I think your mountain cabin would benefit from colder z 3 roses at that elevation. In Alaska, rugosas and the species roses you mentioned and spinosissimas did best. High Country roses, Corn Hill and Hortico have some great choices. Planting early Spring and watering every other week there does not sound hopeless to me. Matt at HCRs could advise.

We're in the desert hills, but just a few miles up the roads, and I do mean up, the climate and soil totally changes. It's two zones colder, and there are lots of conifers. A friend has lived there for many years, and I have to mention that there is no keeping out elk with a mere fence. They go where they want, when they want, and fences be !@#$. They knock them over. They sleep on her lawn, leave giant piles as gifts, and do lots of damage. Her husband had special permission to take one elk pest in their back yard, and they had venison forever. My point is, I think you may just have to live with the elk. And I agree with Sheila that you will need cold resistant roses, though my friend has managed to grow some for years in spite of elk and cold. I don't think she grows any rugosas. Diane

Shiela, Corn hill- I've never heard of them, but looks like the offer a bunch of options! Are they own root there? I'll prob be spending lots of time looking at what they offer while kids are doing online school.

Diane, I know Elk are so pesky. When we were up there a couple weeks ago, we saw a herd of about 100+. I'm sure it's probably hopeless to even attempt, but I just cant resist trying. We already have plenty of elk in the freezer, so our best bet is just trying to find stuff they don't love. haha.

Yes, own root at Corn Hill, Sam. I did have a cabin in Homer, Alaska and my remote attempts (I was at least 5 hrs away in Eagle River) to grow roses was a fail, but Homer was dry and I did not go every two weeks or make another watering plan. They dried out. No elevation there, but drier than I realized.

Sam, my friend has been able to grow roses for years because the elk and deer eat the and damage their fruit trees, and love the smorgasbord of a veg garden they grow. They must be so full, the roses are an afterthought. I'm not quite sure how much supplemental water she has to give her roses. They get lots of snow and a bit more rain than we do. Diane

I think your best bet would be to go with the thorniest/prickliest varieties you can find, like maybe some of the rugosas, Sam. No plant is deer/wildlife-proof, but the more “uncomfortable” it is for them to eat, the less likely they’ll be to be chewing on it—even when other food sources are limited! It’s been a long time since I worked with them, but if I remember right, Austrian Copper is also very “prickly.”

You might also consider some of the “wild” roses, like Rosa woodsii—see link below. As a matter of fact, if there’s “public land,” near your property you might “take a hike” some day and see if you can find a patch of them near your cabin, and, if there are a LOT of them, possibly dig a small one to replant to give you a start—or if you’re not comfortable doing that, in late summer collect some of the hips and start some of your own—I suspect they’d be pretty easy to start by just burying the whole hips in a “protected place” in fall or early winter!

If you do that, tho, remember that “small plants,” even of species wildlife don’t normally eat, will often be quickly eaten, so some form of sturdy protection would very likely be required until anything you plant as a “small plant,” or start from seed, gets big enough to “defend itself.” If you’re willing to put in the work, it seems to me that hardware cloth bent into a “cage shape” could be securely anchored over small plants with pieces of rebar pounded into the ground, and later removed as the plant grows up.

Not about roses, but when I was first thinking of plants that wouldn’t be eaten, raspberries came to mind—but then it dawned on me that you probably don’t want to be attracting a bunch of bears to your property! ;-)

Just curious! Is your cabin anywhere near the front range?

With or without roses, I’m sure you’ll enjoy your time there,

Skybird

https://uswildflowers.com/detail.php?SName=Rosa%20woodsii

T 12.01.20 @ 1255 MST

Thank you skybird! I was definitely thinking of rugosas to try. I actually have one in my yard that I may move up there. I know there are lots of wild type roses up around there, but they all seem really low growing and I want something bigger. Rasberries sound great, but you are right that as much as I enjoy wildlife, I'd rather not start feeding the bears. =)

The cabin is outside of Como, so not far from Denver at all. I live in Berthoud, so it's just over 2 hours up there. The place is a total dump, and is going to require a lot of work, but it is OUR dump, and our kiddos are already in love with the place. A few flowers around the place wold really brighten it up. Also thinking about trying to seed with some native flowers in the meadow, but not sure how to go about it since it's already an established meadow. Might just toss some out there and see if anything comes up.

