I am thinking that it is probably healthy - may be some delayed damage after shipping. Seems that you are doing all it needs - it is in fresh soil and you are trying to find it an appropriate place light wise. (If I took a trip across the country tumbled all the way - I probably would be still sore too.)

Regarding the shape of the flowers - the curlier the leaves, the curlier the blossoms. If you look at the photos of this variety on google - you will find quite a range - from almost flat to very curly, yours have a semi open bell shape. Kind of interesting.

Some AVs are more stable, some less. The more exotic the blossoms are - the more chances that one leaf put down will give you several slightly different starters.

You keep it for a while and see if it will grow out of the spotted leaves and you will fall in love with special blossoms. If not - rehome it eventually. We need to try different AVs. I went through my trial period with Space Violets when they were released first - and decided not to keep them - so on the next club sale - they found a new home. They are not hard to grow, but they are XLarge and there are other varieties I like better.

i don't mean contradict irina, she's very knowledgeable, but to me this violet doesn't seem healthy...i would be concerned too...i would disbud again and check the roots and leaves tops and bottoms thoroughly...isolate and watch carefully...the leaves don't look normal with the yellow on them and the leaves look quite pale...have you repotted it?...are you fertilizing it?... i would keep an eye on it and if it doesn't do well, i would pitch it and let the seller know....i would look it up on the avsa master list and see what it is supposed to look like, especially the leaves... i would also not buy anything else from the seller...i had one of these space violets and it was just terrific, it was a joy...let us know what you find and how it does...sharon

Hi, Joan, I am inclined to agree with Irina. You might have received a "dud." You could try rooting a leaf and restarting. If you got it from Selective Gardener, you could take a photo and ask them. If you got it from somewhere else, if it is healthy and thriving, as this seems to be, they probably won't replace it.

Some Optimara's are "Ugly Ducklings." What you dislike might find a happy re-home with a lonely neighbor, perhaps!?

I don't know about the brown spots. But I do not think it is thrips.

Joanne

Thanks, Irina and Sharon.

That' a very interesting observation about curly leaves going together with curly flowers, Irina. :) Of course! Yet it hadn't occurred to me.

Yeah, I can't find anything specifically wrong with it. No evidence of bugs, as far as I can see, and I think the systemic would've taken care of anything in the soil or on the leaves. It's getting weak fertilizer (1/4 strength), on a wick system; gets flushed monthly with lake water, from the top, then put back on the wick. Not sure what else I can do! I could try disbudding once again (since the flowers aren't pleasing anyway I wouldn't feel any great loss from that), and bumping up the fertilizer to see if I can get a better looking set of leaves.

It's true that there seems to be a LOT of variation of this violet, when it comes to the pictures out there. I checked those out before ordering, and was hoping for one of the more "open" (and less green-edged) examples; but I knew I was tossing the dice a bit.

I'll keep trying at least until next summer, but if it doesn't break out of this funk, I'll chalk it up to experience. I'm fine with that. Live and learn, as with any other part of gardening.

The seller was Selective Gardener, so - not exactly a casual outfit.

I'll say this about another Space violet though: EverGlory is performing beautifully. Or was, until I saw a thrip. I have dealt with that I think (disbudded etc 3 weeks ago, new buds are forming already), and am looking forward to the next time it offers to bloom. It'll stay in quarantine until it goes through blooming and shows no sign of thrips; probably a couple of months more, at least. It has much less curly leaves, and the flowers are only mildly ruffled and seem to open well.

Hah, Irina! Rap music!! Well, it's mostly Mozart around here (not really, but that general genre; personally, there's only so much Mozart I can listen to in a day, being more of a Debussy/Prokofiev kind of person).

I've been in touch with Selective Gardener via web form. Wasn't able to attach photos, but Monique got back to me quickly, and I sent a photo today.

I think it likely that this is just the way it is. I have enough space to take care of it and let it outgrow whatever is crippling it, if it can. That's the plan. I don't have enough space to propagate that many leaves and bring plantlets to bloom, and then pick one. If it doesn't outgrow this disappointing habit, well, buh-bye baby. I'll try something else. There are so many more options out there, as you all know. :D

Joan

Joan,

Lake water???

Do tell!

Monique is wonderful!

