I don't understand it at all. It is selfish and, dare I say, stupid. Definitely not worth the risk. When everything shut down, our belle-fille was pregnant (high risk with twins) and we have self-quarantined since then except for occasional grocery trips and recently a couple of medical visits. We will continue as long as it takes.

ETA: After insisting that schools open with in-person classes, Gov. Santis of Florida is not allowing local government and schools to release their virus statistics, so individual teachers and others are releasing info on FB. One district has over 1,000 students who tested positive. I am glad our schools opened with virtual instruction.

I really hesitate to comment here, but nonetheless: in my state there is a widespread distrust of testing. Many feel the testing is inaccurate and heavily weighed toward false positives because of financial reasons.

Plus, our governor has left guidelines and rulemaking for exposure/positives/quarantining to county health department officials, whom many persons feel are not equipped to intelligently hold that much power and are much too strict.

Of course, these things may not be true in other states.

Backing out of here now.

I ask myself the same question all the time.

What is wrong with people? How much time do you have?

^^^ Yep.

The wedding in Maine on August where a rash of Covid infections (over 147 so far, with 3 deaths of people who didn't attend, but came in contact with people who did), is shown in this story as of Sept. 4. https://www.necn.com/news/national-international/third-person-linked-to-maine-wedding-dies-of-covid-19/2319508/

The church in Sanford, ME, whose pastor officiated at the wedding, has had a surge of Covid cases. The pastor doesn't think masks are needed, or any social distancing. York, the county that Sanford is in, has had to delay their school openings due to the large number of Covid cases in the community since the wedding. Maine CDC investigating COVID-19 outbreak at Calvary Baptist Church in Sanford

I really don't understand people who believe info about a pandemic from politicians who have no background in science or medicine, and quite often have something to gain politically by omitting important info or slanting it to meet their needs. Why would you not believe the information/recommendations coming from the epidemiologists or public health officials who spend their life dealing with these kind of issues? I have to assume these people are unwilling or incapable of doing any research themselves or are just being terribly selfish. I think too many people get their news from one source and accept it as gospel.

My bet is that Nov 4, many Governors will impose stricter mandates on school attendance, social distancing, mask wearing and business shutdowns.

Many feel the testing is inaccurate and heavily weighed toward false positives because of financial reasons.

That's because they are getting their "information" from YouTube and Facebook posts! Covidiots!

Just yesterday, a friend told me that her father is hospitalized with pneumonia, and tested positive for Covid. She thinks that he really doesn't have Covid, but that they say he does to get more money.

I can understand someone being skeptical of for-profit experts, but those who have dedicated their lives to public service?? They may not get it perfect every time, (if you thought science was infallible you missed a big part of what science is, often trial and ERROR, but self-correcting by more trial, and discussion). From a mindset perspective though, lots of people don't have the patience and personality for that kind of problem, they want quick simple answers and solutions, that are infallible and unchangeable . . . so I can well understand why they are confused and angry. But those who know better should not purposely spread disinformation. But anger and fear also turns off the calm and rational part of the brain. Doctors and other people in other fields where they have to deal with high stress working conditions, are trained to remain calm and rational under stress. The rest of us could well take up some of their discipline. Folks activate the fear and anger part of the brain to make you vulnerable. Well known technique in sales, "Help, I've fallen and I can't get up!" "Buy gold now for security in these uncertain times!" "I am now completely cancer-free due to this vitamin regime . . . " lather rinse repeat. It has worked since the dawn of time . . . and failed too, but it's biological in origin.

Edited to add that if your relative has pneumonia and ends up sicker and spending a longer time in the hospital due to covid, then they DO cost more, diagnosed or not . . . so that's kinda weird logic . . . and if your local hospitals are routinely committing medicare or medicaid fraud, you should have been on that before the pandemic. Fraud is still illegal and can be investigated and prosecuted. But it is important for the hospital staff to know what type of pneumonia your relative has, so they can treat it properly, And no matter what the disease, if you have a highly communicable disease, the hospital wants to test for that and know so they can protect the staff treating you, in addition to knowing what treatments are likely to work.

As for the accuracy of various testing regimes, it can be known, and its reliability can be quantified. In order to know it, you have to record the data, verify it's accuracy, and provide the data gatherers the resources to do their jobs well. No testing is perfect, but the level of accuracy is a knowable fact.

