I'm in California, so have no first-hand knowledge. However, this rose is half Noisette, which would indicate that it would be pretty "iffy".

HelpMeFind says:

USDA zone 5b through 10b. Heat tolerant. Requires spring freeze protection (see glossary - Spring freeze protection) . Can be grown in the ground or in a container (container requires winter protection). Prune lightly or not at all.

I think you would need pretty heroic winter protection.

The last time my part of USDA 8 got down to single digits a lot of garden roses froze back, sometimes down to the root crowns - like jerijen I don't live there but I'd expect that a Pemberton musk like 'Buff Beauty' would have recurring problems with the serious winter cold of USDA 5.

I think a lot of the bottom end hardiness zones given for garden roses by some sources are just plant fanciful, perhaps sometimes based on specimens that have been cut back and covered - even laid down and buried - for the winter. Which of course does not really amount to the plant being hardy in that location at all.

For instance I have seen USDA 5 indicated for 'Kiftsgate'. The year that 10 degrees F. and below was seen in my area there was across the board freezing down to the roots of large species musks and named horticultural derivatives like 'La Mortola' and 'Polyantha Grandiflora'. With R. multiflora (not really one of the large growing ones) standing out for not being so affected. And with sprouting of new tops by the heavily damaged kinds being quite feeble at first, as though they just barely survived. So USDA 5 for 'Kiftsgate' seems highly doubtful.

I do know someone who could manage it. But her winter-protection is heroic, to say the least.

But a friend in the Sparks, NV area can't grow 'Mel's Heritage' which is similarly half-Noisette. OTOH, she CAN grow things like Gallicas which I cannot, here in La-La-Land.

Cynthia -- Yours is the voice of experience on this one!

This is something I've pondered for years.
Logic would dictate something like Buff Beauty would be quite tender in Z5.

On that note though- I have a good handful of modern roses that are hybrid teas, and most of those have zero cane hardiness here most winters. We haven't had winter-long and deep snow cover in YEARS.
They usually have to start over every spring from the crown/bud union (placed several inches below grade). Most tend to decline from this and are never as impressive as when grown WHERE they should be.

My understanding is that things with a high dose of china or tea/gigantea blood tend to be tender, don't-prune-me-like-that Southern belles suitable for California, PNW (mild if not often much heat), and the Gulf States.

On that note, are most HT's really all that hardier than typical teas and Chinas? Or is it more on how the T/Ch develop with long maintained canes and the resources stored within being destroyed with death of exposed canes versus more storage in the crown/roots like North American (wild) and European roses then not having enough oomph to restart constantly?

I tried Mutabilis spring 2014 and lasted until end of season 2019. It kicked the bucket over this past winter, and that's much longer than the one growing season I expected.

Here's the interesting part: that year, along with Mutabilis, I picked up a Mrs. Dudley Cross (reminds me in bloom like an old school Peace) and Duchesse de Brabant. MDC and DdB are still inexplicably kicking. Not great, but surviving and I get several small sets of blooms throughout the season.

These two are on the north-east side of the house but against an east facing wall.
Mutabilis was on the south facing wall on the south-east side of the house (like corners because of the "breezeway" room connecting the garage and house.

My only thought is that the wood stove in the front room of the house on the North side is hot enough consistently enough throughout winter they the extra heat escaping the structure is just enough to keep the ground warmer where they are despite a technically colder outdoor spot.

Darn Houzz- I wasn't done and somehow my comment posted...

... Based on my experiences, I do wonder if perhaps Buff Beauty might make a small bush to enjoy. How much multiflora is left in this hybrid "musk" (ha!) versus the Tea?
I'm saying tea because those colours didn't come into Noisettes until breeding with tea roses. The originals are pink, white, blush, non?

Lady Hillingdon is one tea I'd really like to consider trying. So many roses I'd like to see/have myself at least once just to have had its experience. I've heard it's considerably hardier than many of its clan and it does have those wonderful shades of apricot and plum new growth.

*BTW- the Autumn Damask I have hasn't been cane hardy here either, and I've only seen a few blooms once over three years ago.

DdB on the left, MDC on the right. So tiny and pathetic, but still trying!

Oh the adventures!
Happy gardening.

Steven

@MiGreenThumb (Z5b S.Michigan/Sunset 41) Elevation: 1091 feet, you might want to look at Plaisanterie for a hardier Mutabilis look-alike, at least from what I've read. It is growing in Z5 Ohio. FreedomGardens currently has both it and Lady Hillingdon. The latter just came to my attention with another recent post and now I'm always thinking about it. I'd try BB here myself, but worry about BS.

Oh, thank you so much Vapor, but I don't necessarily wish to acquire something that looks like Mutabilis, but rather having had the opportunity to have the actual one and see it intimately, privately myself.

Aside from killing of living things through zone pushing, I do like experimenting. Verifying hardiness and the degrees of, the actual diseases experienced (and how much black spot in particular).

Lady Hillingdon is one of those roses I've daydreamed about since my obsession/love for roses really blossomed (haha) in middle school.
I finally acquired Madame Isaac Pereire spring of 2018 from RVR and I received my first blooms this year and oh my goodness! What colour, fragrance, shape, and size, even on her baby self. She grew several two foot canes this year and survived last winter well. Not as much black spot as I anticipated, but we were very hot and dry most of the season.

