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pmosier61

Ice Water Stone Fire (and more) — Take 3

6 years ago

Still refining plans for our new construction kitchen (plus dining and living rooms) and looking for some critical eyes on new ideas. First photo is architect’s original version. Second photo is my take on a revision.

We want a range top and double wall ovens instead of a range. To achieve this, I removed the island and added walls on the north side of the kitchen.

Note that these walls could be moved out two more feet, but then there would be 8 feet between the north and south walls and that seems like a bit much.

I’m also proposing that these new walls be 8 feet high, so they won’t go all the way to the ceiling. Kitchen ceiling will be 9 feet and DR ceiling will be vaulted from west to fifteen feet on east wall.

I added:

  • ledge to the window wall (east) for growing herbs.
  • pony wall to divide DR and LR visually. Planning to add storage underneath for dining linens and bar. Maybe a beverage fridge?
  • architectural screen to LR west wall to help the room feel a bit more enclosed without closing it off

Ran out of room on graph paper. At far north end is gas fireplace with TV above.

I’m trying to keep a semi-open feel while avoiding the visual clutter of looking out over an open sea of seating (island stools, dining chairs, sofa and chairs).

Any suggestions for improving this plan? Do you see any hard no’s?

Comments (20)

  • 6 years ago

    Here are the photos

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hire a Kitchen Designer. And check the credentials of your architect.

  • 6 years ago

    Sorry it keeps getting worse. No appliance should be more than 9' from another appliance and that includes fridge to sink.

    And if you're standing at the sink with the dishwasher open, how will you load it. There's a reason dishwashers are easy to load from the side.

    Another question. Are you far from shopping that you need a pantry the size of a room? And so far from the kitchen to make it harder putting away groceries?

    Why do you need a walk in closet off the hallway?

  • 6 years ago

    I agree that this is not an improvement.

    You're going to have a 1 foot gap from the top of the wall to the ceiling? Why?

    You also removed a huge swath of usable counter space (your island) and made everything a longer walk.

  • 6 years ago

    Sorry. Really not trying to make this worse. Credentials of the architect check out. And we are so far down this path that I’m really trying hard just to make the best of it at this point. Otherwise, we’re looking at starting over with someone else.

    You’ve sensed my reluctance to hire a KD. Did that for our extensive remodel a couple years ago. She mis-measured two different walls by three inches each. For one wall, our contractor was able to fix it by moving a window three inches to match the KDs specs. It was either that or buy new upper and base cabinets 3 inches narrower and wait ten weeks for them to be delivered. On the other wall, filler was removed to make the cabinets fit. The lighting and outlets had already been installed and cabinets delivered when the error was discovered. Now everything looks crammed in. Cabinets doors rub against adjacent pantry cabs due to no filler. So yes, I hesitate to go down that path again.

    The pantry is large to accommodate a second fridge. Ours is currently in the garage and that’s fine, but at the new house the garage is detached so that isn’t as convenient. We regularly (pre-COVID) host large family gatherings and our family is growing as our 6 kids get married.

    There are two walk in closets flanking the hallway. Mostly to form the entry way I’m assuming (since we didn’t request them). The north one is now designated for mechanicals. The south one (closest to the kitchen) not sure what it will be used for.

    Can fix the dishwasher dilemma by moving the new wall out two feet. Looking at it again. I think this is better because it gives those two feet to the kitchen instead of the dining room. But this doesn’t fix the distance from fridge to sink.

  • 6 years ago

    This revision adds back the countertop top space lost by removing the island.

  • 6 years ago

    Add a prep sink to the island in the original and it is way better than what you show now.

  • 6 years ago

    Okay, here’s another take — kitchen only. This gets the appliances within roughly 9’ of each other. Ice, Water, Stone, Fire is maintained. There’s a large prep area under the window, which is great because that’s where I spend most of my kitchen time. Also, there are no uppers over the prep area, which is great. The range and sink are tucked away and no longer visible from the dining/living area.

  • 6 years ago

    There are two things I really don’t like about the island. One is that there’s no place for wall ovens. Two is the visual “clutter” created by counter stools, dining room chairs, and living room seating all in one big row.

  • 6 years ago

    That is one long haul of chopped veggies to the range. Do you want an enclosed kitchen or an open kitchen?

    If open then one option would be to add a short wall from the post towards the RF wall in the original and add the ovens there with a small counter next to it and have a shorter island. You'd loose a stool there, but it would be more for talking to the cook than anything. Still open, less seating lined up back to back.

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    If you do put in an island, you don't need to have counter stools for it. It can be a prep sink area, and you gain additional storage (if you need) underneath.

    As one who has put her prime prep area in front of the window (it is almost always daylight when I prep, whereas it is often after dark when I clean up - plus due to the window, there are no upper cabinets to bump into - and as a tall woman I NEED uppers almost as much as I need daylight...), I wholeheartedly approve of that notion, if you can make the rest of the room work. I also like the idea of semi-open rather than closed or fully open - I do like defined spaces to some extent. I am glad the DW is now next to the sink in this new rendition.

    But the overall gestalt of the room still doesn't work together for efficiency of space and efficiency of movement.


  • 6 years ago

    Good points about the prep area in front of the window. Thanks so much for sharing your experience.

    This window looks out into the back yard and a forested ravine. The view is the best part about this lot. So I’m actually starting to smile as I think about spending my prep time there.
    Anyone have suggestions for improving the overall efficiency of space and movement while still achieving my other goals (range top and double wall ovens, semi-open, defined spaces)?

  • 6 years ago

    Hire a kitchen designer.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    I like "Hire a kitchen designer" advice. Don't take advice on your kitchen from anyone that does not know what your favorite dish to cook is.

  • 6 years ago

    Are. you sure about your house layout? I still don't understand why you can't add to one side of the outside like I showed in your other thread. Can you show an elevation that explains how it won't work

  • 6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    cpartist - she did add it in her last post. It does seem to cause some roof issues so several things need to be re-worked to make that work. I agree though that it would make the inside work better.


    I would do something like this if you don't want any seating on the island. If you add a prep sink you can have multiple cooks in the kitchen too helping out. Lots of zones that don't interfere with each other either and the island can also work as a buffet space.

  • PRO
    6 years ago

    I rather like the large pantry. Especially since you have a large family and are planning ahead on being prepared for it to get bigger.

    How many people do you usually have cooking at the same time in your kitchen?

  • 6 years ago

    Number of people in the kitchen varies. Sometimes it’s just me. Many times DH joins me and does prep while I cook. Occasionally me, my mom, DDs, DIL will be cooking together. Not sure what would happen if we had more space, right now we have room for only two at a time (galley kitchen) so we dance around each other and take turns.

  • 6 years ago

    Lyfia got me thinking about the walls a little differently. In this version, there’s a short wall for wall ovens added to the end of the original island. Sink and dishwasher have been moved to the island. All appliances are within 9’ of each other. Ice, water, stone, fire is maintained. There’s a large prep space under the window which can do double duty as a buffet for our big family dinners (when we can do those again). DH has decided that he wants to keep the island seating so he can sit while prepping or just chatting with me while I cook.

  • 6 years ago

    please post link to original thread so i can see elevation. I’m sorry i missed it