Diane, maybe I just need to plant some stuff that I'm not too attached to so that those elk can be well fed without eating the roses.

Sam

High Country Roses sell species roses that would get large too, plus good rugosas. That is a great company.

Oh, how I wish I could have A Dump, or absolutely anything with four walls, a waterproof roof, and a door that locks, up in the high country! Like you said, it’s YOUR Dump!

Are you far enough off from Como to be in a wooded or partially wooded area? You describe your meadow as “established”—does that mean established with natives, or established with “weeds,” as in noxious and invasive species? I’m guessing that nothing has been “disturbed” in that area for many, many years, and that what you have is, at least primarily, natives! If it’s mostly/all natives, and you want to add a “wildflower” mix, I recommend checking out Prairie Moon!

https://www.prairiemoon.com/

It’s a “good” company, by my definition! That means they don’t do anything that could be harmful to the ecosystem—check out the info on their site that tells about systemic insecticides—neonicotinoids! I’d say they also don’t sell any GMO’s, but then since they sell only “natives,” there are no GMO-anythings involved with any of their seeds anyway! (If you’re ever looking for veggie seeds, and some flower seeds, from companies who do not/will not sell GMO seeds, let me know! I have three of them, and they’re the only place I order veggie seeds from anymore!)

On their main page click on seed mixes. They have lots of different possibilities! They’re from Minnesota, so, no, they don’t “really” understand “our” conditions, but many of their mixes would work just fine out here. I checked out the “Deer Resistant” mix, and it looks like it could be a good option for you to try. Click on “components” to get a list of the plants in the mix, and then, at the bottom of that list is a link to pics of many of the included plants. The only way to know which ones would or would not grow/thrive on your land would be to sow some and wait to see! Since you’d be planting in an established area, it would probably take at least two years, and probably more like 3 to 4 years to find out what will really do well.

https://www.prairiemoon.com/deer-resistant-seed-mix.html

Without having seen it, what I’d recommend for the area you’ve described, is, rather than trying to broadcast the seeds over the entire area, I’d try picking a “few” smaller areas—maybe the “most visible” from the cabin or something—and sow seeds there first. That way you could get a feel for how well it’s going to work—and I have A Feeling you’re gonna have that cabin for a long time, so you’ll have plenty of time to Play With Things! If it’s sunny enough you could also sow a couple small areas real near the cabin—again—to see what happens! If it works it would give you some color near the cabin.

OR! You could wait to see what grows well in the meadow, and—the wonderful thing about native wildflowers!—is that almost all of them will reseed PROLIFICALLY! So you could wait to see what makes it, is doing really well, and that you like the best, and then collect seed from those plants and (some fall) sow a bunch of those seeds wherever you’d like to have them near the cabin. Alternately! If you can pick out some of the ones you’d like closer to the cabin, you can buy individual packs of all their seeds, so you could just get a couple packs of something to try near the cabin! Buying a few “packs” would save you from needing to wait a few years, and it would also keep you from having a bunch of the wild/native grasses in the mix coming up right by the cabin. But, LOTS of different possibilities!

Unfortunately—for you!—their individual packet price just went up from $2.50 to $3.00—about a week ago! Yes, I’ve bought seed from them a couple times—got some I was gonna plant on a high (dry) mesa immediately south of Mesa Verde—but it’s on Indian Land, and I never had an opportunity to be out there with “enough time” to get it done! Also bought several “more unusual” varieties of perennials to try in my backyard, and am hoping to get some of them winter sown this year! But they really are a good company, and I’ve been very happy with the things I’ve gotten from them!

