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grace_carroll47

Help me pick a Tea!

Hello!

After much deliberation I've decided I only have enough room in my garden for 2 large tea roses. I have about 35 roses but none in the tea class - what an oversight! I'm very interested in this class bc of the beautiful bloom form, scent, and most importantly the fact that they can bloom nearly year round here in California's Bay Area - yippee!


I know this selection is totally subjective, but ....if you could only have 2 teas, which would YOU have?


My short list so far is Francis Dubriel, Mrs BR Cant, Mons. Tiller, Mrs Dudley Cross, Mme Joseph Schwartz, Maman Cochet, G. Nabonnand. Eeeeek how to pair down to only 2?!


Thanks!

Comments (22)

  • 6 years ago

    To start you off easy, how about one that is super disease-free, and which I KNOW does well there. I'd go for either 'Maman Cochet' or her sport, 'Niles Cochet'. This is 'Niles Cochet,' photographed a few miles South of you, in San Juan Bautista.


    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked jerijen
  • 6 years ago

    Mlle Franziska Kruger is unbelievably floriferous. Monsieur Tillier is such a great looking plant. I love them all. Francis in not a Tea. It is good too, but smaller and not a Tea.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • 6 years ago

    Agreed, Francis IS Barcelona and a Hybrid Tea. There has never been a "Tea" with that garnet red velvet coloring and that kind of scent, both of which came from Old European Garden Roses through Hybrid Perpetuals, making this a Hybrid Tea. Any of the Cochets are a sure bet. Tillier is a horse and requires nothing from you but water. G. Nabonnand isn't as common as the others you listed, making it kind of fun. Mrs. Dudley Cross is a wonderful thing and would break up the cooler a bit to prevent it from being too monochromatic. I've never been a fan of Mme Joseph Schwartz because I have never encountered nor grown one which didn't mildew terribly. I'll tolerate a bit of black spot and perhaps even less rust when it's that time of the year and the foliage is old, but mildew is a deal breaker. So, if it were me, I'd plant Maman Cochet, Mons. Tillier and G. Nabonannd. And, I DO grow Maman and Niles, Tillier, Mrs. Dudley Cross and Mrs. B.R. Cant. I've had Francis and Schwartz but wanted TEAS to play with and won't tolerate Schwartz's mildew anymore.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked roseseek
  • 6 years ago

    I have Madame Joseph Schwartz and yes she gets mildew. She is the white sport of Duchesse De Brabant so I don’t know if DDB mildews too. I have seen mildew on my Mrs. Dudley Cross and G. Nabonnand, but both are still small plants so they might grow out of it. Mrs. Dudley Cross balls for me and has only properly opened about 10% of her blooms, the rest ball in bud stage and fall off. She only opens her blooms in 80+ heat but has set 90% of her blooms in winter and early Spring when there is not enough heat. I am giving her a third year to see if she will open those blooms. Rosette Delizy is still a one year old, but has been setting blooms like crazy along with 2 yr old Monsieur Tillier in our current 100 degree heatwave. Both set small 2 in blooms in this heat and RDs petals fry while MTs hold up. MT also has an exquisite fragrance of banana and black tea, to my nose. The only other Tea I have that I can smell anything from is Reve d’Or, which has our black tea fragrance on blooms set in cooler weather. RdO is also blooming like crazy now but once the bud opens, it is fried by the end of the day in our heat just like RD.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • 6 years ago

    MT also is very vigorous growing to 4 feet in the first year. I got him from Antique Rose Emporium. His winter blooms is where he really shines though. They are 3 to 3.5 inches and most fragrance in the cooler weather.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • 6 years ago

    General Schablikine and Madame Lambard are two more beauties. Etoile de Lyon is perfect. Good luck, I better go now.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • 6 years ago

    Mlle Franziska Kruger is lovely and I have her on my wish list with a note that she is sometimes sold as Souvenir d'Elise Vardon, mentioned here: https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5905

  • 6 years ago

    I had considered Etoile de Lyon as it was superb in Pacific Palisades but it's known for balling buds, something I don't have issues with here. Bassoues Tea mildews sometimes here but has stayed clean most of this year. And, yes Duchesse de Brabant is a mildewer. Thankfully, Mrs. Dudley Cross hasn't balled here, nor mildewed. If balling is an issue where you are, spring for Mme Antoine Mari, she's less double and opens every time. I was recently given a large own root plant of Devoniensis and am disappointed that it is mildewing here as it has everywhere else I've ever seen it, except in the mountains above Santa Rosa where it's HOT and dry. If something is going to mildew, rust or ball, they should do it here. We're 247' above sea level, nine miles from the Pacific over flat fields with MUCH marine influence. There is a nearly cold, wet breeze every night and many mornings, the dew dripping off everything makes it appear as if it's rained over night. I only wanted healthy, fertile Teas with no issues because I want to raise healthy seedlings from them. That's why I've chosen what is here.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked roseseek
  • 6 years ago

    Madame Antoine Mari is lovely! I just checked her out on HMF and she definitely has a fan club there. Also is designated as an Earth Kind rose.

