Even Walmart sells chicken runs! Who knew? 😁

“I'll figure out what I need to know about horses before I get one, thats why I asked.”

I‘ve been riding for 40 years and I still haven’t figured out horses. You need to drop the horse idea entirely. You have no idea what you’d be taking on. The farriers, the vaccines, the de-wormers, how to keep weight on them in the winter, not to allow them to overgraze in Spring, and when they colic - and they will - they can die if you don’t act fast.

The hay - you have to know what you’re doing to farm it in the way of fertilizing, mineral levels, protein levels, and the precise time you can cut the hay, how to cut it, how to store it. And 2 acres isn’t nearly enough to grow enough hay to take just 1 horse through the winter. So you’ll need to buy hay, which has gotten increasingly expensive over the years. Sometimes you can’t even find hay to buy in the winter because it’s been all bought up by barns bigger and more knowledgeable than you. Then there’s the grain you’ll have to buy for your horses which is expensive. And the vet bills. Oh, the vet bills. Don’t think your horses will be somehow immune from vet bills.

There are so many rescue organizations for horses that are filled to the brim with horses taken from people like you. People who say just what you said that I quoted above. Who are well-meaning but should never, ever, be allowed to keep horses because they don’t have the years of experience needed. The horses arrive at the rescues sick, emaciated, their feet are always really effed up so they can barely walk because horses’ feet is a science all on its own and someone like you won’t have that knowledge. And their personalities are destroyed because their owners didn’t have a clue.

Stick to farming your land and leave out living beings who will be at the mercy of your ignorance.

@Shannon...I'm not reading all that. but whatever you typed im sure its not beneficial to me. You totally could have saved your fingers the trouble. please go write a novel to someone else...Thanks

And that level of callousness is why you should not have horses. You can’t bother to read something for more than 3 minutes, but you think you can learn what it takes to keep a horse? That takes years.

Stick to farming your land and leave out living beings who will be at the mercy of your ignorance.

Shannon how would you expect someone learns about having a horse? Personally, and I know dogs are not the same as horses at all, but before we got our first dog we knew very little. Once committed to getting one we looked up breeders, different training methods, best foods, talked to others who had same breed we wanted and learned. Then when we got the dog we were ready. Don’t people who buy horses do the same? Why is the assumption that the OP won’t research owning a horse? They can do that while simultaneously planning a spot for future horses to go can’t that? Lots of comments in this thread for nasty really quickly. It’s kind of weird they did. Wasn’t the basic question help me plan my yard to include horses down the road, driveway, veggies and some money making options?

Meat rabbits are very efficient. They need Little space, food is cheap supplemented with scraps, they grow and reproduce quickly, and freeze well.

Plant a mix of slower growing trees with faster growing trees so you still have trees 15-20 years later. Then plant a new tree every so often. Looks like you'll want plenty of dappled shade to keep things cool.

But wear did OP say I’m getting a horse tomorrow? Sounded more like a future plan. Seems exactly like what you would ask connected to landscaping then learn about horses. JMO

Horse keeping is not rocket science, somehow I managed to keep mine healthy and happy since my early teens. And you definitely do not need to spend what has been stated above. I am sure the masseuse is laughing all the way to the bank. OP will need to manage his land carefully to have horses, but he is obviously doing the research and not putting the cart before the horse. Pun intended.

"but he is obviously doing the research and not putting the cart before the horse."

Is that like plopping a house on a site and then trying to figure out what to do with the rest of the property?

I am continually confused as to why people post dilemmas asking for advice, and then become insulted when they receive it.

I'm in the 'let go of the horse idea' camp. You simply don't have enough land. Unless you are really into animal husbandry I'd let go of that idea too because all animals make poop and you will have to clean it up.

The acre and a half left over after the house and wind break needs are met makes competing with industrial agriculture pretty much out of the question as well. That leaves you with finding a specialty crop and niche market of some kind for profit making. This is where I enter the Mark Bischak Architect camp. What you do for that is going to determine how the site should be organized.

