Another picture of how pattern is offset from wall/border/posts etc.

The big reason I may push to "border" a field layout, is to compensate for out of square rooms....thus I can force the herringbone perfect. And make up for the out of square bit w border.

UNDERSTANDING basic tile layouts and installing is becoming a lost art what with all the HGTV DIY half price people playing contractor these days more and more homeowners getting poor results.

Hire wisely smart peiple

That looks like a mess to me. No straight lines in the pattern and some are just placed quite off. Yes if you can I would have it re-done, but seems like the people that did it doesn't have the skills to do so.

Layout issues aside, that’s a very handsome patio. What is the source of the pavers? I really like them!

Edited to add that, irregular cuts aside, the installation appears to have been done very well, but it’s impossible to tell if it was done properly from the pictures alone. Have you brought your concerns to the contractor‘s attention?

• The area is likely not square
• The bricks are not all the same size
• You were either going to get a border that varied in width or a herringbone pattern that had to compensate for the irregularities in the two items.
• The installer decided that the lesser of two evils was to hide in irregularity in the field of herringbone and leave the border consistent.
• Makes sense to me.

BeverlyFLADeziner - even when you're dealing with random size, non square you can still lay things in a straight line, it does require some planning to get it looking good, but there are several bricks that are just slapped in there and not straight or even considered for the spacing. Especially along the border.

It looks fine to me :) beautiful patio

It looks okay to me. Both our front entry/walkway and patio are brick in a herringbone pattern. This is the best I can do with a photo right now. Not sure about mistakes, but I never even noticed or thought about it. All was here when we bought the house.

Sammy-Thank you. We are meeting up tomorrow. So we shall see what happens...

Sammy echoed my thoughts. if you hadn't drawn the line from the door to the post, I'd have struggled to find that and the changes around the edges - eh....

Overall, it looks like it's solid, level, no real lippage, a real challenge when the units are not all the same size - there's quite the variation there and yet the spacing looks "right" around all of them.

Handsome. I'd agree.

just_janni I totally agree. They sloppy edge near the wall is what got me looking at it all with a critical eye. If it had been a little neater edge I may have not noticed either

I'm a perfectionist, but as long as everything was level I can't see that I would have a problem with this. It is done with imperfect bricks so it looks rustic. It looks like a very nice outside patio space. I hope you will be able to enjoy it after the "newness" to you wears off!

ljptwt7- Me too! I wish I could unsee it and just enjoy. But I always expect some level of “perfection“ if I hire someone to do a job. Unfortunately rarely happens. But it definitely could be worse. I just think it could have been done a little neater. Not sure if I can atleast ask them to fix the bad edge near house. Can you selectively repair/reposition individual bricks?

JuneKnow- you sound like my husband haha

Sammy- I forgot to mention the type of brick. They just called it old brick and it matched the existed brick around our house. Here is a close up pic

Beth H- thank you. So basically there is no excuse for it. Either you are qualified to install that pattern or not... no matter the given space. And it’s quite obvious they were not

When the length is not divisible by width, like you have, you have only 2 options. The pattern walks, as yours has done. Or, you have a bunch of different and wider grout lines to keep it to a line that it does not want to naturally follow. Neither option is good. People gripe about either result. They’ll look at the different width grout lines and proclaim it “sloppy and badly spaced”, or they look at the points wandering and proclaim that “he doesn’t know how to do the pattern”.

You can’t choose a material that does not work with the pattern that you want, and then have conniptions about the very predictable result. If the pattern was that important to you, you’d have chosen a product whose length was divisible by its width.

This illustrates the issue. To get the points to line up on a straight axis, you have to use different grout widths. Or, accept that it wanders off axis. Or, select a different tile that meets the pattern requirement.

@User & @User I couldn't agree with you more.

@awells22 You cannot compare your brick or your layout to some of the images others posted that have perfectly sized pavers, etc. Your brick has broken corners, broken edges, different sizes, etc. From the picture, it looks like they did a good, clean job based on the circumstances.

Celadon, I purposely posted my own used brick. none of them were exact. the design isn't perfect, but it certainly doesn't veer off by inches. I've done quite a few herringbone designs. the people she had could have stayed on a straight line, but adjusted the grout widths to make up for any discrepancies. Most bricks are not identical, but yet the herringbone pattern is done quite frequently.

..As for your example, you can't just lay them out like that. you must start w/a perfect 45 degree starting point, and maintain the same degree as you lay the tile. Laying them out freehand like that will NOT get you perfect, as it will veer.

You have to find your 45, (after finding center and using a speed square) and then find the 45 off the edge of your tile to get the perfect starting point. (take a speed square and 45 the corner of your tile. now find center on that. that is where you start your tile. See the red arrow line. the gray line is the center point of space. red line is center of the 45 angle of the corner. you start it like this so you get symmetrical edges)

And of course you have to use the same grout spacing. if your tiles are slightly irregular, the grout will need to be adjusted. But you can't do it freehand.

what you did in the pic will guarantee it will be 'off'. Prob exactly what the brick people did w/hers.

GN, I wasn't comparing the pavers to hers. I was showing her that if she used those pavers, she'd get a more uniform appearance. (Hence the comment of "evenly sized pavers" ) The other photos are done w/used brick.

since her guys did go w/a larger grout spacing, they could have played around w/that to adjust the spacing. However, by not starting correctly and using a center line, they were doomed to veer off. A herringbone design can be done with used brick. and it can be done on straight line. The grout spaces may vary by as much as a 1/2" but it will still be straight.

What the picture shows is the inevitable consequence of choosing the wrong size material for the pattern desired. The pattern wanders because of the geometry.

When you choose wrongly, there are only two solutions. Only 2.

To maintain a straight axis involves different grout spacing. Wider and narrower from the length to the width. No uniformity of grout lines. That is the only way to keep to a straight axis with incorrect sized tile.

Or if you go with with equal grout lines on the short and long dimensions, the pattern axis wanders. You don’t get to have equal grout widths all the way around, *and* a straight axis.

Thats it. 2 choices. This is 10th grade geometry. Any experienced tile setter understands this. The trouble is that they don’t take the time to explain it to their customers. You can’t have your oddball sized tile and have a “perfect” herringbone. Something has to physically give.

Incredible amount of bad information in this thread , hire wisely and know your contractors limits the key here.

Agree. and w/those brick tiles they used, and the large grout lines, they should have been able to maintain a decent straight line. they could have fudged here and there w/the spacing. I never said anything about equal grout widths on the bricks. no way you can have those w/used brick.

All I said was there are many used brick herringbone layouts that don't wander. An experienced tile/paver setter knows how to do it.

we don't know if her guys bothered w/string guidelines, or any type of measurement. To say a straight line can't be maintained w/this pattern and this brick is incorrect. The grout lines will differ, of course. From OP's pic, it's hard to see if it's really that visible. I'm sure you won't get 100% straight, but at the same time you shouldn't look at it and see an obvious lean. like this backsplash