Coarser? No, although varieties vary. Some are fairly coarse, others very fine-bladed.

Irrigation is technically greater, when established, than KBG. Once established, KBG need not be irrigated at all and can be allowed to go dormant. TTTF has no dormancy mechanism and will slow down, drop the leaf to preserve the crown, but eventually die.

TTTF requires less feeding to look good than KBG overall, however.

KBG doesn't require overseeding. TTTF does.

There's a whole series of tradeoffs. It's why a lot of people just go with a tri-mix (TTTF, KBG, and rye) and have all three.

Ahhh, the good 'ole SNS mix. I was actually under the impression the SNS mix existed since it was a general do all....and whatever cultivar ends up surviving, wheter it was thrown in sun or shade.

Good analogy. The KBG will go dormant and the TTTF will need to be overseeded if not irrigated. Maybe I can overseed with TTTF just so it can fill in and the turf can get dense (no irrigation, hellstrip). And hope in time, the 2 year old KBG that is still struggling since it's no irrigation, will just keep on establishing at out some point, it will not require overseed as the KBG will be established and fill in the bare.

On year 2 of KBG, and many spots have not gone dormant but checked out.

"Ahhh, the good 'ole SNS mix. I was actually under the impression the SNS mix existed since it was a general do all....and whatever cultivar ends up surviving, wheter it was thrown in sun or shade."

Not really, it's a good set of species that complement each other. Where one gets sick, the others don't. It's as though--to coin a phrase here--most people were actually smart enough to stay home most of the time and wear a mask when in public when a disease broke out as opposed to just doing whatever.

In this case, it's that one cultivar is much more likely to be immune or more resistant (wearing a mask or not susceptible, effectively "at home"), providing a barrier to slow or stop the disease as opposed to letting it roll through the population, killing or weakening the grasses and forcing recovery time.

You'd almost think there's a lesson there.

It does also provide that extra roll of the dice to accommodate a variety of water and soil types. Sun, not so much. Even the sun and shade mixes really prefer six hours or more of sun regardless of what they say, unless they're very heavy on red fescue.

Bluegrasses don't struggle due to lack of irrigation. I haven't irrigated in years. They usually struggle due to poor feeding; they really demand 4 pounds of nitrogen per year, 1 pound each at the proper times (Memorial Day, Labor Day, October 1, and when the grass stops growing for the year if it's November 1 or later).

I seeded TTTF/KBG (10%) in my hellstrip many years ago. I overseed it every fall with TTTF. The middle part of the hellstip has drainage pipe underneath it so burns out every few years (like this year) when it's hot and dry. When TTTF is completely straw colored, it's dead. KBG? Maybe dead, but maybe just dormant. Overall, TTTF is a great choice for unirrigated areas. My 800 sq ft of hellstrip doesn't cost a whole lot to overseed every year in spread it and forget it fashion. My latest overseeding cultivar is Rendition. Seems like TTTF can get wide bladed if it has room to do so (ie. less dense areas). Also, assuming the dormant grass is the kbg, it's clear to me this year that what was started out predominantly TTTF is now about 50% TTTF, even after overseeding yearly with only TTTF. It's probably been 8 years since I seeded it with TTTF/KBG.

I don't know when these cultivars emerged, but I'm seeing what is being touted as TTTF with Rhizomes as well

Since no irrigation on the hellstrip, I've been planting KBG plugs every fall These plugs last through the following next year spring/summer heat. The other areas where I just overseed, it goes from dormant to death. Spring is always great and dense from the fall overseed. Overseeding with KBG does not work for me sofar on non irrigation. The plug pots are blueberry, kiwi strawberry containers. Ha. What plastic I get throughout the season becomes grass plugs.

The nice thing about TTTF overseeding is that there is usually enough rain in the fall that it germinates and establishes quite readily. A far cry from KBG.

I think I shall give it a shot. I know I asked about TTTF. When I hear/think of tall fescue in the same wording, I just think of uber coarse blades. In my initial poll, everything I've read on TTTF seems to infer it's not as coarse but some can get coarse (not sure if the coarse is relative to season progression or just if it's not in a dense planting)

K-31 is coarse beyond belief, but also completely bulletproof. Drought? No problem. Disease? It seems to laugh at it.

It's an ugly grass, but it would probably survive a direct nuclear strike.

Did you have to say K31.... ;-0

I'm kinda doing okay with my -annual- KBG plug planting. Making a dent in it surviving with each plug I plant in the fall. overseeding just doesn't get it mature enough even at next years late spring heat.

I'd hate to plant this stuff and have K31 coarseness.

I wonder if there's a K-31 mod for Fallout 4? If not, I may make one. Seriously, that stuff should be common through the Commonwealth, thriving on radiation and the blood of raiders.

Bluegrasses, fall-planted, really shouldn't have too much trouble the following summer. Seriously. I do *not* irrigate. Except during seeding periods, I never irrigate. My bluegrass does not now and never has had any issues, curbside, sandy substratum near the driveway, nuthin'. It may blast out, but it's back in fall.

Maybe the curbside for you is just the regrowth spread ?

Planted plugs, overseeded last fall. Mild winter. Looked lush in spring. Late Spring, started seeing some decline. Assuming the fairly dry late spring/early summer we had, I presumed it went dormant. Did a test pull about a week ago. Pulled up easily. Hence, the bulb in my brain started thinking about a reseed this fall with TTTF.

