Marie Pavie is not that shade-tolerant. I ordered Marie Daly, and Roses Unlimited sent me Marie Pavie by mistake, I grew it in a pot with 4 hours of evening sun and it gave me 2 to 3 blooms for the entire year, compared to my matured Marie Pavie in full-sun loaded with blooms. The Dark Lady was next to it with zillion of petals, and the Dark Lady bloomed much better in 4 hours of evening sun.

Later on I moved Marie Pavie from pot to morning sun, and it refused to bloom. Here's my OTHER Marie Pavie in full-sun:

thanks @strawchicago z5 I appreciate it! I'm glad I didn't take the plunge. Might try Seafoam instead....or just leave the climbing hydrangea there where it is :p Really appreciate you saving me from disappointment!!

In truth, there is no such thing as a repeat blooming rose that will thrive in full shade. Get some Hostas.

Straw’s experience with Marie Pavie shade vs. full sun is almost exactly what I experienced. Although mine bloomed a bit with morning sun and afternoon shade, it was a small percentage of the one in full sun.

Straw - I'm thrilled with your Marie Pavie!!! What a show stopper!!

In my northern latitude, there is no rose that performs well in full shade, and few that do well in part shade. We are in the same latitude as southern Maine, even though it doesn't look like it on a flat map. But just take a look at a globe, and you will see the difference--this is true of a lot of northern locations. A globe tells the truth of how far north you are. Diane

I have Marie Daly (MP’s sport) in 4 hours sun and she only gets a few blooms here and there. I have Marie Pavie in full sun and she is never without blooms.

I ordered Lyda to try in my shade. The fewer the petals the easier it should be to coax blooms . It can be so frustrating to work with unwanted shade !

What Paul said.

There are plants that thrive in full shade. Roses are not among 'em.

I have fought shade for 30 years of rose growing. I am always looking for the roses that will give me the most blooms with the least sun. I included a picture showing Dark Lady and Souvenir de la Malmaison. This is a picture from years ago, but the blooming has remained consistent. My north garden is shaded by deck, house, and a Forest Pansy Redbud growing just to right side of those roses. The sun moves from the right in the picture, but I get no sun until it passes over my neighbor's tall trees, then mid-morning sun until noonish +, then it starts getting blocked again by my Sweet Olive tree, the house, and deck. Remainer of day they do have bright light, this is Texas, so you must go underground to get total shade. They both bloom constantly and la Malmaison stays small even here. You can keep her under 2' if you choose. The Lady reaches up into the Forest Pansy now which has a limb that leans right over her, about 4' from ground. (The F P lost her footing in a windstorm and has been growing sideways for years). I thought I would have to move Lady but she never slowed down- got leggy but still gives tons of flowers year-round (as many as another Lady that is planted in my sunniest bed) She is full of blooms right now. Shade and part shade seem to relate to such different conditions for each of us, regardless of their horticulture description, I hope my explanation helps. I do not think either rose could perform with less than I descripted they are receiving.

I added Easy Does It this year and it is doing incredibly well in a great deal of shade. I think it may become my best rose for those too shady spots. My experience has been that a large root system helps them bloom more. Thus, plants who once got some sun then lost it due to circumstances were my best performers. But Easy has performed its first year from gal plants. I bought 3 and located each in different degrees of shade. They all bloom but more shade has meant shower reset of blossoms. The other side of that coin is that the blossoms last longer. I will post again once plants have had a second-year growth and a better judgement can be made. I am encouraged.

I am certain that those who are blessed with more sun think we are all nuts when so many other plants thrive in part shade to more shade. No matter the blossoms from an azalea, hydrangea, etc. if it is roses you love, nothing else will do. If the site can approach 4 hrs and have bright light the rest of the day then a rose bush it will have. I will delight over the few blooms I get and ignore my shade loving plant next to it that is full of flowers. 🥀🌞

Agree with the above !! I'm in zone 5 (Chicagoland is one of the least sunny day locations in the nation). I have 20+ trees that shade my garden, plus a tall house. I'm lazy and don't like to water my roses so partial shade is fine with me. I'm also lazy in dead-heading so my enjoyment of a few blooms is better than chopping off spent blooms.

