What sort of renovations?

Generally, the more detail you provide, the more accurate the bids will be.

You might check on Building a Home (https://www.houzz.com/discussions/building-a-home) as well, someone there may be able to help if no one can here. I seem to recall a few years ago that someone did share that kind of information, but the thread will probably not be easily found.

I wouldn't bid your job, no matter the specifications. If I couldn't sell you my value, I don't deserve your business.

Thanks everyone!

@Kelley Terry - great idea! We have most of this information but it's not as organized as we'd like, definitely something for us to work on.

@PPF. We have five-ish projects...

1. House Kitchen and Pantry: We want to renovate our kitchen and attached small pantry so that we have more storage space, more prep space, and surfaces that are easier to clean. Very straightforward, ripping out all the old cabinets and replacing with Ikea (the cabinets were handmade by the previous owner and not in a good way). Adding lower cabinets and a countertop where we currently have a cart. Changing linoleum out for tile. Adding outside venting range hood. Moving sink and dishwasher slightly to make the overall space more efficient.

2. Bathroom/Laundry Room: Our washer/dryer lives on a small enclosed back porch right now. We also have a large den with an odd shape because there is a small powder room cut into it. We want to expand the powder room into a full bathroom/laundry room with shower, countertop for folding laundry, and a few cabinets for linens etc.

3. Back Porch: Repair all the random wall damage, sloping floor, ill-fitted door etc. on the enclosed back porch so that it can become a tidy storage space for cleaning equipment/supplies on one side and have room for a potting bench on the other side.

4. Upstairs Bathroom: Mini-makeover for our Mamie Eisenhower pink bathroom. Replace damaged tiles, regrout, replace small medicine cabinet with really big medicine cabinet, deal with AC duct that is located inside the tiled built-in vanity so that it actually blows air into the bathroom, add exhaust fan so that we don't set off the smoke detector every time we take a shower, replace toilet.

5. Work kitchen and office (aka The Atelier): I'm a pastry chef, my husband is a sommelier, and our new house is in Virginia, where local law allows us to run a food business out of our home. So... we're taking the mother-in-law suite attached to our home, gutting it, and building a spacious kitchen and small office for our food business. This is the most complicated project. Plumbing, HVAC, electrical, and gas are all moving around. We're using a combination of commercial equipment (refrigeration, ice machine, prep tables, etc.) and residential equipment (Ikea cabinets, residential double-oven and range, etc.). And, we're trying to do the whole thing on a budget but also make it a pleasant space to work in, so it's a lot to consider.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean, would you mind clarifying?

A job like this will be difficult to bid because of the unknowns, and it will probably be hard to find plumbers, electricians etc to do the work, and may even be difficult finding a contractor to even look at the job.

Often, in a project like this, a task that seems simple turns out to be more difficult.

I often do this type of work, and always on a time and materials basis, with an estimate provided, but without any guarantee on total cost.

Addie:

I don't believe in the always-get-three-bids mantra you hear chanted here religiously. It's a giant waste of time for contractors and time is the only thing I have to sell. It's not in customer's best interest either.

If my file cabinet full of satisfied customers doesn't have any value to you, I don't have anything for you. They didn't get three bids either. You get one chance to date me exclusively. I'm nearing capacity, so the marketplace is vindicating my business model.

The issue with a renovation such as yours is that until items like floors and cabinets have been ripped out, the contractor has no idea/best guess what is behind them. If everything underneath is perfect, it is one price. If it is not, the price could be very different. When you undertake a major renovation, usually you assume this risk, not the contractor. Make sure you are dealing with a reputable contractor who has lots of experience with this type of work and comes recommended by satisfied clients. These guys have a better (still not infallible) idea of what underlying issues your house may have and what to do about any that turn up.

The scope of work for projects like yours is best communicated through a set of well thought out, accurate and complete plans and specifications. These benefit both you and your contractor. Depending on the complexity of the work, the plans could be produced by an architect, residential designer or a design/build remodeling contractor. I recommend some investigative work should be completed concurrent with the plans e.g., investigative demolition. This enables the majority of structural issues to move from the "SURPRISE! Here's your change order" category to planned scope of work with a pre-determined cost.

Best wishes for a successful project.

Thank you, everyone, for the helpful input, we really appreciate it!

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - Interesting. I’m curious to know more about two things:

1. How have you steered your business to get to the point where you can buck the expectation of the three-bid model? I’ve been working towards making high-end wedding/event cakes my core business and customers have a similar expectation of getting free tastings, sketches, style boards, etc. before committing. I’m really interested in how small businesses across different industries develop value so that the equation for the customer shifts from “this is the cheapest” to “I want to pay more because I want the best.” What do you think has been most effective in helping you market to and capture those “I want the best” customers and are there particular ways you have developed your business model and/or your skills to cater to them above and beyond what other people in your industry offer?

2. Given the nature of our specific projects, what would you recommend we look for in a general contractor as we research local professionals beyond just a reputation for quality? We live in the Northern Virginia/Metro D.C. area and there are an overwhelming number of choices.

Thanks again for your time!