There’s LOTS of info on their site about how to do what you’re thinking of doing! None of it suggests starting in “small areas” like I’ve done, but if you got a few smaller areas going, you could then collect seed when it’s ripe from the plants you like and scatter it in other places—or just cut off the tops of the plants with the seedheads attached and walk around “shaking them here and there” to spread the seeds to other areas—which would happen naturally anyway, but you could “speed it up!” (If anybody sees you and wonders what you’re doing, tell them you’re doing a Mystical Ceremony!)

They also have a lot of info about “how to burn a prairie,” but while I agree that that would be a very good thing to do—American Indians did it for thousands of years before we discovered this place!—I suggest skipping that step out there—unless you’d like to get arrested! ;-D

They also talk about getting rid of weeds a lot, and if I’m right that you don’t have many/any, you can skip all that stuff too. My recommendation would be to pick out several “small” areas, loosening the soil slightly so the seeds don’t just “stay on top,” and then seed right there and mark where you sowed so you’ll be sure where to watch in spring. Don’t “disturb” the soil TOO much or you could possibly “stir up” a bunch of dormant weed seeds and create an unnecessary problem for yourself. I HIGHLY recommend doing it in fall, as close to “just before you start to get snow out there” as possible. Let Nature do the work of germinating them for you!

https://www.prairiemoon.com/blog/learning-center

For color around the cabin you could also consider planting some different alliums—there’s only one in the seed mix. All alliums are “onions,” and are considered to be “deer resistant,” and there are some really pretty ones! (google Allium giganteum! Or Allium cristophii) Check out the Van Engelen site to see some of the possibilities—they’re sold out for this year, but it would be a “next fall” thing to do anyway. I have a real pretty small pink one—and they reseed every-which-where! Another spring bulb that’s “toxic,” and is supposedly left alone by animals is daffodils! Might try a few of those too, to see how well they work—virtually all spring bulbs (planted in fall) need full to most sun, so it depends on what’s right around the cabin!

About the roses! I know what you mean about the “really low growing” roses you see out in the hills, and I don’t know what species they are—or if they’re just “dwarfed” because they’re growing in too much shade, which is where I’m usually walking when I see them. But High Country has R. woodsii, and they describe it as a 3-4 foot bush, so maybe the ones we’re “seeing” out there are a different species!

https://www.highcountryroses.com/shop/species-roses/rosa-woodsii/

You have the whole, long, dark winter to sit and plan and dream about all these things, so, enjoy your Dreaming!

I know I’ve gotten way off base here for a “rose thread,” but since it’s your thread, if you’re unhappy with any of this, let me know!

Skybird

T 12.01.20 @ 1555 MST

I grow lots of reseeding wildish flowers that you could try. I've never planted a single flower in these pics, and the resident mule deer leave all this kind of stuff alone. I did throw the Dara seed out one time, but all the others planted themselves. All you will have to do is plant one or two to get started, and then let them go. Dara is the purple wild carrot, a form of Queen Ann's Lace. I recommend Indian Summer Rudbeckia, purple coneflower, Jupiter's beard, wild blue flax, among others. Diane

Thanks, Sam. Isn't the West just gorgeous? I love your property, and I know you're going to enjoy it so much. I just wanted to mention that lots of the seeds of the plants above can be tossed about any time, even winter. In fact the purple poppy likes a lot of cold when it's sown. It's an annual poppy--Lauren's Dark Grape, and I'll have to check where you can order it online. The woman who hybridized this poppy is from Colorado. Apparently, she grew multiple generations of poppies until the seed consistently produced nothing but the dark grape colored poppies. There is a "grape", and a "dark grape" available in packets. I prefer the darker one. You only buy the seed once, and after that just harvest the seeds in their funny pepper shaker seed cases. The Indian Summer Rudbeckia originally started with a couple of plants. When they go to seed, cut back the spent flower heads and scatter them in new areas, or simply let the plants choose where they want to go. Purple Coneflower does the same thing. Diane

Wow! That’s incredible! And it comes with your own private Colorado Gold mine every fall! What a place!