Joanne

Well, Joanne, I am fortunate to live on the shores of a Minnesota lake. And even though that lake is frozen for about 5 months a year, I have lots of plastic gallon jugs, which I make sure are all filled up before ice-over. So that's what I use for my more sensitive plants, the orchids and violets. I do use softened water for my amaryllises (quite a collection!) but then I repot them with fresh soil at least once a year, and so far, so good, though if I could collect enough water to supply them as well I'm sure it would be better for them. I'm not yet willing to invest in installing RO in the house, but it may come to that, some day. Of course, where I live, there's always the option of melting snow. But the volume required would be labor intensive and maybe just a little OCD?

And yes, Monique IS wonderful! She made such wonderful guesses on what could be problems (none of which applied, but all the same, thanks for trying because it took mental and physical effort, and TIME, to respond).

Joan

Regarding the lake water..... in my understanding fresh water aquariums need to have a good percent of the water replaced every 2 weeks... and everybody who waters with the used water full of the goodness of genuine fish poop... has thriving plants.

I don't think I'm going to go so far as to have an aquarium to maintain, for the sake of the fish poop in the water, hah! But maybe there's at least some, in the lake water? For sure there's plenty of bird poop.... ;p

I am sure there is a lot of goodness in a lake water, probably some undesirable contaminants as well. You can always use some fish emulsion in winter. Actually I heard a recommendation from a very experienced show grower. He leaches his AVs between repottings with a weak solution of the fish emulsion and distilled water. Literally several drops of FE to a gallon. From his experience a cup or so of this water slowly dispensed to the pot in sink - so the runoff goes down.. revitalizes the soil, dissolves fertilizer salts and gives a boost to a plant between repottings. So if you do not plan to repot till spring - some tired pots will benefit from this leaching.

I have no scientific proof of this method - but the guy who won enough of the shows swears by it. It is a weak solution of mostly nitrogen and microelements, soft water for salt dissolving, Why not?

Won't work with double ceramic pots, evil contraptions they are...

That's an excellent tip, Irina. I don't have so many violets that I can't repot on schedule, and have always liked fish emulsion but never used it; it just doesn't seem to show up on garden center shelves. My mother swore by it. I was made to mix up gallons and gallons of it and haul it out to Mom's HUGE collection of tuberous begonias, several times a summer, hah. I remember the smell. :)

Some lakes are sketchy. Mine is closed-basin, spring-fed, and famed statewide for clarity. Up until recently at least it was drinking-water safe. More algae just lately however. I'm not worried about using it.

If I had seen your photos and didn't know your background info, I would say the flowers are gorgeous! Re the patches on the leaves, I'd rather see them in person, but from here the plant looks a bit etiolated and like it could use some fertilizer. Were the patches on the leaves when it arrived? Could the patches be sunburn? if so, I'd expect the leaves to get/be thinner in those spots, and they'd eventually turn brown.

Re the flowers not fully opening, I have a Lyndon Lyons 'Sheer Romance' that often does that... it's considered a feature. :)

Joan, I agree with Party_Music!!

When I was new, I grew absolutely everything. I wanted to trace the historical horticultural development of AVs by growing many vintage.

If I wanted a perfectly round Rhapsodie, well, that was too easy. No challenge there.

Each example of new was a mystery and wonder. Each was beautiful, whether gangly and a sucker mess, or a weird shade of green or dusty looking colors or misshapen blooms. To my scientific eye, I was not looking for beauty as much as vigor.

Then I came here and learned to cultivate my eye. We all like different things.

I suspect you are in danger of getting "collectoritis," in which the elusive standards of beauty cause one to develop the finer points of discrimination. What might be lost is the ability to appreciate the unique eccentricity of the variety at hand. However, it could be that AV simply does not meet your basic standards of intrinsic beauty.

Now, having said that, Optimara is noted for wanting to create middle-of-the-road in looks that are strong and reproducible. Somewhat anonymous. Truly, they name them for our amusement, as a marketing strategy. Their originals were simply numbered.

The "plain Janes" of the AV world rather than exotic rarities. Optimara is always experimenting to keep providing its public with something new! Often, they market something to see what becomes popular.

The AV in question has a "wild and wooly" look. As Party suggests, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." If I was your neighbor, I would gladly ask for "joint custody" to try more warmth.