Agree with the more established a rose is, the bigger the root system, and more blooms in partial shade. Sweet Mademoiselle was VERY STINGY in its 1st year as own-root, but in 2nd year it gave 40+ blooms per flush in only 4 hours of morning sun (weak sun in cold zone 5 October).

Pictures of roses in 4 hours of morning sun: Best bloomer in few hours of morning sun is Twilight Zone:

Pat Austin blooming in less than 4 hrs. of morning sun:

Also blooms in partial shade are higher-quality with more petals: Left is W.S. 2000, pink is Radio Times, right is The Dark Lady .. all in only 4 hours of sun.

Aloha (pink) is a good bloomer in 4 hours of evening sun:

Sweet Mademoiselle (salmon pink) is the best bloomer in 4 hours of morning sun, and Savannah (pink) below has more petals after I moved from full sun to partial shade:

Sweet Mademoiselle has 40+ blooms in late October, in 4 hours of weak morning sun in zone 5. Below is 1 bush of Sweet M.,, very wide and tall.

My vote for the best bloomer in least sun is Crown Princess Magareta, now 9th-year own-root, with 4 hours of evening sun. It's a large shrub with big root system, below pic. is taken in July 2020:

Below was when I piled up alfalfa hay .. the best RAW fertilizer ever !!

Some Austin roses DEMAND partial shade, and wilt badly in full-sun, such as W.S. 2000, now 10th-year own root, continuous bloomer in 4 hours of morning sun:

Much higher quality bloom of W.S. 2000 in Oct., when the sun is weak but plenty of rain:

The Dark lady in 4 hours of evening sun:

Bolero with lots of blooms in only 4 hours of morning sun. Better for cutting than the other Bolero in full sun, which blooms in cluster with shorter stems.

Below Princess Anne is in 4 hours of morning sun:

Zeph. Drouhin in 4 hours of evening sun, raspberry-rose scent floats 30 feet away:

Below Comte de Chambord does better in 4 hours of morning sun. It wilted badly in full-sun.

Good post straw, look forward to investigating your choices for my heat. Love Austin roses but many shatter down here in heat. I have the Crown Princess and though she is strong bloomer in heat few petals and fast to shatter. However, Dark Lady is my strongest shady rose.
Had similar experience with Bolero. Mine are new this year but already nice size. The ones in more shade have same longer leaning stems, they reach for sun and over stone edging where my 80 lb male poodle waters it. I decided to let it be the base bloomer under my leggy icebergs maybe using iceberg canes to support those stems. I will probably kill both plants by screwing up roots in Feb when I replant.

have you tried America in part sun? I have been on the lookout for arose to live on one side of an arch. It or Zeph. Drouhin are under consideration. I like the brighter salmon color of America

Austin, I found Won Fang Yon to be an incredible Tea rose of a vibrant color. It tolerated heat so well here. I have now planted the baby in a prominent spot.

lovely, new to me/ do you feel it would be suitable as a climber for my arch in part shade... have limited width it will have to grow up

It is new here, Austin. I think it is a full bodied Tea. I saw one at RVRs that was probably 6-8 ft. I'm not sure about exposure. I planted mine in the sunny exposure here because it tolerated and bloomed so well in the extreme heat we had last Summer. Something about it is very special. It was so perfectly healthy with beautiful foliage.

Austinkisses: I saw America in full-sun & in a pot at Home Depot and it was stingy with 1 bloom, most likely won't do well in partial-shade. In contrast, store's Francis Meilland is loaded with buds (at least 4 per stem), and Lavenderlace in Texas told me that her Francis Meilland blooms well in partial shade.

Roses that can do cluster blooming like Bolero, Twilight Zone, Sweet Mademoiselle do well in partial shade. Roses that give one bloom per stem, like Evelyn, do best in full-sun. Roses with zillion of tiny petals, like Austin roses, tolerate partial shade .. water-hogs Austin that need constant moisture are better in partial shade.

Roses with less petals like Frederic Mistral or hybrid teas need more sun. Dark reds, whites, yellows, dark purples, and blues are more shade-tolerant.

My Christopher Marlowe (10-year own-root Austin) does cluster blooming and bloom well in 4 hours of morning, the scent is just as good as America:

Below is W.S. 2000 with cluster-blooming in 4 hours of morning sun. It's a tiny own-root 1' x 1'.