From what I can see it looks like almost all native grasses. You’re bound to have at least some flowers blooming there next spring/early summer, but I don’t see much in the pics, so it might just be some really short things like wild Erigeron or Asters—and they’re so similar I can’t tell them apart in the wild. Odds are there will be other things blooming, but if there was anything tall out there you should still be seeing the remains of this year’s plants, so I doubt you’ll have any “tall” wildflowers. I wouldn’t mess with the grasses at all, would recommend that if you decide to do it you plant/sow your wildflower seeds in the “more bare” areas between the grasses. If you want color—and I sure would if it was me!—you could gradually develop a wonderful Native Garden out there.

Something I didn’t think about till I saw the grasses! If you can find some Castilleja, Indian Paintbrush seeds, you have the perfect place to plant them! They’re parasites, and need the roots of another plant to “grow on,” and they apparently prefer grasses! If you took a knife and made a “slit” on the edge of some of the “tufts of grass” and then smooth soil over to fill in the slit and sow some of the seeds on the surface right next to the grass, chances are some of them would germinate. By “disturbing” the roots of the grass you’d make it easier for any germinating seeds to “attach to” the grass roots! There are MANY different species, and I can’t tell you what would grow best out there, but they grow ALL over out here in the Rocky Mountain area—most of them are different shades of red or orange. You could do some research about which might grow best at high altitude, or you could just pick up whatever you can find and “give it a try!” Finding seeds would be “more difficult” than for most “ordinary” seeds because they need very specific growing conditions, and very few people would be successful with them in a “normal backyard garden!” If you ever see some blooming near there, you could also watch for them to produce seed and then harvest a few of the seed pods—and then you’d know you had something that would grow in that area!

If we’re ever able to start having swaps again, I’ll probably be bringing seeds for Allium and other spring bulbs with me! I have a small backyard, and have discovered that I NEED to deadhead them before they start to drop seed or I have them coming up ALL over the place! Definitely cut the seedheads off of your allium next year and take them out to the cabin to plant them—wonderful way to get free seed!

I can’t tell if there are aspen around the cabin, or mostly conifers, but if it’s aspen, keep an eye out next spring to see if there’s a spot that’s mostly sunny before the aspen leaf out! If there is you could try planting spring bulbs there, since they bloom in spring they’d be in sun, and, hopefully they’d get sun long enough before the foliage died down to “prepare” for the following year. No way to know but to try it. If it’s all conifers none of the things we’re talking about here are gonna work—but if you get enough things blooming in the meadow you might not even miss them around the cabin! Keep the sun in mind with any roses too, they NEED sun to do well.

Are you still going up there at all this year, or is everything “shut down” until next spring? I have a reason for asking!!!

Skybird

T 12.01.20 @ 1840 MST

Ill have to look into indian paintbrush. Those are so beautiful and I had no idea that's how they grow. Sounds fascinating. Yes we still go up there for now, probably going this weekend actually. As long as the snow isn't too bad, we still like to get away. It's cold, but we can get it heated up okay so far (though we haven't been there when it's been too cold yet.) We really don't have anything to "shut down" since we don't have running water inside. (Yep, it has an outhouse!)

There is a clearing on one side of the cabin that I think will get enough sun for a few flowers. We are in the process of clearing out trees directly around it also, just for fire safety and to add a little sunshine to heat it during the day. I've been looking at prairie moon for the last few minutes. Good to know they are a reputable company.

Diane, Laurens grape poppy is beautiful! I may need to try those. I looked it up and it looks like they aren't impossible to come by. I know coneflowers spread like mad, so I'll definitely be tossing some seed around up there.