@PPF. and @shivece - Thanks very much for your explanations. We were expecting our projects to be pretty straightforward, but it sounds like those expectations are probably unrealistic. Based on your experience/expertise, are there particular aspects of our projects that stand out as the biggest red flags of “oh wow, that could turn out to be so much more complicated and expensive than they imagined?” Also, are there specific things you think would be most helpful for us to investigate before proceeding?

@Charles Ross Homes - Thank you for the advice. In your experience, what types of issues do people tend to most frequently leave out or not consider in their plans? And also, would you mind telling me a little more about how investigative demolition works and the types of structural issues you’ve seen uncovered/we might uncover? Thank you again for your time.

Addie

Just depends what you want to do yourselves vs the contractor. If you have never done a renovation you “don’t know what you don’t know”. So big risk factor. So, think very hard about what tasks you want to do vs the contractor. I am not clear from your post but it feels like you want to do a lot yourselves? So why would a contractor want to do your project?

@Flo Mangan - We're not interested in doing a lot ourselves, although we have done most of the design work based on our own sense of aesthetics and what makes spaces efficient and comfortable for us. Mostly I just like understanding the technical details because the idea of "how a house works" is fascinating to me in the same way that "how pastry works" or "how a garden works" is fascinating. Like, there are so many little details that impact the overall outcome and such a world of hyper-specific knowledge and skills that it's just really interesting to learn about.

Hi, Addie,

Investigative work during the design of a remodeling project includes everything from determining whether walls you may be considering to have removed are structural and how to deal with it if they are. It includes investigating what might be in a ceiling or wall (electrical, plumbing, HVAC refrigerant line set, ducts, etc.) to investigating potential structural deficiencies that present as sloping floors, drywall "lightning strikes," mold, evidence of termite damage, etc. Investigative demolition might include removing drywall to have a first-hand look inside a wall or ceiling, or a less invasive approach using a fiber optic or IR camera or simply crawling around in an attic or crawl space to understand all the implications of the proposed scope of work. This isn't the kind of work typically performed by designers or architects and it's not typically a free service offered by remodelers. It is, however, the stock and trade of design-build firms.

If you're looking for a remodeler in NVA, give BOWA a call. They are an award-winning design/build firm. We did remodeling work for one of their clients who relocated from NVA to Williamsburg. They were very pleased with their experience working with BOWA. To stave off the anti-design/build comments my recommendation is likely to generate, please note that BOWA's staff includes architects and interior designers.

Like Joseph Corlett, LLC, my company doesn't work on a competitive-bid basis, either. With a 37-year reputation for quality work that's delivered on-time and on-budget, clients choose us to avoid the type of experiences reported so often here on houzz.com by folks who took a different route. If your architect promotes getting competitive bids from builders and expects them to develop proposals at no cost, please ask him/her if they're o.k. with using the same approach for design work.

I admire your desire for learning. A great trait for life. Ok, so in that case, think like you are the contractor. He/she typically loads costs in by subs tasks. For example, plumbing. There is rough plumbing and finish plumbing. Two-4 trips 2-3 hours a trip. The GC asks for bids from his/her sub with broad details. They don’t care which faucet style but number of faucets. See what I mean. There are some exceptions of course. If you install a shower with multiple heads and locations that means a lot more time. Don’t get me wrong. I use spreadsheets for every detail in my work. Usually laid out by room. The main factor is trust. Can you trust the GC to be fair, be a good problem solver and demand high enough quality to meet your requirements. These are “soft” qualities but in my experience generally the most important. In his own way, that is what Joseph was expressing to you. Most GCs that have been in business for five years or more can complete most jobs or they wouldn’t last 2 years. So the variables that matter are key to your satisfaction. Perhaps daily communication is important to you. So set that up in questions for your ultimate pick. In the end it is about confidence that this person or company will do your job to your level of satisfaction. In Texas, the GC must provide a list of subs he uses. Check them out. That is who will be doing your job!

@Charles Ross Homes and @Flo Mangan - We really appreciate the detailed follow-up information!!

Customers don't give me documents. Potential customers tell me how they were referred to me, then tell me their budget. If I can't sell them the value I offer, I don't deserve their business. I never bid.

" How have you steered your business to get to the point where you can buck the expectation of the three-bid model?"

It's difficult to say this without sounding like I'm bragging, but I invented the modern sink replacement business. I have no competition. You'll pay my rates or no Joe for you. You'll call a stone fabricator and they'll tell you to call a plumber. You'll call a plumber and they'll tell you to call a stone fabricator. I can't imagine the nightmare if you tried to coordinate these two.

That said, I wouldn't bid even if I were a run-of-the-mill remodeling company with competition. I wouldn't give free estimates, however, I would agree to a sharing of information. You'd tell me how you got my name and your budget and in return I'd tell you if your ideas were realistic for that budget. I'd ask a few other qualifying questions to see if we were right for each other. I will always control the sale. Always. If I'm doing it right, you don't know I am.

I'll be 65 years old in two months. I'm not putting up with any time wasting foolishness at this age.

Hire a good Kitchen Designer to draw up plans and specifications.