I had Iceberg and the mini Mandarin Sunblaze planted at the base of an old poplar tree. When I dug the holes I had to cut through 2-inch thick roots with an axe. They both bloomed beautifully all summer and the shade didn't seem to affect them. The Iceberg got to 4 feet tall before I transplanted it when we moved.

In your location

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=105136

sounds like it may fit your requirement of “standing their ground”.

Flower carpet roses are known as drought-tolerant. At Chicago Botanical Garden, they planted a circle of at least 20 light-pink flower-carpet (many petals pom-poms) RIGHT NEXT TO THE TRUNK of a large tree (alive and big). And these roses bloomed tons (more blooms than leaves) .. it was like a pink carpet around a healthy tree, so impressive. Amazing how such roses bloom in partial shade & on top of thick-tree roots.

Thank you all for the recommendations!

After 3 years of giving the benefit of the doubt to my hybrid tea and grandiflora close to a tree (have no choice) - it's time to move on.

They have demonstrated they can't stand their ground.

Right now, my HT is trying to bloom with a total buds of 1, nothing else in sight. The Grandiflora beats it at 2 or 3 buds. They both bloomed a bit better in spring (nothing to write home about though) and then I waited an entire summer for more bloom, only to get 1 from the HT and 2-3 from the GF. Ridiculous.

I do understand part of the problem is the tree vicinity and the roots in the area, but still. They should be able to fight for their rights at least some because I fed them, watered them, sprayed them and did everything by the book.

Julia Child in its first year, also planted in the area, did better than both of these combined. Now it's coming back with 5 buds. Much less than in the spring, but it's something for a baby.

Iceberg is probably a good idea because I have seen it recommended for my area and it often appears in nurseries and big box stores here. Problem is that when I saw it, the bloom was hardly impressive so I was never attracted to it. Then again, pictures online are gorgeous so the potential is there, I suppose.

I searched the Flower Carpets in helpmefind and from all, I like Apple Blossom. I wonder whether the Drifts and the Flower Carpets were bred for roughly the same purpose; and which series is more prolific. I also wonder if Iceberg or the Flower Carpets would be more prolific in terms of bloom coverage.

I guess what I care about most is bloom abundance, bloom frequency (ideally permanent throughout the season), vigor (be able to fight with tree roots) and disease resistance, in this order.

Thank you so much again.

Iceberg will blackspot in our humid zone if not sprayed. It blooms continuously and it is a great rose, but no spray and under tree sounds like a bad combo.

I do not remember if you said you get more than 6 hours of sun under the tree. If you do consider planting Kordes roses which are VERY vigorous and disease resistant. They do need more than 6 hours of sun tho or they won’t perform.

Bordeaux cityscape

pomponella

Quicksilver if kept as a large bush

Austins:

teasing Georgia as large bush

lady of Shalott as bush

Olivia

Thank you dianela!

With some full sun and some dappled it is difficult to tell total hours. But I think they do get at least 6 hours, overall.

Sounds like Iceberg is out.

I love Pomponella - a bit like Flower Carpet Pink....but Quicksilver is absolutely gorgeous! It reminds me of Love Song which I have furthest to the right in that bed.

I probably I need to find a place for it asap! LOL. Maye next to my Climbing Pinkie in the backyard...they could climb on my deck together.

Can Quicksilver take some shade?

In the tree area I need something closer to a ground cover and very floriferous, like Flower Carpet or Pomponella. I would place 2-3 next to each other to achieve a landscape-y look.

I love Bordeau Cityscape very much but it would not fit with my other roses in that bed (pink and yellow). Reds would need a place all of their own, I think.