Surprisingly no one in a landscape design forum mentioned a plant nursery. You can grow a lot of potted plants on an acre and a half of flat ground. There will even be higher profit niche markets in the nursery trade. Someone mentioned cut flowers and soon enough as someone else mentioned, pakalolo could be a viable option. Growing other kind herbs might be worth looking into as well and easier and less fuss than fine produce.

There are indeed possibilities.

I’m curious about the triangular dark green area on the left at 10.00 o’clock. Is there a seep there?

@Dana Bier I'm continually dumbfounded on why people keep commenting frivolously. You added nothing of pertitance to this thread, you just asked yourself a hypothetical question. What good does that do you or me?

@Christopher I have enough land, so stop beating that dead horse (get it lol)

@Mark we're all not architects like you. Tell me whats bad about, putting a house on land then figuring out how to use it...How else do you do that sir? Covenants dictate the house has to be '75 from the roadway thats why it is where it is👍🏾😁

@Floral its a spot that retains water. Its getting aerated in the final grade of the house

I

Hmm. I was trying to help, but I guess advice is not appreciated As the rudeness has escalated. I’m outta here too.

@little bug you actually offered advice which I am considering. thank you for that

"Hey guys, I'm building on 2.5 acres in Oklahoma and I'm trying to figure out landscape design and also ways to utilize all this land for profit. I'm wanting to do barrier trees on each side of the house to slow down wind and for privacy also. Eventually we plan on getting a horse or two so I'd like a nice fence that won't break the bank.Im also planning to do a small scale garden/farm. I've never owned this much property before and I just can't figure out the best way to utilize all. Im open to any suggestions. Can't quite figure out driveway design either.. Lemme hear what you got!!"

I think it's really great you're thinking about your long-term plans and what you might like to eventually do -- I really don't think posters are being intentionally nasty, and some really good points have been made, though I venture some of it may be what you don't want to hear.

What you outlined in your original post really isn't realistic on only 2.5 acres. While it may seem like a great expanse to an urban or suburban dweller, it just *is not* that much land. That doesn't mean it can't be utilized in an efficient manner, but that takes a lot of planning -- if you're starting with a blank space, you should absolutely be thinking about best placement for the house based on how you want to utilize your lot.

Even something like windbreaks affects the entire plan -- effective windbreaks cast a lot of shade, you have to locate your garden far enough away so that the shade doesn't affect the vegetables/fruit (which need full sun conditions for optimal growth). I have a vegetable garden that's around 2000 sq ft -- I highly doubt I can make a meaningful profit on that, certainly not enough to offset the time in labor that would require (time is money in my book). My sister has a 10 acre hobby farm, she sells at farmers market during the season up here and I doubt she's making very much of a profit, and that's with getting a jump-start on the season with greenhouse.

There's nothing wrong with getting a horse or other animals if you will be committed to their care, but have you thought about the smells they create and how to locate grazing areas and barn to limit the unpleasantness? I have two pasture areas adjacent to one another, the horse (horses until a short while ago) is usually kept in the area that is about 1/2 acre away from the back of the house, and on a hot humid day I can still smell manure wafting through the air from way back there, and we're pretty good about keeping on top of things manure-wise. Where are you going to locate the water trough? The hay feeder? The lean-to? What about the shade? It's the same with any animal, really -- but there's just a heck of a lot more to plan for/deal with/handle with livestock than the family dog or cat.

If you still want to pursue getting a horse, you can volunteer at a stable/boarding facility to learn some basics, and consider fostering a horse on a short-term basis to see if ownership is a good fit for you before you fully commit (the foster organizations in my area require volunteer hours before fostering if you're not already experienced with horses -- but it can be a good way to get your feet wet).