  • 6 years ago

    Mme Lambard, Rubens, Angel's Camp Tea and G Nabonnand. Now you're less confused, aren't you?! Ms Tillier gets huge - think 9' high by 15' wide (that's how big mine got in 3 years), but as long as he gets plenty of water, he's a star.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked titian1 10b Sydney
  • 6 years ago

    I live in the Bay area in the same zone as you, but in an area that often has morning fog overhead during the summer. I had trouble with Maman Cochet and MFK balling. Bon Silene and G. Nabonnand have had some mildew problems, and Bon Silene is huge (it must be over 15 feet tall). The best two for me (in my limited experience) have been Madame Berkeley and General Schablikine. Madame Berkeley is a gangly grower, but about 8' x 8' after five or six years, and very floriferous with blooms that vary from pink to apricot to buff based on the weather. General Schablikine is the best in the winter, but blooms all year round, and has had no disease issues. The color is a brighter coppery red.

  • 6 years ago

    Le Vesuve. It is either a tea or a china, (there is a dispute), but it looks like a tea with the bigger blossoms, etc. It LOVES the heat even more than my other teas do, so perhaps it is a china after all. Blooms here 11 months of the year, and is healthy with no spraying. Mine are all on their own roots, and get to be 6-8 feet in all directions.


    The below one is only about 2 years old - it will get bigger!




    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked jacqueline9CA
  • 6 years ago

    Madame Antoine Mari could be my best here too. I can see you have a problem, picking 2, Grace.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    General Schablikine has similarities to Monsieur Tillier. HMF has no parentage information for either and they are attributed to different breeders, but very similar coloring and habit descriptions. The Members Comments section for GS mention its fragrance has mixed tea and fruit, so very similar to my experience of MT having fragrance of bananas and tea. I looked through some of the photos and some stages of the bloom look identical. I bought MT since the one at Huntington is 8 feet and looks like a beautiful small tree with stout trunck.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • 6 years ago

    My previous pic of MT is a 1yr plant. Today after 18 months. Time flys, hasn’t been 2 yrs; I planted it Feb 2019. That fence is 6 feet.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I live in San Francisco in the fogbelt. Two of the very best roses for me are Duchesse de Brabant, which starts blooming in March, and Monsieur Tillier. They get quite a lot of shade but they seem perfectly happy, and also are fine during the heatwaves that we've had more often recently. (Rhodologue Jules also did very well this year though in past years his blooms would ball, and William R. Smith puts out lovely blooms but does blackspot.) My Lady Hillingdon is still very small and young, hasn't bloomed much yet, but she also has very clean foliage and the few blooms have been beautiful. Blackspot is the main problem here though there is also plenty of rust (not much mildew), but DdB and MT just don't seem to care at all. They also don't seem to be bothered much at all by the rose slugs, which visit us early and often.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked shebabee
  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I should add that while I can't always smell them, they both have wonderful fragrances. Not powerful or wafting for me but very distinctive. It was about three years before DDB had much fragrance for me; MT blooms were fragrant from the start.

    Grace Carroll Zone 10a thanked shebabee
  • 6 years ago

    Are there Teas that don't shrink bloom size in hot weather? As I survey my Teas in this hot weather I see that Rosette Delizy and Monsieur Tillier have 1.75-2 inch blooms. Madame Joseph Schwartz, sport of DDB, and Reve d'Or have slightly larger 2.5 inch blooms. My very young and small G. Nabonnand had one bloom in this heat that was 2.5-3 inches.

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Here, Etoile de Lyon, Madame Antoine Mari, MFK, Maman Cochet, RJGrav, Madame Lambard, BHdSnoy, seem to be the largest blooms in heat. Some others shut down in heat which makes it had to tell. How much water each plant gets may be a factor here too.

  • 6 years ago

    My Monsieur Tillier is indeed showing smaller (but more) blooms -- we just had a heatwave here, though now it's back to the usual chilly and foggy. But Duchesse de Brabant's blooms have been the usual size -- both have just started a new flush. DdB's coloration was brighter/warmer pink and less silvery pink than she is in the chill, at least that's what I observe.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    @grace-carroll47

    Grace, did you end up getting two Teas for your garden?