Thank you again for bringing Quicksilver to my attention. I am kind of jonsin' for it now. :)

Hi there again. I am glad you like Quicksilver. I got her after Moses recommended her and I saw Helen's pictures. Quicksilver has a very solid cane structure and could be grown as a large bush as well as a climber. I have 5 of them and the ones with some partial shade do not like it. All Kordes I have tried require the full 6 hours or more to do well here (I do not have an extensive list so there might be some that like it.) Pomponella is a super healthy cute rose, but I did not realize you needed something that stayed as low as a groundcover. Pomponella like all Kordes exceeds her supposed size here by a lot. I have 3 that are already over 5 feet tall on their 2nd year from palatine. The ones I saw at the Biltmore in North Carolina were also at least 6 feet tall.

Mine is taking this shape: I do not have a ton of blooms like this yet, but have good constant trickle of blooms

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.268229

For short, vigorous and black-spot resistant without spray:

The drift series sweet drift is my most outstanding variety. The Faun/fawn would be harder to find but I love it. I just got Limoncello Meidiland from heirloom and it is perfectly clean and blooming in their tiny pots. This one is supposed to have outstanding disease resistance and be a super bloomer. Look into the Kordes Veranda series and you may find one that meets your needs also. I grow Lavender veranda and it does black-spot so I would skip her. I am growing Brilliant veranda and it is perfectly clean. I want to add Cream as well. I do not grow Bolero but everyone loves it ( I do not if it is vigorous enough or not)

My neighbor has SWEET DRIFT: they ARE HUGE BUSHES, and NOT cute & low-lying like Flowercarpet for around a tree with shade. Her drift-roses won't bloom unless it's soaking wet, and drift-roses need full-sun, versus light-pink-flower-carpet takes partial shade. Flowercarpet have more blooms than Drift-roses.

Dianela,

I don't need them to be ground cover, but I realized they need to be on the medium to shorter side - because they will occupy the front edge of the bed, as far away from the tree roots as possible.

In that spot, aggressive my best bet is probably to repeat 2-3 of the same vigorous, agressive and floriferous variety that can also take some shade.

I will also have Julia Child and Love song in the second row, and Belinda's Dream all the way to the right.

I am thinking Sweet Drift but I would hope it grows a bit taller than the White Drift I saw which is too much on the ground. This is why I thought that maybe Pink Flower Carpet might be better? It seems to be taller.

How tall does Sweet Drift grow?

strawchicago,

Thank you so much - this is important information that usually can't be obtained just by reading sales descriptions. I thought the Drifts were the height of 'easy' but ...hmm.

I am providing here a more explicit picture of the area. There is a strip right along the edge of this 'bed with tree' that DOES get a lot of sun throghout the day.

It falls right outside the tree canopy, along the driveway. This is were I am thinking to place a row of ALL-THAT roses (low maintenance, very floriferous, disease resistant, vigorous to battle with far reaching tree roots, etc).

The four roses I currently have in that area are more to the right and somewhat under the tree canopy. I didn't understand the positioning very clearly when I planted them because it was spring and this bed was drenched in spring sun. I underestimated how much the summer tree leaves would shade the area.

This means my current roses only get full light when the sun is at certain angles. That's dappled sun and it's clearly affecting bloom production. It might also be the competition with the tree roots. No wonder they bloom OK in the Spring but virtually not at all over the summer.

This is my third year growing roses in this spot (my only option to grow in the ground) and I am yet to see anything really exciting.

So I realized that if I am to have any roses in this area, I will have to bring them towards the front edge of the bed as much as possible and fill that sunny strip with somewhat lower growing roses. They don' have to be ground cover/very low, but not too tall either becuse I think anything too tall would look weird right on the edge of the bed.

Behind them would be nothing because, well - roots and tree shade.

If the Drifts need soaking wet all the time, it might not work.

I remain open to any other ideas for low-to-mid growing vigorous 'pirates' :) able to battle with the tree for water and nutrients. I just don't want any rugosa types with only one row of petals. :)

My sweet drifts only get water once a week if we have no rain at least for 2 full weeks. My yard has a slope since I am at the top of a small mountain so the drainage is super fast and it is never soaking wet even if I tried. They do get sun from around 10 Am on so full sun.

