Glad this technology is really panning out.

Marie K thanks for that info.

@Stephen D We've just had a problem getting straight answers from the early adopters of Invisicook posting here. It appears to me that they see the many drawbacks to the tech and they just don't like feeling bad about their purchase so they won't answer direct questions, provide videos or make it clear its not their primary cooktop, or it turns out its in their guesthouse... or their photos show no ventilation above cooktop so they can't be serious cooks. It's always something. Having a seemingly unstable founder of Invisicook joining the discussion months ago did nothing for confidence in the technology at least with me.

For example, I'm an early adopter of the GE heat pump washer/dryer as I state above. I love everything about it. If you want answers about it, dry times, videos, tech support... just ask. You'll have them right away not next month and not just 5 second videos. You can see in this thread there are almost 500 comments and no definitive answers until your statement about it being the SAME as your Bosch induction and you preferring it. When I say IT, I mean the Cooking Surface Prime unit you have. You have a third option not mentioned by the OP. It's not Invisicook or TPB it is CSP.... 3 different companies, right?

My first thoughts:

Having a loose controller is just a negative all the way around, but adapting it to a pop out helps.

Having a strong counter is not something anyone is worried about, not a selling point... Having a totally HIDDEN cook surface is what it's all about it.

Not having Wifi to automatically turn on the vent when the cooktop is turned on is a drawback.

Yes, going with a glass surface induction instead of hidden can be challenge to keep it unmarred but I'd planned on cooking through a silicone sheet to keep it new looking and make grease clean up easier. I would hope a good caulk job would keep the food out of the seams.

I'd still be wary of those metal feet on your pans marring the counter surface. Those are metal feet, are they not?

So this unit is slower to boil water than the Bosch induction? How much slower?

Having to control the power levels of induction elements using a tiny remote control -- that can adjust only one element at a time -- or a phone app, and a cooktop with no markings that show the locations of induction elements, no element boundary markings, and no indicators nearby that show power levels or even elements' status (on/off) seems downright bonkers.

If you were to ask an engineer to come up with the worst possible UI, it would be this. It's like driving down a road with no lane markings, the gas pedal in the glove box, and the speedometer in the back seat.

@Paul F. I understand. What's interesting in that invisacook seems to have the most opinions and videos online. Most of the videos showed someone boiling water in a frying pan which made me a bit sceptical. I thought my story and opinions may help other so the following is what I felt from hands on with each unit

My first demo was the invisacook unit. It was a 4 burner unit under 12mm Dekton. Initially the salesman put some water in a frying pan so I asked him to fill a normal pan. It did manage to get a medium size pan of water to boil (attached a photo of this) but I just felt it was too slow and not hot enough to deal with cooking with large pans. I was pretty gutted at the time because I had my heart set on one!

I my second demo was TPB tech unit in London. Tied this is with a trip with our kids :)They have a showroom in twickenham with a working unit and you can view samples of most of their stone choices. They give you a completely bespoke setup with as many inductors as you want in any arrangement. Their inductors are really powerful and controls usually built into the stone surface. With their units you are completely tied into using their stone surfaces. The salesmen there were really helpful. I would definitely recommend the TPB tech units but for me it was the look that put me off. Their surface is made of layers so in a side on view you see stone on the top followed by a metal plate and then a layer of black or white bakelite. They do not recommend mitred downstands so there is no way to avoid seeing this. I also did not find a stone finish that I could fall in love with. They did not do any with a matt textured finish. My favourite surface they had was one called crotone pulpis but it was more of a satin finish. I should probably say that this layered approach to the surface is what makes their unit special. It has pretty incredible drop resistance and heat dissipation. Shame the compromise is the aesthetics.

