Geographic location?

How much of a crown spread of the red oak are you allowing for?

big city name ..

i hope you are planting them at least 30 to 50 feet apart ... if not.. thats a lot of trees for a small suburban lot

converting to the proper latin name;. look at the more mature trees at this link ... they never stop growing.. in this century anyway ...

do the same with the latin names of the other two trees ...

ken

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=Quercus+rubra&iax=images&ia=images

My apologies. I live in Toronto, Canada.

I have 20-30 feet for each tree. I know it's kind of tight to fit in the two. I am trying to select species that are smaller.

Look for Green Column Sugar Maple or FlashFire Sugar Maple. The latter will be more red.

Thank you for all your help. I will look up the suggestions. Hopefully the nursery in my area offer these choices.

If you can wait until fall I'd suggest visiting the nurseries or an arboretum and see what the plants are doing for fall color. Seed grown red oaks can be quite variable in their fall color. For the maples, some are known to color consistently year to year and location to location. Others can be very regional in the quality and consistency of their fall color.

i hope you understand.. or dont care.. that in about 20 years.. you will not have grass under these trees.. because of water competition.. and or darkness ... unless you prune them up rather high ...

ken

@pennlake Thank you. Yes I can wait, the only problem is the nursery I am in contact with has limited quantities... I don't know if they will get more in by Fall or what's remaining will be sold before I get to see the color change. They do have the bigger sized trees in wire baskets though, but I can't manage to plant those. Too big. They do not have many quantities for the pot-sized trees. I am also a little hesitated to pick one from there before I can see the actual colors.

@Embothrium Thank you. I kind of share the same concern but I have seen trees in wild that were grown very close to each other and they've figured out a way to get along after so many years so I am thinking... maybe mine would be able to as well? I am not 100% sure about that honestly but I need two trees there to fill the space and I really like both Oak and Maple. I have asked the same question with an arborist and he said it would be fine for the next 20+ years and might become a little worrisome after maybe 30 years. At least I will have a good 20-30 years with my trees. I am considering planting October Glory after my look up. It seems pretty "color proven" from the reviews I've read and it is smaller than sugar maple. The only thing I am uncertain is its color. I don't know if I will get orange from this tree. I'd like to have both orange and red from the maple.

@ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5 Thank you Ken. You have asked a good question. I haven't thought about this. I am turning my lawn into something like clover + grass because lawn used too much water... Is clover not going to grow under the trees as well? If so... what grows under these trees? Or nothing at all? Maybe this is another topic... how do people landscape around trees?

@whaas_5a Thank you. It seems like the nursery I am in contact with doesn't offer the two maples you suggested. Here are what they offer for maples, all maples.

Amur

Armstrong

Armstrong Gold

Autumn Blaze

Autumn Fantasy

Brandywine

Celebration

Columnar

Columnar Sugar

Crimson King

Crimson Sentry

Deborah

Emerald Queen

Fairview

Green Mountain Sugar

Harlequin

Hedge

Karpick

Legacy Sugar

October Glory

Paperbark

Princeton Gold

Red

Redpointe

Royal Red

Silver

Sugar

Paperpark (small), otherwise Redpointe. I also like Autumn Fantasy but that will get to 30' wide

@whaas_5a Thank you. I just looked up Paperpark. Its fall color is very nice but it is not a native species. I am trying to plant native species if possible. It is interesting that you mentioned Redpointe. One of the nursery staff also suggested this species. When I asked about October Glory, he said he would go with Redpointe because it doesn't have the "leaf galls" problem as OG or other maples. Did you suggest based on the same reason? Or size/color? Do you happen to know the fall colors for Redpointe and Autumn Fantasy? How do they look like?

May I ask questions about sugar maples vs red maples?

When you decide to plant a maple tree, is sugar maple always your first choice? What factors do you consider when making your decision towards choosing either a sugar maple or red maple? I was advised to plant sugar maple because it is a "good tree". Is red maple not a good tree?

I hope I didn't confuse you with my questions. I love maples because of their looks and the fall colors. But I am also trying to understand the pros and cons for both sugar maple and red maple other than the fall colors.

Thanks again for addressing my questions. Really appreciated!!!

@whaas_5a Thank you for your suggestions. I will make a note and visit the nursery again in Fall. Hopefully they still have Repointe at that time. I saw OG, Redpointe, and Brandywine last week in the tree yard I kind of like Brandywine for its foliage but I am not sure if I want a wine color maple next the red oak. Here is a picture I have taken for Brandywine:

Choosing between Sugar and Red Maple

Sugar

Well drained soils

Moderate drought tolerance

Doesn't like compacted soil

Doesn't like wet soil

Doesn't like pollution

Generally orange to yellow fall color

Generally not an aggressive root system compared to other american maples

Red

Wet or dry soils

Overall not finicky

Can not plant in alkaline soils

Generally red fall color

Fasts grower - nurseries love to sell them

Sugar is considered a more stately tree and outlives Red maple by a long shot.

Some even consider red maple a "weedy" tree.

Redpointe is generally more desirable red maple as its fall color is consistent, its footprint is a bit more compact and reportedly better adapted to neutral to slightly alkaline soils. I don't know why the latter would be possible unless its a hybrid. All maples are susceptible to galls - not sure if some are more or less but I see it on Silver Maples all the time.

Planting natives is great but don't just plant natives.

Non natives are just as important in some cases.

Generally Autumn Fantasy will be a bit more deep like a ruby color.

I love Autumn Fantasy due to its impeccable branching structure.

I've tried Red Maples and they just don't work with slightly alkaline.