Austinkisses - your garden shot is amazing! I can't believe that spot doesn't get full sun! :) Wow!

Al - my goodness!!! Beautiful!!! Incredible blooming...especially in shade!

Straw - I love your TZ!!! Great grower in shade for you! And your many petalled blooms look great! WS2000, The Dark Lady and Radio Times are stunning!!!! Oh SWOON!!! Aloha and SM!! I agree with you...your CPM is really, really beautiful!!! Wonderful, wonderful!!

Sheila - that's a really beautiful plant with lovely flowers...WFY!!! Oh my!!!

Thanks Straw good share. Great beautiful pictures. This spot requires a climber I removed Climbing Pinkie last year. Interesting how climates change results. Evelyn always cluster blooms here rarely single. For me yellow and orange Austins shatter in a day and are not full petaled in heat. Most pales colors turn ugly cream, Will gets crispy as do several reds. I know America strong bloomer in Texas, grew it 20 yrs ago just cannot recall how much sun I gave it, as I remember not too much. I also do not recall if it bloomed spring, fall.....or spring, summer, fall. Our long summers need blooms in my garden. I thought as a shorter climber almost bush it was cluster flowering, but I could be wrong. Ben confirmed that due to its heritage, it was good bloomer for Texas but not certain his take on limited sun.

Now it seems that Dark Lady is grand for us both. Never without multiple blooms be it 100 degrees or 30 degrees. They are always large and always full petals and never fading. Mine are 6 inches now and covering my almost total shade bush. I removed most all my Austins (50) to replace with more modern bushes with holding power. I left a few Austins that are special to me and some antiques. . Though for me most Austins bloomed continually, were beautiful and could perform in less sun you often give up flower form, flower size, color, and had to forgo staying power on bush and vase You must also accommodate large plants as they all get enormous in our heat. Worth all the negatives but I was up for a change after 20++ yrs. of their limitations. You must live in Texas to understand our climate, ha words do not do it justice. You gotta like to sweat, be willing to have you garden de-mosquitoed, live with RRD, and have huge water bills. But for a Texan all roads lead back to here.... (I am keeping our assets a secret). Your Chris Marlowe is something to consider. It has my fav flower form, and your pictures show a spectacular bush. It is one of the few I did not grow. Your knowledge and advice are always a bonus. Thanks for taking the time.

Zeph. Drouhin has always been a consideration but I hear it gets very very very large down here. Sorry my post was repetitive of the earlier one, multi-tasking and not paying attention. I find something always suffers when I multi-task these days, an age thing.

Shelia, I has no idea there was a Tea Rose out there with so vibrant a red! Won Fang Yon is incredible! Where did you get her? So far the Tea roses in my garden seem very well adapted to our SoCal inland climate, with the exception of some powdery mildew tendencies for this group. All my plants are baby 2 year olds and I am 35 miles inland so I am hoping they do better with the mildew over time.

Stephanie, Rogue Valley Roses has this treasure which is related to Monsieur Tillier, but has better heat tolerance I think. This is a Paul Barden rose. Sometimes you need a more intense color. The paler colors can wash out sometimes.

I've heard more water can help roses not get mildew. The Tea roses seem really well adapted here too. They always look good.

Mildew is rare here, but you had a great idea of watering roses extra by your Sycamore tree. Here, I too have this need to supplement the emitters in certain areas. Duh. I should have been doing this all along I'm sure. Thank you.

Shelia, My Monsieur Tillier is a very vigorous rose here with zero mildew but a touch of rust the first Spring in the ground and none since then. It starts out with buds tinged mauve and then a beautiful coral pink that opens fully to a center of gold hues. Also MT has a very lovely, but mild fragrance of bananas and black pepper. However, it has the bad habit of blooms shrinking in the heat. He has a fabulous winter display and is setting a huge flush right now. Won Fang Yon looks like a deeper color....is it darker red with cool or warm tones? Do the blooms shrink in the heat? Sometimes it’s hard to tell the real color in a photo. You have MT too right?

Straw, Crown Princess Margareta is definitely on my shade tolerant list now! What a beautiful rose in 4 hours sun!