Unless someone will say u dummy, even while dormant, the dry blade will pull up easily. When I took my hand and just sifted a spot, the blades moved with ease and all I saw was dirt.

The dry blade will pull up easily. Dry enough and it'll even drop the crown. It doesn't necessarily mean the roots are dead. :-) Only the growth point on the root needs to survive.

Right now, I have one or two areas that are hay on the southwest face. They'll come back. I don't rake--it damages the crown if it's still alive. which it may or may not be, and can damage the top edge of the stem and root as well, which the grass definitely can't afford when it's stressed already.

During a dry July, the rule is "hands off." Although I did just drop soybean meal; rain is expected here soon, and TS Isaias may give us a brush as well. No matter how it works out, it won't be available until August 20th at the earliest anyway.

Interesting. Maybe the soil in the plugs (medium silthy clay) is just more rich in OM and whatnot. I can clearly tell which areas of the hellstrip were the plugs I planted and it's little areas of 6x6 squares of green blades with a mosiac of hay for the rest of the hellstrip

Maybe I should leave it alone and see what comes back to life post labor day then.

I was thinking it was dead as a ....

Doornail, although why a doornail should be compared to a lifeform has always been a mystery to me.

Hold on a sec. It's not like I have anything to do right this moment. This is what I'm working with. It looks terrible, but...well, actually, better than everybody else's. And it'll look fine once it starts to rain again and temperatures cool off. By October, you won't be able to tell this lawn was ever dormant at all.

Seriously, this is my lawn (and gardens) at the moment. The section in front is massively blasted.

There's that section close up. It's hay. It's high in OM--close to 8%. It's just that there's been zero rain in 2 weeks and it's been in the mid-90's. Also, there's a poo.

The section by the driveway. Equally blasted, even higher in OM because I pour it on here and dump fall leaves by the pound. It does this every summer and recovers beautifully in September.

That weird shadow in the front is my hair. Uncut since February when all this began, it's taking on a life of its own and has earned the nickname, "Hell Toupee."

I guess I'll give it a good BLOW when cooler temps prevail, just to loosen up some of the matting and then give it a good rake after greenup (hopefully) to see where I can overseed back with more KBG. I have about 2 dozen plugs ready to be planted as well

You've given me some hope. Here's hoping it really is just dormant... I'm sure the soil profile is different where there is green perky grass. Good amended OM dirt I've been taking out of my gardens for the plugs. Seeded Pots somewhere between March 2019-May 2019. Spoon Watered , hand cut haircuts. Established mature blade when planted. All planted in Late August 2020. Versus the rest which got overseeded.

The stuff that is green, standing tall, is kinda like looking like a checkerboard. Squares of green, but more matted hay. It was looking great in spring so here's to hoping it just needs time to establish....and there is still life

The transplanted stuff might have deeper roots, or more OM, and hold more water or be able to tap it from deeper sources. So it stays greener, longer. That's good, and it'll spread as well.

This fall, dump your fall leaves on the hell strip and mow them in, and keep doing it year after year to deepen the organic layer there. Over the years, you'll note it stays greener (a little) in summer. Every year, I grind my gardens into those bad areas, but...well, there's a limit. It's just been a very dry, very hot summer with a very stable atmosphere around here.

Unfortunately. Hopefully that'll change in August, but if not, rainfall usually resumes in September.

Here's my kbg. 3rd week in July to now.

Do I take a shove to pull out a core to see if it got roots. 1 year old KBG, dormant and now some bare dirt and some hay. How will I know if cooler temps, wetter days will make it show it's face ?

Overseed with more KBG and planted the plugs I've been growing since march. Second guessing myself and with the (hellstrip heat sandwich, no irrigation) second guessing should I have put down TTF.

On the flipside, I did put some Alfalfa about 2 weeks and what exisits is quite nice and deep green

If it's only a year old and it is completely straw-colored (no green), I'd say it's dead. It's actually not too late to overseed with TTTF. I'm doing my hellstrip around labor day because I'm not going to be irrigating and there are going to be a few hot days ahead. Even in my picture above, there's enough dead spots in my KBG front that it will eventually fill in but I'm using the opportunity to overseed. Dropped seed last weekend and set the sprinklers for light irrigation multiple times a day.

Instead of fretting, maybe I should just get a line put out front......the guys can do it semi-invasively. Dig a hole from source. Then a -bullet- can get from point A-B. The rest is easy on trenching.

Overseeded this weekend with KBG already. Giving myself a small early window that if come september, germination and (stand fill) is not looking great, I will give overseed another go.

When I did do a rake before overseed, I did see -grass tops- on some areas where it was dirt. Not sure if it's just ---Organic Matter--- as this point of will new blades pop.

Cooler temps for sure seem to be underway as of 2 days okay. And we got at least a sprinkle and then some. We'll see...

Circling Back. Miracle in a Bag ? Dunno. It was cheap at siteone.

I put down CarbonPro heavily almost 2 months ago when I did a TTTF overseed. zero watering on the strip and today would probably be maybe it's 3rd time it's seen irrigation from mother nature. I did run a hose and watered in the strip and carbonpro.

On what seemed like dead dormant sparse turf, and between just overseeding heavily with TTTF, the dormant strip is not so dormant anymore. I'm not 100% sure if it is was the TTTF (as the blades all seem pretty dang mature on the 1st mow post overseed) or if the KBG woke up and just grew up mature width blades.

We'll see next summer. That would be the benchmark of whether it remains green or dormant