My third demo was the cooking surface prime. This was at Blooms stones showroom in London. They are a stone supplier and I was able to have a demo with a 3 burner unit and also view full size slabs of a lot of the ABK stone samples. I was able to take home some samples and was able to order some more to be posted out. I had a demo boiling cold water in a pan and this came to the boil quickly (similar speed to what I was used to with my current induction unit at the time). I loved a lot of the ABK stone samples and their units allow use of 20mm porcelain. I decided to go with their own stone for a warranty but also because the surface I picked called vintage stone fog was almost identical to Dekton Kreta which I really liked. Their units come in a 3 or 4 burner configuration. I chose the 3 burner because it has a larger more powerful ring. Their units come with 3 non sticks stainless steel frying pans and 3 stainless steel pans all with feet to raise them off the surface. The largest pan in 26cm and holds 8 litres. I often cook large quantities and freeze things so this is great for that. Power setting goes upto 9. Typically reduce this to between 3-6 to keep a rolling boil. I love cooking and use the unit most days. I am going to continue to post videos on YouTube to help people get an idea of it works.

Hi Stephen,

Your review is so helpful. I'm at the planning stage of a house and have fallen in love with the idea of the integrated hob.

Really appreciate it, I now know where to look!

Naomi

@PaulF. We started looking at the Miele Steam when we began getting planning approval a few yrs back. Would you recommend the GE Combo over the Miele Steam Washer and Dryer? We are planning on running on almost 100% solar so electrical savings is important (our city won't allow gas lines). We will be at KBIS so if you have thoughts on what's new, in general, we should also look at would love your input.

@tapattee I've always been fascinated by the idea of a combo washer/dryer but the reviews have been terrible forever. With most combo units you get a tiny little 2.7cu 220v machine that takes hours just to dry one comforter.

GE took the all the negatives on combo washers and fixed them with just 850 watts... my calculations is that is about 25 cents of electricity per load. I can't imagine finding a better machine for a solar home on the market right now.

The overlooked benefits of the machine are that the laundry room will not be hot, it will not be humid and there is NO smell of laundry soap in the air. The machine could be easily be in a master closet (with water and a drain) and your clothes in the closet wouldn't start smelling like a laundromat.

I'm going to KBIS in 10 days and I hope to find another combo that uses a heat pump the way GE has done... I'd like one shorter than the GE's 47 inches height and more color choices other than dark gray. I'm about to have cabinets made and don't want something made needlessly high. I'll just move this one into my rental. Also I'm hoping for more hidden induction options or at least the release of the long delayed 7000 series Miele induction cooktop.

@PaulF Thanks for the info. Our w/d will be in our closet area so you hit the mark for us. We're signed up for Whirlpool's demos on the first day of KBIS at 4 pm. They have a w/d combo. Maybe we'll see you there. We're also going on the hunt for an undercounter induction too. At the moment we are leaning towards Invisicook because they are more within our price range. I've learned alot on this forum so I have lots of questions for them.

Sorry if I’m asking you to repeat yourself, but did you have a traditional induction prior and if so how do the features compare? Asking because we are in the process of designing our new kitchen and our current kitchen has induction and I adore it. But the new kitchen I’m going back-and-forth on whether or not to go with the invisible induction, stick with the traditional or maybe do both. I have also contemplated doing an invisible induction on the island and a gas cooktop elsewhere because Everyone but me loves gas stoves.

Hi Julie, I had a standard 60cm induction glass induction unit before the cooking surface prime and a gas hob before that. My old induction unit was pretty basic compared to some of the new glass induction units. A lot of the glass units now have bridging function to link multiple inductors and separate boost functions/ timers etc. The cooking surface prime controller has a timer but no bridging function. The fan on the cooking surface prime is slightly noisier than my last induction hob but you don’t really notice this once you start cooking. I don’t miss the gas at all. In my opinion the only benefit of gas is for wok cooking. I used to hate cleaning our gas hob.

Hey everyone please come back here and let us know what you find out at KBIS on the Invisacook. Thanks

@tapattee I hope this Whirlpool combo is better than the one they introduced there last year. I'll check it out too. You know that the IBS (terrible acronym) International Builders Show is going on at the same time there too, right? I'm checking that out as well.