I think I need to take the dive and try all of the roses I've long been interested in.
Oh dear. So many...

Steven

You can grow roses in a large tub and move them into the unheated garage -- or cellar or something -- for winter. I store my doubtfully hardy plants under my front stoop here in NYC, and so far so good.

I am in Hamilton, ON, which is in zone 5 in USDA terms. I saw Buff Beauty in a friend’s garden, and immediately fell in love. In the fall of 1994 I got a grafted plant from Hortico. I have a note saying it stayed pretty small away from the house, but it did bloom. In 1997 we did a big renovation, and I had to dig up a number of roses, including BB, in the middle of the summer. Afterwards I could not find it back, and thought I had literally lost it. The next year the Sensass Delbard I had replanted up against the house, mysteriously produced a mixture of red and buff yellow flowers :-). The roots must have gotten intertwined somehow. It did better in that more protected position. I am sure I have a picture of the combination, but where??? It lived there till 2003, when we had a very severe winter. My notes say it came back weakly, and I guess it must have died then. I don’t remember. Sensass Delbard and a few other roses also suffered that winter. I am pretty sure I only protected it lightly, if at all, during those nine years. I have improved alkaline clay soil.

Anyway, there were my friend’s and mine, both surviving for a good number of years, so there is some hope if you can protect it, and be content with a smaller plant. The flowers are fantastic, and it was super healthy in my no spray garden.

As can be seen at the above link 'Plaisanterie' is small flowered, shows a lot of the influence of the 'Trier' involvement in its parentage. So it's not really a "lookalike", despite the similarly colored, single flowers inherited from 'Mutabilis'.

I regret that I didn't plant Buff Beauty when I first moved here. I think I thought my garden would be too shady. Instead I have Cornelia, now old and gnarled(but treasured by me), and I planted Buff Beauty at our friends' country house, which is located on a sandy eminence. It flourished for quite a few years (more than ten) and was incredibly beautiful, but it finally died from lack of supplementary watering and voles. Roses really are water hogs -- most of them anyway, and need a bit of TLC. Anyway I used to admire it there. Maybe if it had had a better name it would have been better known and more popular. My husband took this picture at the Botanic Garden two years ago. The flowers are quite large for a hybrid musk, but would be considered small for a hybrid tea, or even an Austin. But size doesn't matter -- from the perspective of eternity.

That is so beautiful! Is it healthy in terms of black spot where you live? Did I ask this already? LOL! I go back and forth on this Rose all the time. I guess I should have put look alike in quotes. I meant that Plaisanterie had the color shifting flowers, not that it was alike in all aspects. Anyway, it's a lovely rose in its own right.

The flowers are deliciously fragrant.

It was healthier than the other roses at the Brooklyn [NY] Botanic Garden at the time, which I think was either in late June or early July. The hybrid musks tend to be healthy, as far as I know. The problem with the climate here is that of late spring frosts after the plants have come out of dormancy. We are supposedly zone 7, but there can be unexpected cold snaps.

Thank you all. As a newbie rose enthusiast, I appreciate your wealth of knowledge and experience. The lineage, the breeder, grafts,... there is so much to know!

I will hold off Buff Beauty for now. I would have planted in a container but I killed two roses last winter in pots (in garage!). May be once I have a little more experience.

Hybrid Musk is a loose enough category that generalizations about characteristics tend to be applicable only to a certain point.

Straw - is the Trier parentage/lineage true of all hybrid musks? I’m thinking of my Buff Beauty and if the multiflora same likes/dislikes apply to it as well (like your Felicia)?

aerbk7b: Buff beauty parent is William Allen Richardson (a Noisette thus tender for my cold zone 5), W.A.R. has tiny & round leaves. Trier has single-white flower with small & slender leaves. Both Buff Beauty and Felicia have small leaves that HATE my dense & slow-draining clay. Both died quickly in my heavy clay.

In contrast, large leaves (Pat Austin, Betty White, PcDm, Sweet Mademoiselle, Big Purple) like my dense & wet clay.

Straw thanks!

Aerbk7b, Strawchicago z5 was generous in sharing her experience. You didn't ask me but I did notice that your original question was whether all hybrid musks were descended from Trier, either directly or several generations back. Here's the short answer: No.

For a better, more informative answer, buy a premium membership on HMFRoses. Search the linage of a rose, its descendants and ancestors for a better understanding. It's the best money I've spent for furthering my knowledge of what roses will grow here. BTW you are wise in thinking that the ancestry of a hybrid musk will make a difference in its performance.

Hi Kes — thanks so much. I had looked on HMF before I asked the question. And would love to buy a premium membership but am laid off in the pandemic so have had to hold off for now. Hopefully soon can get one!

Btw — Apologies — I mis-posted my question to Straw Chicago in this thread — I had meant to post it in a different one where she had been discussing this issue with Felicia/Trier. I guess I had this one open as well. But that’s why I was asking the question on Houzz….

No problem, aerbk7b. HMF. doesn't have all the answers but it is helpful and can be a time saver. Some of the Pemberton hybrid musks have unknown pedigrees and several go back to a tea noisette. Here is a short general description of hybrid musks as a class: http://thefriendsofvintageroses.org/hybrid-musks/

Hope this is helpful.

Kes — actually that’s one of the first sources I checked besides HMF. Love Friends of Vintage Roses. I still have their catalogue from years ago saved for reference!