Ok! Here’s why I was asking! I still have the seeds I mentioned that I was planning to plant down on the Ute Mountain Tribal Park, and with covid, I’m certain there’s not gonna be any time soon when I’ll have a chance to plant them, so if you’d like “half” of each of the packets of seed I have, you’re welcome to them! It would be porch pickup, near 120th and Colorado Blvd. You might be “too far” to want to bother to do that, or if you’re gonna be down this way anyway..…Hey, at least I’m on “the north end!”

Here’s what they are! Only one of them is the exact same species as is on the “deer resistant list!”

Echinacea pallida, pale purple coneflower (on list)

Echinacea angustifolia, narrow-leafed coneflower

Solidago nemoralis, old field goldenrod (this is NOT ragweed, the stuff that causes hay fever!)

Ratibida columnifera, long-headed coneflower

Liatris punctata, dotted blazing star

Coreopsis palmata, prairie coreopsis

And they sent me a pack of free Heliopsis helianthoides seed—not many seeds in the packet and you can have it all! This is a “false” sunflower—not the same thing that sunflower seeds birds eat come from!

These seeds were packed for 2016, so I’m sure the germination rate has gone down at least some, but they’ve been stored in plastic, in the fridge ever since I got them!

If you want to try, let me know so I can “divide” the packs and get them ready. You’d get them in small zipper bags with just the genus/species on them! How many you’d get of each would depend on how many were in the packets they sent me! You can look up specific info on the Prairie Moon site!

If you took them up there and found a few “bare” spots, loosened up the soil somewhat, scattered quite a few seeds in any one spot, then lightly “smoothed” the soil over them, odds are “something” would come up in spring! If there’s snow in the area I’d recommend “piling” some on top of where you planted as soon as you're done! If you do it, take some “cooking skewers” or something along to mark where you plant them! If you want them and have any questions, ask!

These seeds were all selected to grow, hopefully, on top of a hot, dry mesa in extreme southwestern Colorado—that had burned a whole buncha years ago now, but does have some native grasses that have grown back since the fire!

Let me know!

Skybird

P.S. Four walls, a roof that doesn’t leak, and a door that locks! The outhouse works for me! ;-)

T 12.01.20 @ 1920 MST

Sky-bird that is such a sweet and generous offer. Sam I love your place! What a find.

What a wonderful plot. I've ordered from Prairie Moon. They are great. My sister lives close to them in Minnesota. Lauren Springer of the purple poppies has written great gardening books for rugged areas. Amazon.

The Denver Botanical garden is great too and you could get wonderful ideas.

Oh my goodness, Skybird. That is such a kind and generous offer. I'd be thrilled to try out some of your seeds and see if any take. I'd be happy to give you something in return, though possibly not until spring. I have lots of fancy daylilies and some nice iris, in addition to some neat rock garden plants, and seedlings of various other perennials. I also have lots of nice roses, though I'm not sure which ones can have cuttings made and which can't. (patents and such)

Thank you everyone for all your replies! I'll try to update eventually with the outcome of wildflowers and roses! I think my biggest struggle is likely to be the elk. Here is part of the herd that passed through the property when we were up there last time. Beautiful, but pesky! (that's not my cabin!)

Sheila, thank you for mentioning Lauren Springer--I thought it was she who had developed Lauren's Dark Grape Poppy shown above. So this plant was "born" in a rugged part of Colorado.

Sam, what a stunning photo of elk. It really conveys the cold and vastness of the area, too. Best of luck in the wonderful gardening challenges you have ahead of you. Diane

Sam,

Congrats on your cabin! It looks really pretty there. While I have no experience establishing roses in that climate I am interested to hear what you try and what works. If you talk to Matt from High Country Roses he may be able to put you in touch with a rose grower from the high country. Or maybe go through the Denver Rose Society.