Exactly the reasons why I had reservations about posting on this thread - name-calling, anger, and politics. I won’t do it again.

littlebug, you stated — “ our governor has left guidelines and rulemaking for exposure/positives/quarantining to county health department officials, whom many persons feel are not equipped to intelligently hold that much power and are much too strict.”

Please explain why people think the guidelines are too strict? I have relatives in Missouri and they are hoping for tighter controls.

Maddie Lee: Presumably your friends live in a different county than me. There is no statewide coordination between our county health departments. Rules vary.

Missouri isn’t different then other states. Here (Florida) each county decides what restrictions to impose. I think that’s true for most states.

eta: after reading the post below, yes there are some Statewide regulations but other regulations vary by county.

Wow, our state had an early statewide plan and mandate that varied from county to county depending on the numbers affected in each one. The counties were free to impose stricter guidelines but not to ignore the statewide one. I am so pleased with the leadership in our state (WA) to try to bring this thing under control.

My 96 y.o. ant with advanced Alzheimers was shriveling away for months because she would not eat on her own anymore. Was down to 84 lbs with large bedsores. She had no temp or breathing problems. She died and was listed as a Covid death because she tested "positive" once, weeks before her death.

I'm not buying she died of Covid-19.

Covid is and has been underreported from the beginning. My son was not tested when he was ill in April because his dr said the state didn't want to "spend" a test on him, though his wife was hospitalized with Covid at the time.

My daughter-in-law is currently hospitalized for the second time since April with this awful scourge. She has not yet recovered from that bout. She does not currently test positive, but she is and has been having great difficulty breathing since she was diagnosed, and has been unable to return full time to her job as a nurse because she cannot breathe well, has bodily aches and pains, no appetite, brain fog, and has no stamina.

If she dies, it will be from complications of Covid. If she spends the rest of her life at limited capacity, it will be from complications of Covid. Do not underestimate the consequences of this disease. Wear a mask, socially distance, and isolate yourselves.

Another son is a hospital pathologist. He would never misdiagnose a patient for any reason, much less to get get more money for a Covid dx. I resent the implications.

Many survivors of Covid19 will be dealing with the health complications of this disease for the rest of their lives. We have no idea what permanent and long-term damage is being done.

Sheesh, I am so sorry your DIL is ill.

Loon, I’m impressed you can keep an ant alive so long.

Thank you, kswl.

My former home state of PA, a large and geographically diverse state, grouped counties together and divided up the state into regions for decisions regarding openings and closings, based on aggregate data from the counties which are managed by the health departments. Of course people always want perfection, and to some degree, the divisions were arbitrary, but you have to draw lines somewhere and when creating public policy, you can't meet everyone's perfect individual situation, you have to figure out what does the least harm and the most good for the most number. I wouldn't lay awake nights if part of my house was in one county and part in the other with different rules. I'd respect the principle and use common sense. Why nitpick, when most of the nitpicking is over issues of little consequence. If public health departments are struggling, what can we do to fix that? Can they be improved, sure. So get on that. Stop armchair quarterbacking is my thought. We had quite a bit of suffering in our family due to restrictions, our son-in-law and his family were almost homeless due to a hold up in their housing inspection, but we just kept working on solving the problem, and eventually we did. In my state, there is a group that almost seems to be paid to complain about everything, even though the state almost all on its own is making huge strides in research, innovation, and problem solving, particularly with regards to testing. Retrofits for businesses are happening. Lots of folks working on home solutions. I'm hoping we can have some "warp speed" for how we secure nursing home facilities and yet provide stimulation and socializing for patients. We need the same for schools. Disease spread was a problem in both public spaces even before covid. Win win.

Edited to add that part of the reason I am so worried about getting covid is my long term health was already dealt significant blows by other flu pandemics in the past ten years. Some folks heal quicker and easier than others, and if you're one who does not, you get it . . .

Count me among those who can’t believe people are so selfish and stupid as to keep socializing and meeting in large numbers as if there is an immunity shield around them.

Interested in what a supercomputer analysis comes up with regarding what Covid does to the body? This is technical but explained in a readable way. Yes, I know computer analysis is only as good as the input, but this is good stuff. And this particular computer is no slouch, and the team that did the work isn’t either.