I will report back on all hidden inductions that I can.

I saw on recent episode of “This Old House” an induction cooktop where you could put a pot anywhere on the rectangular cooktop… no keeping on the circles! I wish I had that—so flexible but easily identifiable as the place to cook!

The Thermador freedom cooktop is like that. Everyone has been waiting for the 7000 series miele Cooktop that was introduced everywhere except the US back in 2019…. YouTube video shows the pot being slid across the glass and its temperature setting come along with it. Definitely going to have some long scratches on that cooktop!

@PaulF You're right about IBS. I forgot about that acronym. We are actually in LV sitting in our RV so we can attend KBIS (aka IBS) next week. Yes, we will have to do some comparing. We need to look for a cooking exhaust vent too. We're leaning towards a ceiling exhaust. We were going with a Wolfe but there are so many out there now.

@Missy Bee Gaggenau allows you free position of cookware.

Ok, I'm at KBIS. Gaggenau is not here so no preview of their hidden induction. TPB and Invisicook did not make it either. CSP wasn't here.

Whirlpool did not introduce a new combo washer/dryer. They are so embarrassed by the terrible one introduced last year that its not even at the show. Dacor previewed one that is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. No photograph allowed and for good reason... absolutely butt ugly and at least 50 inches tall.

The good news is LG came out with one that is a huge 5cuft and washes and dries a load in under 2 hours. Its 39" tall which is 9" shorter than the GE. Its shown here with the washer pedestal (does not dry) or you can get a storage drawer or a 5 inch solid riser.... or use nothing underneath it. Built-in cabinets need to accommodate the top lint filter.... with a hinged shelf?

Watch this video before you decide between the 2 units.

So, Invisacook is being showcased in Four booths at KBIS: Coverlam, Techlam, Cesarstone with cekebrity chef Chef Kevin and at the German Pavilion. Come vidit!

You’re not listed in any of the indexes, so I missed it. Would’ve been nice to have a heads up before hand.

I saw Invisicook at 2 booths and visited a lot of porcelain vendors that now can handle the undercounter induction. I will post more probably tomorrow when I have time go go thru my notes. Also saw the Whirlpool Combo. A little disappointed that they were not really familar with their own product. Did visit both LG and GE. Again lots of notes. Will be interested in seeing how PaulF likes his LG. Off the top of my head I know LG has a condenser where GE does not. GE did claim they can handle bigger loads and had the most great reviews. I thought it was a lot of "puffing" since LG just recently came out with theirs Combo so there would be less reviews. Also did not see Gag. We were looking for Wofle too for their ceiling exhaust vent for the induction and didn't see them either.

@tapattee Whirlpool told me their poorly reviewed combo (released last year) was not on display! I walked the booth and did not see it either... maybe because they told me it was not there. Please post a picture of it.

You got lucky spotting any hidden induction. I searched for it with the help of guest services. I even went back today looking. I love the concept and want it so badly but if the big boys are steering clear then its not ready for the masses...that's the way I look at it.

LG was on it with the challenge to the GE combo... making it slightly larger, 9 inches shorter and the Frig that changes colors was a slightly better Samsung.

The GE combo definitely has a condenser with a 5 year warranty. "Five years From the date of the original purchase. The sealed heat pump drying system (compressor, condenser, evaporator and all connecting tubing) which fails due to a defect in materials or workmanship. During this additional four-year limited warranty, you will be responsible for any labor and related service costs."

I would watch this comparison video of the 2 machines before you decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCTpDVgQXGI {update Mar 1st} The bad reviews are starting to come in on the LG. The condenser is 1/3 the size of the GE and not drying effectively. I'm refusing delivery on it tomorrow. So disappointed!

I guess a dark counter with a Miele induction isn't so bad. Thats what I'll probably go with.

But some other interesting ones.

I currently have a standard freestanding 30" gas range (oven below, 4 gas burners on top). I don't have anywhere to put a wall oven or anything. Is it possible to have an invisible induction system with oven below?

