and the box is determined by the air flow the air handler needs. You should be able to get the air handler's matching cabinet (Trane, Carrier, etc.), or you could get a third party cabinet from Aprilaire. Whatever you get you want to make sure it is easy for you to check and change the air filter as needed.

You should get a programmable thermostat that is compatible with a heat pump and auxiliary heat strips. Honeywell makes several touch screen thermostats. I don't think you need to spend the extra money on a WiFi thermostat unless you have a need to control the temperature when you are not home. Installers typically want to install the same thermostat in order to not have to read the installation manual Find out what model they are proposing and we can look up the features to see if it is appropriate.