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

The thing I most do not understand is - why not get tested if the health department is asking you to do so? If it's part of an investigation I'm sure they have a way to do the test at no cost if needed. I suppose worst case is you have a false positive result and have to unnecessarily quarantine for two weeks and can't go to work which could be a hardship for some. But you'd also have to believe Covid isn't really a threat to you or anyone you care about to risk spreading it around. I can't imagine anyone would have that belief if they knew someone who had a serious bout of the disease.

Politicians make it a political issue. People make their own decisions based on a variety of factors in their lives. If people in this country are so gullible they're making their Covid decisions based on what some idiot politician says or does our decline and fall is definitely underway. Frankly I think more decisions are made based on crazy, erroneous social media feeds which is another decline and fall factor in my humble opinion.

Stay safe - stay positive - be kind!!

My son had Covid-19 and then got pneumonia as one of the side effects of the virus. He is beginning to recover, but slowly. He was ill in April and May, so recovering from the ravages of the virus takes a long time. Covid-19 is a dangerous disease.

Thank you, Outside, for that link to a most interesting article! I’ve forwarded it to a Covid denier who has great respect for the Oak Ridge facility.

Sheesh, I hope that your family members recover fully. 🤗

Outside, I read that article earlier this week. Very interesting, I've never heard of bradykinin, but I'm not a medical professional. Sure sounds like it might explain a lot of the weird symptoms. Most importantly, once it's know how the virus works in the body they are better able to develop treatments.

Suero, we know how difficult it is to watch our beloved family members suffer with this disease, the worry and feelings of rage and impotence because we are unable to help and comfort them. I hope your son makes a full recovery soon. Science is learning much about how to handle this.

I have never in my life experienced such feelings of rage as I do against those who continue to socialize, who demand that we reopen the country and restaurants, etc., who insist that we put our teachers and students in the line of fire. Selfish and stupid is right.

Sheesh, all the best to you and your family.

Kswl, thanks for the laugh!😉

Thank you, teriks.

"I'm not buying she died of Covid-19"

I'm sorry when anyone loses a family member or someone else they love, whatever the cause.

But it really doesn't matter whether you buy the cause or not. If all the vulnerable people with comorbidities, who died as a result of contracting the disease, were discounted in the stats, the numbers would be lower. But they still would have died at the time they did as a result of contracting the virus. Stats or no stats. What do you care if it's counted as a Covid death or not? Maybe the higher the death count, the more seriously people will take it and take precautions, saving many others. There is no loss to anyone by more people wearing masks with the hope to prevent the spread.

suero and sheesh I hope there are healthier days and full recoveries ahead for your family members.

We had a 'visit' in our town today from the chip off the old block, a rally and stump speech for a very young local running for Mark Meadows old seat - held at a local winery (which I will never visit again). But I watched it live on my computer and as expected, seating was shoulder to shoulder, few masks seen. It was maddening on many levels but knowing we live among idiots and repeatedly seeing the proof is infuriating.

It stands to reason that there are likely many more people carrying this virus, likely without significant symptoms, than current testing is turning up, simply because not everyone is being tested. In some areas tests are reserved for people with symptoms, &/or only those with symptoms are getting tested. Is there mandatory across the board testing anywhere?

Also early on not everyone was tested, because it was difficult to obtain a test, and people may have been sick with, or died of COVID, but not been recorded as such.

What percentage of our populace have been tested? I haven't.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But they're not entitled to their own facts. For some reason, that confuses a lot of people. Science = facts. Politics = opinion. When people say, "I just feel.... or I just think....." that tends to be opinion purposefully disregarding the facts. I wouldn't care if people's casual disregard of the facts didn't impact me, but it does, and pretty damn seriously.

3katz4me, how can they even have a wedding with 275 guests? The issue with the Maine breakout was that cases were really low until then.

Sheesh, and Suero, I'm sorry to hear of your family members' illnesses.

Our campus started back to some face to face and hybrid instruction this week. I don't want to see cases climb, but it will happen. I am teaching 100% online, although I am so tired from hours of zoom from pretty much 11-4 with only a few breaks. I am glad my live teaching is only two days per week. Need to go to bed. Trying to watch NFL.

