My 20+ year old GJ has some nice smelling blooms. I just wish it was more shrub shaped and a rebloomer. In its windy location, the scent does not spread much when I am pulling weeds nearby so, I do not detect scent until I smell the blooms. Maybe if there were walls around it and was less windy. It has lots of thorns so it is not a rose that I would put near high traffic areas or near children areas.

Gertrude smells wonderful, but she was a black spot magnet in my garden. I also found she did better as a short climber, with the canes pulled nearly horizontal and with a summer pruning. Before I trained her that way, re-bloom was sparse. I liked her, but when she succumbed to rose rosette, I didn't replace her. Overall, she was worth the effort, but there are so many other roses that DON'T require that much effort :P

John

I concur in that canes tendEd to go horizontal. It was average as for me in the black spot department (I use drip irrigation there).

GJ is one of my favorites roses in my garden. I planted four GJs, two are trained as climbers and two are shrubs. Its fragrance is irresistible. It’s true that it gets blackspot often and thorny as well.

I love her, she is one of my most favourite (top 5) roses. The fragrance is heavenly.

She has some weaknesses though. She was a struggler for me when I had her in the ground (poor soil, sandy and stony), she is now in a pot and doing much better. One of my rose friends has her in a climate with warmer summer (and I think better soil) and she is a vigorous monster, throwing out super long octopus canes.

She behaves like a damask perpetual/portland rather than like a modern rose. Two awesome flushes and that's it, no blooms between the flushes or autumn blooms (although this can be very climate-specific). Here, she flowers earlier than other roses, in late May or early June and then the second flush comes in August, when other roses are between flushes, which is useful. Both flushes are similarly good.

The foliage is very damask-looking and can look bad later in the season. The disease resistance is similar to other older DAs - not great, not terrible. It gets blackspot but usually doesn't defoliate fully or at least not too early like some other DAs do.

The shape of the bush and its look between flushes is ugly. Keeping it as a tidy bush is almost impossible. I train her on an obelisk and like it that way, she also works as a short climber on a fence or leaning onto a support.

Interesting comments. She obviously prefers cooler climates than Texas or she just never liked my garden. I grew her as a climber in Houston. She was huge, prickly, blackspot prone, very very slow to repeat if she ever did. Overall, though I kept her for many years, I was never sure why. I kept reading how great she was so held out hope. The beautiful pictures from Wales and NY are why she wasn't shovel pruned during those years. If she still lives in that Houston garden, I bet she has overrun the lot and still hates sharing her bounty.

There are wonderfully fragrant constant bloomers that have been developed over these last few years, so you have many to select from. A word of warning each of us pick up fragrance differently. Dark Lady delights me and my family with her smell, but I have a friend who can pick up no fragrance at all. Yet the friend delights in the smells of others like Mun Woods, etc. I highly recommend going to get a whiff for yourself rather than relying on the opinion of others if it is fragrance that heads you wish list.

Great pictures guys. Good luck B.

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments on Gertrude. I think I will try her out in an area further from my house/traffic and see how she does. As much as I'm curious about her scent and color, I don't want to deal with battling a plant if it's susceptible to disease/problems. I have some big areas on my property that I cleared out this past summer during quarantine, so I'll find a spot for her there and see how she does in full sun, new soil.

@Krista_5NY - Thanks for the tip about Bishop's Castle. Your Gertrude is so pretty with the hot pinks and cooler purple tones. Do you find Bishop's castle color to be similar to Gertrude too? For this spot, I'm trying to find a good, healthy rebloomer with a deep pink/purplish color. Debating between Mary Rose, Bishops Castle, and Bro Cadfael since they seem to have that deep pink and light purple tone when the color fades. Hoping one of them will grow to be large even with our winters. Fragrance comes third for me after size and color. Would love to hear if any of the above 3 stay large and flower a good amount for you. Thanks again

Gertrude shut down completely during my hot summers , producing no blooms. The public garden near my house grows her, she seems quite stingy there as well , but I agree the few blooms she has are strongly fragrant, a very rosy scent.

But between the sprawly habit, vicious thorns and lack of blooms, she got the shovel.

@B_zone5b: Bishop’s Castle repeats better than Gertrude Jekyll and color is lighter than GJ. I think GJ’s fragrance is much stronger than BC’s. BC is quite healthy in my garden. There are some days it gets powdery mildew but not bad at all. I don’t recommend Mary Rose since it doesn’t have good disease resistance. It is susceptible to blackspot in my garden. Brother Cadfael gets tall very quickly. I planted it in my garden this year and within a couple months it is around 10ft tall, I had to cut it back many times. The color is light pink. The bloom is huge though.

Brother Cadfael is so beautiful. Lovely colour and bloom form.