Haven't specifically tried Redpointe though.

Hopefully the nursery in my area offer these choices.

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everything is available by mail .... if you are willing to buy small enough

nurseries usually do not take delivery in fall .. hardware stores do ...

quality nurseries plan delivery for late winter or early spring... they make those orders in fall ... so if you want a tree bad enough... you talk to the manager.. and have her order in what you want.. in the size you want.. for spring delivery ...

pretty sure whaas above mail ordered just about everything.. and has a list of valued vendors for just about anything ... if he doesnt.. i dont mean to be putting words in his mouth ... i believe there are older posts about said vendors.. but so many have closed recently.. that post might be out of date ....

ken

Thank you @whaas_5a. I will make sure to look at the fall colors for Redpointe and Autumn Fantasy. Maybe I will pick one from the two, or I may find something different. I will keep you posted. Thanks for all the details!

Where do you live @ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5? Is there any nursery you can walk in and select trees that are in stock (in the tree yard)? The nursery I am in contact with is a wholesaler but I guess because of the economy they start to take retail orders now.

If you're inclined to go with a red maple, I would definitely go Redpointe. I planted 2 last year, and couldn't be happier. Most red maples look chlorotic in my area, but my Redpointes have had a nice darker green foliage all summer. Granted, they've only been in the ground 1 year, but still, I'm pretty happy with it. Last fall...their first fall for me, they were a medium red...almost medium burgundy color. Very nice.

Green mountain sugar or Redpointe are both great choices...you can't go wrong. Sugar maple will be noticeably slower growing compared to your red oak...so if you want a similar growth rate I would go Redpointe.

Redpointe is most likely a Freeman hybrid (Acer x freemanii.) That's why it can tolerate soils that are not very acidic and has a faster growth rate. The leaves, overall shape, and reddish fall color looks quite similar to Autumn Blaze, another Freeman hybrid, to me. Redpointe is a J. Frank Schmidt tree. In the link, Keith Warren tells why he doesn't label it a Freeman hybrid:

https://landscapeplants.oregonstate.edu/plants/acer-rubrum-redpointe

Red maples (Acer rubrum) on the other hand, are not fast growers in comparison, in my experience. They are slow to moderate in growth, on par with a typical sugar maple. That would be your October Glory and Brandywine choices.

Fall color can be a real crapshoot. A bright, reddish-orange fall sugar maple in a nursery holding yard can be a peachy-yellow once established in your yard, in your soil, with your local weather.

Where do you live @ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5?

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as my name suggests... i am in adrian MI ... its cold.. lol ...

one hour from me is a place like this: https://geefarms.com/

and im pretty sure there are some up lansing MI way .... it takes a bit to rule out the xmas tree farms ...

the silly thing is.. when i bought 40 6 foot bare root trees.. oaks ... ash [bummer.. it was before the bug] .. and some others .. i drove 3.5 hours one way to wade tree farm in belleville OH ... but that was because the owner was a hosta friend ...

also.. i got many 3 to 4 foot trees mail order from across the country ....

take the time to find precisely what you want ...

ken

I read that link and it sound like a crock of shiznit in order to differentiate with the patent.

Does that leaf not look exaclty like a hybrid?

@Joe Williams Thank you Joe for sharing your experience with Redpointe. I didn't know much about Redpointe before, I will definitely check it out. Yes I would like my maple to have a similar growth with red oak, so that they look nicer years down the road. I feel it may look kind of awkward (well, still acceptable) to have one big tree and one small tree standing together... Just a thought.

I personally love everything in red. It makes me feel warm in the cold season. I love orange too, though not as much as red. The dilemma with red maple and sugar maple is that I am a little hesitant to put another red tree next to the red oak... I am not sure if they will look good together, or it will be too much red? But I personally prefer red maple ...

@mntreegrower Thank you. Appreciated the details you shared. I read the link but I don't think I get it... How do you differentiate a red maple and a red maple hybrid? By the leaf? By the shape of the tree? I saw images of October Glory and Brandywine to be oval/round shape and Redpointe and Autumn Blaze to be broad and sort of spiky shape. By the way, what are the pros and cons for red maple vs red maple hybrid? Other than the growth rate?

@ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5 My apologies, I must be blind... Yes you did have your location in your name lol... I think we share the same garden zone. Well, Toronto is pretty cold too. We had zone 4 winters over the last few years and we have a horrible hot summer this year. The weather has become quite crazy in the recent years.

Your nursery has quite a few selection on maple... on everything as well I suppose... I had a hard time understanding what's what because they go by Latin names and I am not familiar... But I saw quite a few maples! and all very nice selection too!

I am envious that you have 40 trees. That must be an awesome view.

I will probably visit another nursery close to my home, or maybe a few more (if I can find). I am taking my time to learn and hopefully I will get precisely what I want. [Fingers crossed]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and thoughts. All are very helpful. I appreciate them.

@whaas_5a I have no idea how to tell a hybrid apart ...

Freeman maples blend characters of red and silver maples together so that it can be hard to tell where a given example fits on the spectrum. Meanwhile the big fat Michael Dirr & Keith Warren Tree Book (2019, Timber Press, Portland) reports that REDPOINTE ('Frank Jr') is now a best seller at J Frank Schmidt, is "highly sought after for China's limestone soils", and has been a hit in Europe.

@Embothrium Interesting. Totally didn't know that. I thought either October Glory or Autumn Blaze is still the best seller. Good to know. Thanks for sharing!

According to the book 'Frank Jr' is the top selling tree for Schmidt - not the entire marketplace.