@mxk3 Thanks for the tangible info. I will look into volunteering as that sounds like a good way to gain knowledge. I appreciate it

following

following

DH and I own and operate a 1000 acre beef cattle farm so hear me when I say this:

The best way to make a profit on 1.5-2 acres of land is to do NOTHING. Any endeavor to utilize the property "to make a profit" will end up in a loss whether it's for cows, chickens, goats, horses, etc. The start up costs will take years to recuperate. Making money with livestock takes a "go big or go home" mentality and you simply don't have enough land to do so.

You might could make some money growing sweet corn or produce and selling it at your local farmer's market but truly, you'd be better off getting a side job and working the same amount of hours. You'd come out far better.

@shead that's simply not true! there's a lot of people micro farming and seeing profits. whether its micro greens, bamboo or a variety of other things.

I once sold my dill crop to a local market. I made $10 that year farming.

https://youtu.be/jbHwAfHQA9M

for all you naysayers

Well bend me over a barrel and show me the 50 states! You mean to tell me there's a horse and chicken farm on 1 acre of land....wow who would have thought that was possible

https://youtu.be/oi-XzDwS03I

Site planning can be done before construction starts or a shovel is placed into the ground. Analysis can be done to how to best use the property before any site plan is developed. Placing the house to one side of the property may be beneficial in using a congruent piece of property rather than the same amount of property divided in two by the house placement, or maybe not. At this point the house's location is another factor that needs to be considered in your planning.

Of course urban gardening is a thing. Many communities have gardens in small spaces and sell CSA boxes in season and do quite well. It just not necessarily easy to drop oneself into this.

People can also have chickens and horses in smaller areas. Also not a surprise.

I’d stop trying to placate the other posters. Do your thing and enjoy!

Your first video claims $100k per year GROSS REVENUE with 2 people working full time.

That isn't a living wage. Is that what you mean by profit? Where your time is basically worth nothing? The people that are protesting your plans are probably assuming that you want to live off of the profit.

If it's just to make some pocket change while doing a hobby that you enjoy doing otherwise, that's a different story.

I'd prefer that you would have had a plan for this land usage before siting the house, but - by placing your home toward the center of the lot, you have ensured that you don't have neighbors right no top of you should that farmland disappear.

You'll want the horses close enough to watch but expect you'll want a little bit of yard. Barns smell. You may not like the aroma wafting into your house if you site the barn / shelter and pasture too close. You should probably have 2 pastures to provide grazing rotation, especially if it gets really dry or really wet. And I would agree with a flower garden or a vegetable garden that might support a small farm stand at your road frontage. Fresh eggs probably work too - and chickens help with tick management.

You haven't optimized the land use, but can still make it work.

Don't enter into the horse thing unless you re willing to make a 20+ year commitment. And generally, horses spend a lot of time trying to kill themselves (and can easily require a lot of high dollar vet care)

@just_janni Trying to kill themselves...what do you mean by that?

just_janni - trying to kill themselves! Isn't that the truth!! LMAO.

Terrence Sharpe - horses are like human three year olds. They have an uncanny ability to do stupid stuff that puts their lives in danger in relatively short time periods.

Back to the OP, we visited this niche flower farm and they packed a lot into their small acreage. You will have to thoroughly research options for your own area, but this family has created a very successful business at their home. They were in the flower business for many years before tackling this however.

https://natchezglen.com/blogs/flowers-for-brides/flowers-brides-and-growers

I don't know if it is the case with everything linked to or posted about flower growing here but I did see a story some months back about how the pandemic had decimated the Dutch flower industry. Because nobody was buying cut flowers.

And I did see the Flowers for Brides page linked to above apparently dates from December.

what is a small health issue for other animals easily escalates with a horse. Upset stomach = colic = possible death. They are 1000 pound creatures on legs the size of toothpicks, and hoof care issues can get super expensive. They are not low maintenance animals. If you don't want to ride - consider a mini donkey or 2 - hardier creatures.