Fun to eavesdrop on the Irina/Joan conversation regarding frozen lakes. I had to put on a sweater to read it. Brrr!

You know, brown spots on leaves are often due to something in the water. Such as chloramine. Some plants are more susceptible.

Let's sing the praises of Monique! So responsive! What a great company!

By the way, as a "newbie," you know tons more about AV than I did starting out.

They are not complicated. They were basically created to be domestic window-sill dwellers that any busy housewife could enjoy. They do their best to mimic fake plants. They are quiet, shapely, smallish. But those features, plus intermittent blooming, seems to compel us to want more.

May I suggest you retain your collection to no more than a dozen.

Joanne

Party_music50, yeah, the brown patches are from "before." I suspect greenhouse damage: burn from water on leaves. But possibly also there could have been damage from sucking insects on some of the other leaves, where I saw some little dots. You probably know the kind I mean, the telltale traces of piercing proboscises.

It so happens that yesterday I, well, disbudded once again, AND removed all the fading foliage, and gave it a supplemental shot of fertilizer. Nothing strong, but maybe half strength instead of one-fourth strength. I have a hunch this one just goes for a lighter green. I'll probably spend the winter seeing if I can get it to be at least "medium" green. All the newer foliage (grown since I got it) looks better, but I think it could be greener still. Perhaps it's a heavy feeder and will want its own fertilizer formulation.

If non-opening buds is a "feature," it's one I can do without. Monique was "??" about it - no clue, no answer, and per her it's not the usual performance of this plant. So, given what I've heard about sporting on other threads, maybe this is just sporting to that particular behavior. We'll see.

Joanne,

I love the smell of cold air, I truly do. Though I don't love being actually cold: one does have to dress properly, for sure. And one of the things that winter cold does for our lakes up here is help keep them clean. Also, I have fewer outdoor insect pests, for instance, than many of you who live in milder climates must face, and I can get away with using zero pesticides at least outdoors, except for biologicals. I also sincerely enjoy shoveling/blowing snow up to a point. (It's WAY easier when it's really cold so the snow is all fluffy and light.) So there are trade-offs.

As for becoming a collector, it will never be more than in a very minor way. I think my max is around 12-15. That's my guess as to the point at which I will decide to draw the line, because I want to be daily well acquainted with each plant, not just passing by and not noticing for a week what's going on with each one. I will also be selective, and not afraid to lose/discard a plant here and there. I want to try a couple of minis, for instance. And a couple of variegated-leaf types.

For me, this is play. Also, it's just my general MO: I have at least 15 amaryllises (okay okay the aficionados call them hippeastrums, whatever), and have been playing with them too for some years. I grow-on the offsets and give them away when they reach blooming size, so as to share the joy. I've also given away bulbs that eventually just don't please me anymore, more for color/form reasons than anything else. Never never for health reasons, I hope obviously, for if that were an issue, it would be out to the compost heap. This season I'm making a spreadsheet to chart the performance of each "hippie," including notes on culture. Also have 10 orchids: used to have maybe 12-14 at a time, and would still, but decided to start in on AVs instead because why not, it means more to learn. I love the orchids but feel like I've figured them out the best I can. (Excited right now because several are shooting new bloom spikes, hurrah! and two of them are recent favorites.) Used to do leafy house plants, but tossed them all because BORING. Getting something to bloom indoors, repeatedly, is much more challenging, interesting, and rewarding.

I have 75-80 different hosta varieties all around the yard (can we say "collector" yet, though in fact that's just all I have room for; total number of hostas must be 150 or more, and I do dig up and discard some to make room for new arrivals). 10-15 heuchera types (again, that says nothing about number of plants). Been messing with the smaller ephemeral spring bulbs for a while, trying out locations etc. Lots and lots of other perennials/bulbs/rhizomes/grasses, but they're mostly functioning as solo highlights and fillers and not as "collector species." Worked in a nursery for 10-15 summers, which gave me a collector's eye, but also taught me that not every plant can be grown in my particular conditions, no matter how much I admire it and wish it would.

As for the potential for zeroing in on only one standard of AV beauty: Not bloody likely! My Russians charm me. Blah blah I could go on all rhapsodic but this is already too long.