Here they are growing with red and popcorn and sweet is the largest most prolific of the bunch. My deck is knee high. I usually cut them back to edge of the deck in late winter. I am sure if you never pruned her she could easily be 3 1/2 feet tall. She is definitely larger than the rest.

I can’t compare them to flower carpet because I have not had a chance to try them. I am sure both collections have outstanding varieties that could work.

Another rose I forgot to mention is the Poly Kendyl Marie. Outstanding in every regard. Here 2nd year. They get to waist high. You can see they are pretty close to a giant oak tree. I had to dig through his roots to plant every single rose in that bed.

Dianela,

Your Sweet Drift is gorgeous - and one of the reasons why I am so inclined to get one and just see how it does in that spot. Later I could add more.

I do love pink roses the most, especially when they are covered in bloom.

It might have to be between Sweet Drift and Flower Carpet Pink or Pink Supreme.

Whichever gets more bloom coverage. Perhaps I should try both - the pinks might blend in well enough.

Thank you Severe_Novice, I am glad you like my pink drift. If I would have known better I would have chosen a single color and made a solid hedge. I just went to my local lowes one morning in January and they had a bunch of left overs for $4 so I took them home. A solid color or shades of same color tend to look better than the crazy mixes I have made. Both pink flower carpet look gorgeous. You could try both and if they blend well keep them or just keep whichever performs the best and add more to match it. I would love to try some flower carpets, I just have not seen them at my local places before. Please report back on performance, roses that are low maintenance in our area are hard to find.

Dianela,

Believe me, if I get it to perform like yours, I made it! LOL

So true about low-maintenance roses for our area being hard to find!

It sounds like the Drift and the Flower Carpet series are good candidates. So far I have only tried the biggies (HT,s GF and floribundas).

I think it's time to try some of these busy 'dwarfs'. When you see then in commercial zones in your area, you know you're onto something. :)

Jacqueline,

Your White Pet is lovely! I am thinking some pink roses in the area but I may consider this one for a pot.

Do you have much humidity where you are? Based on what I've seen, humidity must be a rose's biggest enemy, after complete lack of watering.

It is not very humid here (except in the wintertime when it is raining!). We have dry, no rain summers. I would check with your local Rose Society where you live to see if anyone grows WP, and how it does.

Jackie

Consider the height of a rose when planted in shade. Small & short White pet is excellent choice. I had that in partial shade & never water it, and I never see diseases in my humid weather, even in month-long rain late fall. Caldwell Pink or Pink pet is very drought-tolerant, I never water it for the past many years (it's on a steep hill in rock hard clay). As own-root they have short but spreading cluster-root, excellent for shallow soil. Soil around tree is very shallow.

I have 2 Lavender Crush roses. One in partial shade is TWICE TALLER than the one in full-sun. One in partial shade gets over 6 feet tall if I'm not brutal in pruning. The one in full-sun is less than 2.5 feet. My neighbor Sweet Drift roses in our zone 5a are 2.5 feet x 3 feet in full-sun (she prunes them). That translate to at least 5 feet x 3 feet if planted in partial shade, plus in a warmer zone. Our winter kills roses to the crown.

The height of a rose determines the DEPTH of the soil required to nourish it. Soil around tree is very shallow, that's why Chicago Botanical garden planted LOW & very short Flowercarpet around the tree's trunk, in partial shade. Also tulip bulbs have shallow roots, so tulips can be planted around the tree's trunk.

I have to dig VERY DEEP for climbers like Lady of Shalott (over 6 feet here as own-root), in contrast floribunda roots are more shallow and the growth is much shorter. The shorter a rose is, the shallower the root. There's not much soil on top of tree's roots, so a short rose with shallow root is best.

strawchicago,

Thank you! I learned my lesson. In this bed, it would have been best to plant only ground-cover type roses from the beginning.

I did not know when I first started out with roses 3 years ago. Early this year I actually wanted to give it all up and then I decided to try again.

Now I am growing a few in containers too and they seem to be evolving pretty well.

With my yard and landscape, containers are probably the preferable option.