@shead that's simply not true! there's a lot of people micro farming and seeing profits. whether its micro greens, bamboo or a variety of other things.

Do you realize what the massive start up costs are for those operations are as opposed to the profits to be made? How many years will it take you to truly be at break-even when taking into consideration depreciation, YOUR time in labor costs, maintenance, etc.?

How much profit are you wanting to make from all the effort and expense involved? Do you know how much work farming actually is and how much sacrifice of time there actually is? Do you realize that if bamboo and micro green farming profits were substantial enough to live on that every cattle rancher and row crop farmer in Oklahoma would be doing it?

I'm not wanting to argue with you, but I'm simply saying that if there was an easy way to make a profit on 2.5 acres, people would be doing it everywhere, especially in Oklahoma where land is more plentiful. But sure, since you're the expert and none of us with any actual experience know anything , tell us how you're going to turn a profit on 2.5 acres AFTER you've fenced it, built your outbuilding for potential horse, left enough acreage for a horse to pasture, left yourself any yard, constructed a driveway, and constructed any type of facility for your profit endeavor.

If you want a horse, get a horse, but just know that horses are sunk costs. We just recently bought two for our daughters and while not $1000 a month, they sure aren't making us any money for the pasture they are using.

Its like yall didn't even see the word EVENTUALLY in my post.

Haha I love how pissed off everyone gets around here anymore. At the end of the day why tf does it matter what any of us do with our own money? This place literally gets more butt hurt about absolutely everything with every passing day.

I had horses on 5 acres in suburban OKC - it was just barely enough property. Also, horses are herd animals - they absolutely hate to be alone (and tend to do more injuries to themselves if alone). I moved and then had my 3 horses on 3.5 acres in Georgia - it was just not enough property. Broken up into two small pastures. I had to feed hay 12 months a year. Horses that are not on decent sized pastures require lots of supplemental feed and constant monitoring - mine tended to colic whenever a big cold front came though. My saint of a vet was out on numerous holidays - Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Superbowl. Also, they will need to be fed twice a day and monitored. That makes vacations/trips rather difficult. I would suggest if you're interested in having horses - take lessons at a local barn and work up to leasing a horse and keeping it at that barn. OKC has lots of nice stables for whatever kind of riding you might be interested in - especially in the Edmond area.

I don't know anything about them, but have you looked into alpacas?

If you do have any type of livestock, you will need as many separate pastures as possible so that you can rotate them. Horses get worms, and produce a lot of manure (disposal of which can be a problem in itself) so changing pastures is a must. and if you let the livestock eat the grass down to bare earth, then your pasture turns into a muddy dry lot. Fencing is another issue with horses - I had a horse cut his chest wide open after running into a 4-board wooden fence - a very sturdy, generally horse-safe wooden fence. (yep, another vet bill). Whatever you do, please don't use barbed wire for horses.

Just a random OK question - your picture looks like it might be west or northwest of OKC - do you have tornado shelter or safe space in your new house?

@debvan its built into the garage. and thanks for your input I appreciate it

Glad you have a storm shelter.

I agree...and find myself very reticent to contribute for that reason..but i give some blame to the scary times.......and...as to why does it matter....it is because these posters are asking for help...and most people here want to help..

Congratulations on your new home, I can feel your excitement. I admire you seeking out food for thought.

I am speaking out only on horses. My daughter had a friend that worked for a stable. Long story short we acquired 2 thoroughbreds 3 years old straight off the race track. These horses had leg injuries. My husband and I agreed stupidly (at that time) to take them in. Keep in mind we knew nothing about a horse...but had to learn really fast. We kept them in our front yard about a year while preparing their pasture, stable and barn.

I do have to agree with the others you need an acre per horse. If you choose to use one acre consider fencing it off to rotate the horses. Like any other animal vet bills are expected.