There is widespread testing going on at many colleges. It is interesting to me bc they are finding so many asymptomatic cases that way. My oldest has been at college 2 weeks and has been tested twice so far. These are routine tests, not bc he was exposed or has symptoms. Negative both times. He also got a test before he went bc he had contact with a positive asymptomatic person a couple of weeks before he left. He is at a small, private school so they are able to do a good job of contact tracing and isolating if (when) they get cases.

My friends with kids at larger schools are having similar experiences with the testing. It’s harder at the big schools to do the tracing, but certainly easier than in the general population. Many of the large universities in our state that have had significant outbreaks have gone all online to help prevent spread. They aren’t sending the kids home for the most part (thank goodness!) My son is having a mix of in person and online. I wish the general population could be tested like college students! I think we would really see some progress if we could test that much.

ICE flew detainees to Virginia so the planes could transport agents to D.C. protests. A huge coronavirus outbreak followed.

Sheesh-I am so very sorry about your daughter in law. I pray that she is restored to health.

Just in case you were wondering if it is possible to get the coronavirus twice, the answer is yes. My granddaughter started school this past week. She came down with the virus and passed it to my son, the one who had just recovered from his earlier bout.

I, too, am sorry, Sheesh and Suero. I can't imagine the worry you've been feeling.

What frustrates me are people who point to early directives and guidelines that were based on very little research, and that have since been updated (like the value of wearing masks) and then make vast claims like, "Fauci used to say masks weren't helpful so we can't trust anything that anyone says!"

I came across this article today:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-things-we-have-learned-about-covid-20200910-7omc6p4a2bf6pee2ymkyok6hvi-story.html

Yes, many initial assumptions about the virus have since changed. (I no longer disinfect all my incoming groceries, for example.) But we can't dismiss continued research that's ongoing today just because some of the initial understandings weren't on target. I'd say our scientific community has been incredibly responsive and offered clarification in just a few short months. Let's give them some credit.

Feathers, that's a great point. I listened to a podcast on this topic once, and the scientists were saying, "That is science in a nutshell. We know stuff until we don't."

I live in the great state of Wisconsin. It has become a great political divide. Our govenor issued an extention of the original shutdown and it was challenged by the other party. State Supreme Court ruled it was unlawful. Late summer he issued a mask requirement. Many municipal police departments went on record saying they wouldn't enforce it. So that mandate is mostly ignored. With colleges and k-12 starting up our new case numbers per day are sky rocketing this week. Many k-12 schools opened completely face face. It makes me so sad.

Sadness is everywhere these days, it seems.

And those false logic arguments are either insincere or just plain ignorant, IMO - of course we'll keep gaining more knowledge on this - it's a novel virus!

"That is science in a nutshell. We know stuff until we don't."

And conversely we don't know stuff until we do.

I think that it's just amazing how much they have learned since February!

It's amazing how much has been learned since February that continues to be ignored or dismissed by the covidiots.

This post got me thinking about when my husband and I were planning our wedding. We had a tiny guest list (12) in a destination location. We put down a large deposit ahead of time, plus all the other items like invitations, wedding attire, etc. It made me feel a lot of sympathy and sorrow for all the couples out there who planned to wed this year and have likely invested a lot of time and money into their weddings. I don't mean to defend or suggest what these couples should or shouldn't do, but my heart aches at the emotional and financial impact.

Regarding testing, one issue might be people who simply cannot financially afford to miss work and live in areas where tests are taking 5-10 days to return. In those cases, they are required to quarantine while waiting for the test and could potentially lose their much needed jobs if they take that much time off. I don't know if this is the case, but not everyone has the luxury that I would have to quarantine and still be able to work remotely.

^^^Regarding testing/taking time off. This is where the government can make a huge difference by either directly paying people to stay home, or paying them via their employer. I believe that Germany and other countries that have a better handle on Covid have done this.

“It's amazing how much has been learned since February that continues to be ignored or dismissed by the covidiots“

This! I went searching and found a post I made in early February, about the same time one of Bob Woodward’s recordings was made. Reading through it shows how much we did not know at the time. (Yes, our government leaders should have informed us- IMHO.)

February 8, 2020 Coronavirus - Travel Plans?