I said a while back I would post the porcelain manufacturers I found at KBIS. I have a blog where I listed the manufacturers. We are currently renovating a home in TX and discovered Floor and Decor now sells 10' porcelain slabs. They have pretty good prices and some beautiful "statement" pieces. I also included our video of the Invisicook under a Geoluxe slab. Invisicook is an option we're considering for the modular home we're building in CA. I'm still researching the washer/dryer combos, but will put more time into it when we have the TX reno done and we are back in our home state. Blog: The Modularist - Sharing the Knowledge we've Gained Building a Modular Home

Ugh, I went to see invisicook again at a place in Los Angeles. It was the most professional install I'd seen yet.... no loose wire balled up in a drawer below the cooktop. The salesperson opened a tiny little bottle of water... maybe 8 oz and poured about half into a small pan to start the boil. I insisted she put in the whole bottled at least. So, we waited for about 5 minutes for that half inch water to come to a boil. She explained that the cooktop could be controlled by an iPhone or iPad now but didn't know if Siri could turn it on with voice.

She also said that the only problems other than the slow boil she's seen is a situation where a specialty pan to cook a single egg was too small for the burner to register it on the counter and didn't work. The other is a woman that slow simmered soups and stews and the hours long cook times overheated the Invisicook so the cooktop kept shutting down as a safety measure.

Here is an emailed response to a complaint about the Invisicook's slow boiling.

"So our New Units coming out at the end of June, will be improved Speed for Boiling water, and will work with 2cm Dekton now too, and pull 2,000 watts of power when on Power Boost to boil water. Again it will be slower then the typical glass induction, but this is to do prevent Thermo Shock."

Also, the cooktop CAN be controlled with an app for iPhone or iPad but cannot be controlled by voice... like with Siri or Alexa.

@Paul F. Looking at the specs the wattage for Invisicook's current 240v products is 1,600 watts. Increasing the wattage to 2,000 would be a 25% increase in power which equates to 20% faster with constant factors. Their mention of Thermo Shock was intriquing. It sounds like this is a precaution to help prevent the countertop from getting damaged by heating the surface too quickly. I did see the TBK has 1,400 watts for their small inductor and 3,000 for their medium and large. Mostly likely they account for the thermo shock when producing the countertops thus allowing for the higher wattage. I meant to ask earlier if you knew if the unit you saw in Los Angeles was hooked up to 110 or 220.

Did you ever decide on your combo washer/dryer? We are seriously considering for our modular home we are building. I have yet to start my research.

@tapattee Good question! I have an email into the showroom to get that answer on the voltage instead of assuming it was 240v... which I believe it was. I'll let you know as soon as they respond.

I have 2 GE Ultrafast's for my rentals and they are great. I was hoping the heat pump LG was going to blow it away so I could get the best for me. Unfortunately, LG tried to make it a shorter machine with slightly more capacity than the already huge 4.5cu GE by reducing the size of the condenser. The reduction to a 600w condenser from the GE 850w was not a good idea. If it can't wash and dry a full load in under 2 hours then I'm not interested. So, although the LG is beautiful and shorter but with more capacity all the reviews are saying it is slow to dry a heavy load.

I just found out the Samsung unit was introduced a couple months ago. I thought it was a prototype when I saw it at KBIS because it was so ugly in person. They wouldn't allow photos either. Reviews are mentioning sometimes an almost 7 hour dry time on heavy loads... no thanks! Here's a youtube comparison of the 3 machines... GE - LG - Samsung

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-LcHNrmvm8

Ok, so they replied quickly. The unit they had on display was a ONE burner install and the ONE burner model only comes in 110v. The 110v large single burner is 1400W. When you jump to the two burner 110v it is the same wattage... 1400w. However on the 220v double burner versions the larger burner is 1600w.. The new upgrade will give the ability to boost the bigger burner to 2000w but remember, 'boost' is only used to attain the boil, but not to maintain the boil. It will boil over if you keep it on boost. It is nice to know it is there.