We have been blessed that our horses had good health. Jack Teagarden passed when he was 25 and our pony was in his 30s. We have one horse left Quite A Day he's 26 and going strong. They have given us so much pleasure. Consider horse rescues.

My advice to you, as your doing now, is to seek information and you'll do fine. Good luck on your new home.

Chiming in again about my "time is money" comment above. My sister (the one with the 10 acre hobby farm who I doubt is making very much money off it) is able to tend to her crops full-time in the summer because she's a teacher and has summers off. But, the rest of the year she works full-time and spends pretty much all weekend every weekend dealing with that hobby farm - the only break she gets is about two months in the winter then she starts up again come around beginning of March or so to start seeds for the greenhouse so she can get to market early. You got the part about the works full-time and spends all weekend on that "hobby", right? For not very much profit, right? She's been doing it for years, and there's something in it for her above and beyond the profit aspect, even factoring in the countless hours she devotes to that small farm that I cannot wrap my head around. I just can't -- I can work another paid job and make more money with less headache that all that. I want to come home and enjoy my land and not feel like I have to spend every waking moment on it.

All that to say go ahead and do whatever you want, but before you do, really think about what it is you want to accomplish and why. Do you need the money? Is there something inherent to farming/keeping animals that you think will make you happy/fulfill you? You are never going to make a lot of money small-scale farming or selling eggs or whatever, but if you can afford to pursue it then go for it -- just go into all with eyes wide open, that's the gist of what I interpret people trying to say. And plan well.

Here's an idea, maybe.... :-)

I don't know if y'all have a similar phenomenon in your area of Oklahoma, but here in Central Texas, we have a beloved annual tradition where people take pictures in fields of bluebonnets (there are even contests for best photo). <3 Newspapers run articles on where the best bluebonnet places are, remind people to avoid fire ant mounds, warn folks not to wander onto private property, etc.

Granted, it's only once a year in the Spring, because that's when the flush of wildflowers happens, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't capitalize on something like that, if it interests you. Insurance would be important, obviously, if you charged a small fee to use your property as a background for photos. Having trees, a cute barn or gazebo, as well as a wooden picket fence in the background, with beautiful flowers in the foreground... Does that sound like potentially something worth pursuing...?

(Or, at the very least, maybe this idea will spark another one! :-D )

"I'm trying to figure out landscape design and also ways to utilize all this land for profit.......Im open to any suggestions."

"At the end of the day why tf does it matter what any of us do with our own money?"

I don't care what anyone does with their own money, but when someone posts saying they are open to suggestions, they need to be open to suggestions. Those suggestions are going to come from people with all sorts of backgrounds and experiences and usually a whole lot of BTDT experience.

Most farmers show a negative income on their tax returns and there's a reason for that. I just don't want to see someone jump into something, invest a lot of money into it, and then 3 years later realize they'd made a poor choice. One of our good friends grew hemp last year when the CBD market was booming but so many other people also jumped into the market that it was flooded and now my friend is left with $40K in debt and all of last year's harvest still not sold.

_______________

"All that to say go ahead and do whatever you want, but before you do, really think about what it is you want to accomplish and why. Do you need the money? Is there something inherent to farming/keeping animals that you think will make you happy/fulfill you? You are never going to make a lot of money small-scale farming or selling eggs or whatever, but if you can afford to pursue it then go for it -- just go into all with eyes wide open, that's the gist of what I interpret people trying to say. And plan well."

Yes, this x1000 ^^^^^. You definitely have to LOVE it for it to be a worthwhile use of time.

I don't know what surrounds you, but, maybe you can eventually add an acre or 4.

@User - It may seem that the horse community is being a bit rough on you, but in all honesty getting a horse and getting a dog are not at all similar. Everything you know instinctively is pretty much true with dogs. They do good you play with them, they do bad and you say no and ignore them. They need your attention and want your approval. They give you their trust and even when owners are cruel a dog will often keep trying to be their friend.