Yes, Stephanie, I have them both. Won Fang Yon has just been put in the ground here. My MT is 4 years old. So far, my sense is that WFY is even deeper colored and less heat affected. I was really surprised when Daisy, I think it was, was removing her MT. My MT has smaller blooms in extreme heat but is still outstanding.

My WFY looked so good when some of the other small plants were frying a bit in the heat. The blooms did not shrink in the heat. It will need a bit longer to see how the plant develops, but this rose started looking good so young when some other Teas do not at the same age. I'll try to post some photos next Spring so you can see how the plant develops.

Let me confess straight out that I didn't (yet) read all of the posts on this thread,so if I say anything redundant, that is why. I myself have a very, very different situation from that of Aaron, the OP. My garden, here in roasting-hot Italy, has a south-western exposure. I have an area, shaded by a large oak, that gets sun only in the late afternoon. I think this situation is much worse than that which Aaron describes,since I've read that roses can tolerate only morning sun much, much better than they can only evening sun. However, I think that what Diane Brakefield write is extremely pertinent; the amount of light is going to differ vastly according to one's latitude. My shaded roses are not -for now-stellar, but they might do better if I pamper them a bit more,since they do have to deal with the competition of the oak's roots.

From what I've read, Hybrid Musks tend to be shade tolerant. Lilyfinch makes an excellent point, too; roses with few petals can handle a lot more shade than fuller ones can. My Narrow Water-a noisette-is in a very shady spot and is doing well, even without pampering.

When trying to find out about the shade tolerance of a given variety, I like to go to the Peter Beales's site. In their on-line catalogue they do state if a given rose is shade tolerant. I figure that if a rose will tolerate some shade in the UK, it will appreciate some shade here in Italy. But I don't know how this would work out for gardeners in the northern USA. But the fact that Aaron's site does get sun in the AM is an advantage; the presence of the pine trees instead is a dis-advantage.

@strawchicago z5 after looking at your beautiful pictures I think I have to go back and get a Bolero after all! Your pictures are always heavenly. Thank you everyone for your input and advice!!

FYI: My experience with the Crown Princess is that she gets very stingy with petals in high heat (98+) but still pumps out the flowers....and the color remains. Mine shatter fast, very fast and flowers are not attractive. If you cut in the very early morning, just after sunrise then they fair better.

In my shady garden areas, the full petaled flowers perform much better than those with less petals. The exception being roses that are prone to balling. I am sure there are singles and semi-doubles that can hold petals in Dallas heat, they are just not ones I have grown. Judith or Ben have probably discovered some, they grow so many. I have certainly been reminded from reading this thread that shade tolerance, like everything else, is dependent on your location. It is so helpful to read about the experiences of others in your location not just your zone.

to that a point - it would be so so helpful if everyone listed their zone, including location even better. It makes all the difference when searching for the right bush and wishing to avoid experimenting.

That is so interesting, austinkisses, that the many-petaleed ones do better for you in shade than the singles.

In my opinion location is much, much more meaningful than the USDA zones. I think Tuscany, Italy, where I live, is considered to be around a zone 8 or maybe closer to 9 now with the climate change,but I think that the climate is very, very different from that of the coastal areas of the Pacific Northwest or areas of the southern east of the USA , and yet they are all zones 8-9.

Texas being large has many personalities. I gardened in Houston zone 9, for years and had different results than I do in Dallas Here our temps can and do go to 100 in summer, and often remain for several days, Houston stays in 90’s. Same roses giving totally different results. I seems it is that high heat that changes all. My guess is our Texas Hill Country may be more like yours for growing condition. Pacific Northwest may as well be on a different planet from that of Dallas. I don’t have the years left to play with rose selections so I tend to be selective... overthinking usually- as is my nature. 🥴You have a beautiful country and I can visualize a wonderful single tumbling over a fence in part shade. The look works.

Hmm... I am not sure about under pine trees--that might be a tough spot for many roses, or any plant other than a ferm, but what I can say about Marie Pavie, is that she is perhaps her most prolific in late autumn-early winter when she gets almost no direct sun in my garden in a NW exposure (but she is under open sky). And that's sort of cool!