How does Brother Cadfael compare to GJ ? Does Brother Cadfael ball in rain? Does it repeat flower better than GJ?

@daisy08: Yeah Brother Cadfael gets balled in rain. In my garden both of them repeats well. My GJ is 3 years old and Brother Cadfael is just months old so not sure later it will repeat better than GJ. Brother Cadfael seems to be very healthy so far. Here is the pic when it opened.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) - Great info on gertrude. I think I'll pass on her for now until I'm more confident with rose growing. Still new here and don't want to be battling something that has so many issues. Appreciate it.

@htracyn79 PNW-8B Beautiful photos. I can see the coloration on these easily, so thank you. The color I'm aiming for in this spot is that Mary Rose color....kind of pinkish purple. I don't know how to describe it, which is why I like it (the color). Not quite pink, not quite lavender. A cold, hot pink which sounds impossible but I've can see it in certain rose colors, and love it.

Would you describe Bishop's Castle color to be similar to Mary Rose in that way? I didn't realize Brother Cadfael was so pink, but how beautiful. I'll find a place for him somewhere soon, where he can get big. Reminds me of my Strawberry hill's coloration, but fuller, globular blooms which I like.

That photo of your lady gardener, with the bishop next to her is amazing, great combo. I love seeing contrasting roses next to each other, that's king of what I'm planning in this big new garden bed of mine. That touch of warm pink in LG white blooms is the perfect mix with BC. I know color/scent varies a lot, but I don't have many places around here that sell roses, so I'm trying to figure out as much as I can online, and appreciate all the help.

@b_zone5b: more pics of Bishop’s Castle for you

@b_zone5b: Mary Rose’s color is mid pink tone while Bishop’s Castle is quite rich pink. I don’t feel like they are similar.

Highly recommend Bishop’s Castle. Beautiful bloom and foliage, great fragrance, vigorous and excellent repeat. Only one year in my garden but I don‘t have any negatives.

I also have a one year Brother Cadfael and like him very much but very step of the way he’s just a bit behind the Bishop

@htracyn79 PNW-8B - Thank you for sharing, the pictures are helpful. I may try to swap out my Mary Roses with Bishops Castle then, those pictures are so beautiful and I like the rich almost fluorescent color of Bishop's Castle. I think a color like that would pop next to my Jubilee Celebration's warmer, more salmon pink.

Here, too, Mary Rose is a lighter color than Bishop's Castle. Here is BC and MR engulfed by Pink Surprise, and eaten by voles, so I've just planted a second one.

Brother Cadfael is light pink, large fragrant blooms. It grows to about 3 feet tall here, but might grow taller in your 5B zone.

Bishop's Castle is somewhat lighter than Gertrude Jekyll, but both have a glowing medium pink color.

Gertrude Jekyll is taller, closer to 5 feet tall. Even though it gets blackspot it's very hardy and shrugs off these polar vortex winters.

Comparing Bishop's Castle to Mary Rose, I think BC's blooms have a more vibrant color, more saturated hue. If you're looking for a colorful rose for the landscape, I would go with BC.

Bishop's Castle is one of my best Austins for repeat, quality of fragrance and blooms. Blackspot is endemic in my no spray garden, but BC is hardy as well.

Bishop's Castle

Gertrude Jekyll

Gertrude Jekyll and The Generous Gardener

@htracyn79 PNW-8B, thank you. Really love Brother Cadfael in all these photos but any rose that balls in rain is not suitable for my garden.

Really liking Bishop's Castle. It is on my wishlist now.

I have GJ. Not a very attractive shrub but flowers are highly fragrant. It is very popular DA shrub in UK.

Lovely pictures all! Krista, if I haven't asked you already could you comment on the generous gardener? I'm seriously considering this Rose for friends Garden but it's one I don't see mentioned often.

Vapor, I grow two of The Generous Gardener. They are in part shade, a few hours of shade each day. They are 5 feet tall with an arching growth habit, light repeat bloom.

They don't have much dieback from winter, after pruning they are 3-4 feet tall.

Wonderfully fragrant with pink and cream blend blooms.

! Just lovely! Exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for here where I suspect it would climb more oh, but I was hoping for more rebloom. How is it for black spot?

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR - Sheila, thanks for the pictures, I think I can see the difference in them. BC definitely seems deeper toned and more purple which is beautiful. But MR looks pretty too with the nice blend of light pink/lilac.

@Krista_5NY Krista, thanks for the explanation on these all. Helpful to figure out spacing. Pictures are beautiful, I'll definitely have to try Gertrude somewhere at some point. They both have a nice deep pink/lilac glow.

@daisy08(London UK) I keep reading about GJ shrub health being so-so. I'll try her at some point to see about the fragrance.

Edhelka - that single rose is scrumptious!!! Bee yut i ful!!!!!