Horses are pray animals who's instinct is to take flight when something is unfamiliar. You have to gain their trust. You have to introduce every new thing slowly and patiently. When you have gained their trust you can begin working with them to get them to do what you want. You have to be confident and communicate in a way that they understand - this is not words, it is body language. You work them until they get it right then you don't pat them on the neck and hug them and praise them, you stand quietly and let them rest. They don't enjoy going over jumps or running barrels, they do it for you because the two of you have built a bond and they know you will let them rest and keep them safe and in return they will do what you ask.

If your dog nips you you can grab them by the scruff and shake them, yell at them and put them in their crate. Often with pups who are nipping the best thing you can do is just yelp like they hurt you and pull yourself into a ball, turn your back on them and don't respond if they try to make nice. If your horse nips at you you have to punch them in the head with every ounce of might you can muster, grab a rope and start working them until they are damn tired and know that this behavior will mean a lot of work. If they get pissed and charge you you better make yourself big and push them back with your body language. You have to train them to move their hips away from you with a glance of your eye. I remember a young woman who was grooming one of my young mares - I told her to let the horse see the fly spray first, then spray a couple of sprays on her neck to let her know what is happening. The young girl thought she had the mares trust and started spraying. On the second spray the bottle was kicked from her hand and landed 15 feet away. The horse had no intention of hurting her - she just didn't like to be surprised and let the young woman know this was not okay. She could have just as easily kicked the girl in the head and caused permanent brain damage. They are big animals that can hurt you. You have to respect this and you have to make them respect your space.

With time you build a bond with a horse, but they count on you to be confident and keep them safe, so you shouldn't go to your horse when you are upset - leave your problems at the gate.

It is a very different bond than dog and human.

You will have to learn how horses think, you will have to anticipate things before they happen. I lived in Southern California and we had wild fires - I knew my horses would be evacuated and taken somewhere safe if fire hit, but my horses won't trust to drink the water somewhere else if it doesn't smell and taste the same as what they are used to. They don't trust anything. So once a week I gave them a little orange soda in their water as a treat. When they were evacuated I put a bit of orange soda in the water and they drank.

Horses don't tell you what is wrong, you have to observe them and know when their gate is off or their off their feed. Their instinct is to not show weakness - that makes them pray. They will also test you and learn quickly if bad behavior gets them out of work.

I am close to 60 years old and have been around horses since I was 3. I worked in the humane industry for 25 years. I have seen more people buy horses and never ride than you can imagine. The horses become lawn ornaments or stuck in a paddock and not even gotten out to run in a pasture. Most of the time it is because the purchaser didn't know what they were getting into, didn't have training, didn't know what they were doing and the horse did something that intimidated them and now they are too scared to get on the horse and ride and don't know how to fix the problem. All too often the horse suffers and the human goes on with their life like what they are doing is perfectly okay.

By the way, most horse experts advise that you should have at least 2 horses (Some states make it mandatory) and that the 1st horse should have 2 acres of space and each horse after that should have another acre. You have enough space for one horse, and should get a mini to keep it company.

I went grades 8-12 with this guy:

You talking to me??

In high school, he converted his family's garage on a typical small tract lot into a stable for his horse. For exercise, he galloped along the right-of-way of the then under construction Long Island Expressway. So it can be done!

@Terrence Sharpe

If you say you have enough land you are certainly not a gardener. So the profit making ideas I offered for the land you do have are not likely to be of use to you.

The one thing you have not done much of in this post is clarify your wants, needs, abilities, interests or notions of what "profit' actually means for you. There has not even been any clarification of the site conditions for placing a driveway. The one topic you seem most interested in is that of beating your own dead horse. Get it? (lol)

Profit implies a business plan. That can be more work than laying out the house site. Good luck dude.

Profit to me means I get more out than I sunk in. If my veggie garden makes enough veg for my family plus I sell a bit that’s a profit. Mine doesn’t FYI. 😜

@Chris cool