So don't be afraid for me. I've been doing this stuff for a while, and have figured out my boundaries. And my family already knows all about my plant enthusiasms, and nobody rolls their eyes. Indeed, my adult daughters have proven to be chips off the old block, though I'm sure they did their share of eye-rolling as teens. My elder daughter is into the more tropical, fascinating-leaves "houseplants" and loves the geometric whorls of succulents; and my younger has become an orchid collector in her own right and is having fabulous success, doing better than I, in fact, so far. (Could be she has younger plants though: that certainly helps.) All they say when I send them pics of my violets is "Ooooooh!" They may not be into the relatively heavier labor of outdoor gardening, but they certainly don't want to live without plants in the house. We're kinda co-dependent in this family, I guess.

Sympathies re that doll. I think most of us can relate. I have things from my Mom that I keep only because they were hers, and not because they appeal to me at all. And some of those things I think maybe she kept not because she liked them, but because someone she cared for gave them to her, and she felt responsible to preserve the Thing, as if it was preserving the Giver, or preserving Love, or a necessary honoring of both. I get that. But it's a little bit warped..

Whereas on the other hand, I have the earthenware bowl from which her grandmother served her porridge every morning (her mother died when she was 5), and the little matching creamer that poured milk over that porridge all those same mornings. The interior color of the bowl is faded from the daily scrapings of Mom's spoon, and when I look at that I see my Great Grandmother providing for her, every morning, through the Great Depression, when things were pretty tight.

Some things really do have some meaning, and carry love. Others maybe not so much. There really are ways to make choices.

Joan

In my experience, AVs that are very 'fancy' (e.g., holly-leaved, frilly double flowers, variegated, etc etc) are never as sturdy and reliable as the 'ordinary' AVs, like Optimaras. And re collecting, I'm guilty of the AV obsession since I was 8 years old... I have AVs everywhere. lol! My hosta obsession started around 2004. I'm completely out of space inside and out. lol!

Lol, Party_music50! Well, we'll get by with a little help from our friends.

Joan

Hi Joan, I loved your anecdotes. What fun history! You amaze me!

Hi, Party, Re Hostas. Would either or both of you post photos? Maybe of a few? Not sure what they are. I think I have a few in the yard.

Joanne

Here's one of my favorite photos. :)

Is that Montana Variegata? So lovely when mature like this. Think I see some Grand Tiara there as well, nearby.

Here you go.

Abba Dabba Do and Earth Angel.

Blue Giant; Patriot to left, Great Expectations to right, foreground barely visible is a rare find, Rain Forest.

Paradigm.

Oldie but such a showgirl in full shade, Gold Standard.

And just for fun, some clematis, which I've also "collected," hah.

Montana ‘Aureomarginata’. Probably my favorite in the early part of the growing season. :)

Your gardens are beautiful!

'Aureomarginata,' that's right. I haven't said that word for a while so I forgot, but thought I recognized it. I had one once upon a time but wind ripped it to shreds too easily. I have to go for things with a little more substance these days. Gorgeous and happy plant you have there!

I like it so much that I have two! :)

I was attracted to Montana A by a mature one I saw, once upon a time, in a more sheltered location than what I had to offer. Live and learn department: my yard is sheltered from prevailing winds (W to NW, but including around to NE) but when it comes straight off the lake (SE to SW) I can get a pounding, and it swirls over the house and eddies around the corners, and can hit almost anything. That may be changing now as my tree and shrub plantings mature.

Well, just in case anybody wants anything I've pictured... many of my plants are obviously huge, and chipping off a couple eyes to give someone a start, I'm totally willing to do next spring, with thanks to everyone who's put up with my extreme wordiness, and has gotten so far as to read this.

Party and Joan. Thank you! So beautiful!

Joan,

Contacts: readers can contact you through Houzz privately. That is recommended, rather than publicly posting your email address. That would be safer because this is a public site with wide exposure.

To contact you through Houzz, the person clicks on your icon. That will go to your Houzz page. From there, a message can be sent. Then you can decide if you want to answer or not.

It is not a good idea to put your email in a public message.

You can edit your public posted message here by going to the feature in the lower right-hand corner and choosing the edit option. Then you can remove your email. This option is available for only a limited time after you post.

May I suggest you edit your posts to delete your email address.

Joanne