Krista - I love the dark color of your blooms!!! And there are sooo many gorgeous blooms!! And there are so many petals in your Bishop's Castle and GJ!!!

Tracy - lovely roses...Lady Gardener stole my heart!! GASP on your Brother Cadfael!!! And your Bishop's Castle stems are straight up...no sagging canes...WONDERFUL!!!

Sheila - !!!! Your luscious pinks!!! That color!!

Vapor, it gets blackspot, but not as much as some of my other Austins.

Here's a funny story.

We were on a Rose Rustle in Hwy. 49 gold rush country. We passed this little old church which clearly dated to the mid-19th Century. In front of the "little brown church" there was this blooming rose.

EVERYONE got very excited. I said: "It's an Austin." No one agreed. But, just . . . The foliage whispered "Auuusssstinnnnnnnnn . . . "

So, they took cuttings, and when they rooted and bloomed, it was 'Gertrude Jekyll.'

That's hilarious!

Yep. It was.

Gertrude is beautiful with a wonderful fragrance. Would Comte de chambord be more likely to survive your winter? I think I read that Gertrude was bred from that one.

We'll call you the Austin Whisperer!!! Good eye!!

Howdy - I am considering planting a few GJs along a 4 foot fence and training/pegging her as a horizontal climber. Any thoughts on how far apart I should pant them? We are in zone 7b, just north of ATL.

@Liz Bell I’ve got mine trained similarly and it seems to work alright. Rebloom has been much better in this spot and trained this way. The fence in these photos is about 3.5 feet tall, and there is 8 feet between the fence posts. You’ll need that full eight feet to get the rose this horizontal. I‘ve got shrubs closer than that that are fine, but I wish i had a do-over and could give the other climbers on either side of Gertrude at least another foot. Pics of how it is trained were taken just now, in bloom shots are from last spring. There’s a few canes and laterals missing/in different spots of course but the overall espalier shape is the same and will give you the general idea.

Houzz bumped a picture off. Here’s the picture I took this evening where you can see the general form. Not the best pruning/training job its had, but i had quite a bit to take off this year.

I grew Gertrude Js at my last residence. I kept her pruned tight like a shrub. She was planted next to a grassy pathway, and those thorns…. Eek! But her fragragrance is awe inspiring!! In time, got two predictable flushes (smaller fall) with a bloom here and there throughout the summer. That was all fine since I have low west sun garden strolling tolerance in the heat of high summer and would have missed a July-August flush. Carol

Gertrude in the middle below.

Beautiful border shot portlandmysteryrose!

Thank you, @rosesmi5a! Carol

Katherine - gosh, your yard is beautiful!! And your Gertrude Jekylls light up your whole yard!!

Carol - so many blooms!! The blues really pop and your Gertie is awesome!

@Katherine OK zone 7b Thank you so very much! Your GJ along the fence is spectacular and exactly what I am envisioning. Seeing how you pegged them and the spacing is very, very helpful. XOXOX.

In Zone 10B, be prepared to have it dominate your garden and only bloom in the spring.

In all my life, and all my visits to major gardens, I don't believe I've seen a 'Gertrude Jekyll' in California. FWIW.

LOL, Jeri, I've grown Gertrude Jekyll for ~20 years here in Santa Barbara, CA. Planted in the ground in my back yard. After this thread got revived, I wondered about that pic you posted with the story of the rustled rose being Gertrude Jekyll, because the pic looks nothing like Gertrude!

Wow, I'm totally jealous of Krista's reports and photos of both GJ and The Generous Gardener. I have a tip-hardy GJ that has never once bloomed in 10 or more years I've had her. It's not in great sun but any other rose in that area at least puts out a few blooms. TGG is in a better sun spot and if I'm lucky will put out a single flush of blooms never to be seen the rest of the season. TGG is also notorious for losing most of its canes over the winter and taking forever to regrow them, more than most of my many Austins.

I suspect the snow cover in NY explains some of this, but I'm also learning quite a lot that I don't know about rose growing in my zone (I'll post separately later), so take my input FWIW.

Cynthia

It's a better bloomer here in zone 7a, NC, than many in the heat of summer. It blooms most in spring, sporadically in summer, and has a small fall flsuh.

Here's my old plant which I pegged to other roses.

Here's my newer Gertrude growing along a fence

I think both were grafted.

When you train the canes horizontally it sends up very tall, substantial laterals. I either bend them sideways or prune them.

@erasmus_gw Wow - they are spectacular. I am greedy - I want more pics!

@Katherine OK zone 7b because of your pics of GJ last year, I did the same to mine at home (I have an ugly chain link fence) and it seems to just love this. Mine is only in its second season, so I am not expecting much, but the canes were so flexible and it is pumping out new lateral growth all along the horizontals. So thank you for sharing!