SO...If you are interested then wait until June to get the new Invisicook version and get the 220w unless you don't mind the slow boil of the 110v 2 burner version. The 3 burner and up versions only come in 220v.

TPB tech update- after many delays caused by the local fabricator and installer we have our cooktop! after a week of cooking we can say it is great and heats very quickly. I brought 3c of water to a hard boil in 3m 45s using 8/10 heat setting. Works great with my favorite vintage cast iron, nonstick and stainless. cleanup is such a breeze and having extra prep space is extremely helpful.

TPB doesnt like to ship cooktops with mitred edges so we had a local business handle that aspect. the only place that the underlayer shows is in the sink cutout (we chose for this to be black). i actually like the dark band.

we found out that the induction units need 2” of space under them and had our drawers cut slightly shallower than normal- that worked a treat. the setup’s electrical requirements are below. we have 2 small and 1 large burner.

I hope this helps! Ill post more when we have had more time to use it.

Power requirements for 2 large hobs and 1 small hob:

- 2 dedicated circuits

- 240v each

- 20amp capacity

- 2 Hots + Ground

@Corby Bee That's great! So you had the whole counter shipped and a local shop mitered it for you, right? Can you please, please fill up a big pot like you're going to make pasta for a family... lets say 3 or 4 inches of water in a pot you'd use for of a large amount of pasta and time it on 10/10 for us... the quickest boil you can get? I've yet to see real world cooking boiling testing on hidden induction.

@corby bee Thank you for posting this! Were you able to get this in USA? Did you have to buy their counter?

We bought it via Sensorium in New York. they coordinated with Spain and the local fabricator/installer for us. we did have to get one of their countertops. The edges were all done in CA- the fabricator picked it up from LAX and did the cutting.

I boiled 160oz of water, started on Power Boil and then it went to max power. 11 minutes to boil roughly 1.25gal.

pics of the induction and my drawer undeneath, plus an edge close up. we were reassured that in the event that we need to replace a burner down the line it is easy to disconnect and replace. in almost a decade I think Sensorium says this happened once. the ease of repair reassured us and let us take the plunge. thus far Im so glad we did!

Corby Bee: Would you mind clarifying the "circuits" description? Normally, one 240-Vac circuit comprises two hot leads, a neutral, and a ground. Each hot lead is 120 Vac to neutral; hot-to-hot is 240 Vac. Are there two of these, or one of these?

@kaseki I don't know enough about electrical work. Each induction unit is on its own circuit, that's the extent of my understanding. I pasted the details in from a communication with the contractor.

Yes, I need to contact my electrician. I have one 240v for an induction cooktop. I would assume he could do a 40 amp breaker and I could run two of these modules.

At worst, assuming 20A per module, one could install a minimal breaker box in the cooktop cabinet feeding the 40A circuit to two 20A breakers and thence the two modules.

@Corby Bee Thanks so much for the boiling timing! So rare anyone will test like that for the group. I just placed a pot with 108oz of water on a 15,000BTU gas burner on high and it didn't reach a point of boiling where I'd put the pasta in it for 13 minutes.

I'm down to my last week of being able to shift the design to an under counter system like this. The big question is how much did you pay, all in... to the point of picking the item up at LAX... so, not including fabrication? I'm about 5 miles from LAX so I couldn't ask a better person.

@Paul F. Have you checked out the new SKS Flex induction cooktop. Only read about it, but if not doing undercounter something to throw into mix.

@tapattee I haven't and I know I should go with regular induction but you have to admit that Corby Bee's kitchen looks fantastic.

We're considering Invisacook for our new home build here in Santa Rosa California. It would be installed in solid black Dekton.

Have others found it difficult to position pans on a solid color surface lacking all pattern. What are the implications of not exactly positioning a pan?

What are the implications of not exactly positioning a pan?

The field lines over an induction cooktop coil, imagining that there is no pan sensor, would fill a space that looks like the top half of a horizontal donut, or bagel. When a pan is centered on this field the field lines are "pulled" into the inductive base material and cause heating. The field volume would then look like a squished donut. The center of the donut -- the donut hole -- does not directly transfer heat because there are no field lines there.

As the pan is moved off center, the donut hole of course moves to an offset position relative to the pan center, and, depending on pan size vs. coil size (outside of donut), some field lines have to extend further through the air. At some point, roughly where the pan base edge is next to the donut hole, field lines will be fully in the air from inside to outside the coil winding, and no heat will be transferred in that area. Somewhere in such a progressive pan displacement, the induction circuit's sensing of adequate inductive material will shut the power transfer down until the pan is returned to a sufficiently adequate field-coupled position.

Bottom line: Smaller-than-coil pans can be moved a fair amount before heat transfer is significantly degraded, so long as the pan sensor is happy. Also, larger-than-coil pans can be moved a fair amount before heat transfer is significantly degraded. In all cases, the effect on cooking will depend on how well the pan base layers conduct heat across the pan base.

Note that the under glass sensor located in the "donut hole" is likely to be an overtemperature sensor; the induction sufficiency sensor is best performed by the electronics observing the voltage waveform vs. current waveform in the coil. This can be performed by intermittent pulsing or more subtle means.

I was looking to put 4 singles in an island for group Chinese hot pot nights or to keep food warm during dinner, but 1400W just seems inadequate under 12-20mm of Dekton. BUT I just broadened my search, and the 4-burner "galley" version, which has 5200W total (220V 23.6A), 2000W x 2 and 1600W x 2 (in boost, I'm guessing). Power seems adequate, but the spacing makes it so I can only fit 8" pans if I use all 4 burners.

I do not recommend TPB TECH. There are many reviews on internet and it is pitty I did not read them before buying. We ordered their worktop and special original cookware, but after using a month, the worktop itself broke, just noticed a crack. We contacted company, and they did not provide any warranty, while they primised it before buying. And it happend to all clients. First they sell, later, they run away and tells that ,maybe you used inappropriate. TPB TECH product is very poor quality. Be careful

This whole idea seemed very gimmicky to me from the start….

@Stephen D I disagree. Gas cooktops are ugly and nasty to clean, yes. BUT Induction cooktops are perfect, easy to clean and nice to look at. I could not be happier with our Gaggenau 400 Series 36" cooktop, it is PHENOMENAL. Everyone said watchout there is a learning curve but not really, very intuitive to use, my teenagers LOVE cooking now. And it is a breeze to clean. I am thrilled with my choices of Gaggenau and Taj Mahal countertops, looks amazing and easy to mantain.

@Stephen D and @Corby Bee thank you for the information shared last year regarding the hidden inductions. Are you able to provide feedback on TPB Tech and Cooking Surface Prime please. so you use other hobs aswell as these? Customer services follow up needed? Would you recommend? Any drawbacks or considerations? I’m looking to use one of these companies and hence the questions. Many thanks, Tracy

@Tracy Lou Invisacook is what we have and we LOVE it. The customer service is fantastic. Good luck.

Hi Tracy, We still have the cooking surface prime. Its been used nearly every day for the last 18 months. I still love it and would buy an invisible hob again if I had a choice. Negatives of my unit are that I don’t particularly like the way the controller looks and functions and fan noise is louder than most other induction hobs I have used. There are some work arounds for the above. The power of ours is great but the caveat is you need the correct pans to access the power. There is a lot more choice since we purchased ours. If i was buying now I would strongly consider the ‘Novy undercover’ given they are the first mainstream brand to launch one. I am aware gaggenau also make one but that is prohibitively expensive for most people. I did a video review of mine a few months back which may help some people.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gEglb4bmiHs&t=6s

My My opinion after 12 months use. - YouTube

@Stepehn D thank you this is really helpful and I’ll watch your YouTube video.