Definitely try Harison's Yellow! When it gets big enough the deer damage is negligible and it's hardy as all get out. This is in Colorado at 6100 feet elevation, zone 4 with erratic snow cover and very minimal water, the stump in the middle is 4ft tall for reference. It's not uncommon to be driving through the desert and see a tumbledown homesteader's cabin, long abandoned, with one of these yellow thorny beasts still growing up the side even though it may not have been watered for fifty years. If you fence it the first year or two it will get big enough that the regrowth outpaces the eating, and the stems get tough enough that they don't want to eat it. This one is growing through a fence line but the elk and deer have access to both sides of it and they can't keep it from getting bigger. I have one in my new yard that started from two sticks in spring 2019 and it is right now 4 feet tall, 5 feet wide even though it was hit hard by the deer this fall.

Btw your cabin is gorgeous!!...it's not up on Bear's Ears Mountain by any chance is it?? It looks really familiar, I have friends with a hunting lodge up there.

Also should add, the Colorado elk generally didn't like my irises. Baby roses-heck yeah. Garden veges-obliterated. Irises and day lilies-untouched. Not a hard and fast rule but that's my experience. It might be worth putting a bit of a fence or a cage over them for the first year, so that some nosy four-by-four doesn't come up and pull one up to try and spit it out and let the roots get all dried out, but once they get established they should be good. They didn't need a ton of water for me either, which would be handy for your situation. And another flower that didn't get eaten much was the columbines. They are super stinking hardy, and contrary to garden blogs on pinterest they don't die off after four years and have to be replaced. I had some that were forty years old and still going strong. They can grow in sun or in shade, and when you dead head them just shake the seed pods upside down in the next place you want them to grow and you'll have hundreds and thousands of little seedlings next year.

So now that it is spring, I went ahead and planted two roses up at the mountain property. A harrisons yellow and also a snow pavement rugosa that I brought up from my current house (keeps getting borers that kill off big sections so I cut it down and moved it to the mountains . I did put a wire fence around each of them so fingers crossed I can get them growing. If so, I may add a few more. Also, thanks to the generosity of Skybird, I hope to have some nice wildflowers popping up before too long.

im also happy to see there seem to be lots of native flowers coming up there. There are loads of what look like pasqueflowers growing all over! I’ll update as things progress.

joeywyoming, I didn’t see the lay posts of yours. our cabin isn’t on bears ears mountain So must just be a doppelgänger. Thanks for the tips about the elk. We’ll see what will grow despite them.

I don't want to be a downer, but you may have trouble growing much of anything well at 9,000.

We have a cabin at 8,800 ft in SE Wyoming and anything that doesn't occur there naturally, just kind of barely clings to life. Just not warm enough.

Perhaps it's warmer where you are a little to the south. Maybe you can find a good micro climate for your plants. Good luck!

This was really fun to read, especially since I have close relatives in Colorado and have gone out there to visit them or ski quite a few times. In addition to the rugosas and other recommendations, I suggest you try William Baffin, a bulletproof deep pink Rose from the Canadian Explorer series. I still have four of them and have had several more over time, but I ran out of room for them.

Funny you should mention WB. I just saw this yesterday In a park nearby and was surprised how small it was. I'll have to check my notes to see if this was a recent planting cause I don't remember seeing it there before but I was not impressed. I was just on the cusp of buying also! I'd love to see a picture of yours Nancy.

Sam, animals don't eat daffodils, either (toxic, I believe). I've grown some antique species type daffodils for years successfully here in deer country. My starts came originally from a friend whose husband was riding in the back country (she's the friend who lives in the mountain not far from here). Her husband came across an old abandoned miner's cabin with daffodils growing along the front of the cabin. He took a few for his wife, my friend, who years later passed a few to me. I love passalong plants. Diane

I found the Canadian Morden and Explorers did not love Anchorage, Alaska. I realized that the mid continent Canada really heats up in the Summer in the prairies. Anchorage rarely hit 70 F. Those roses were not inspired. They wanted a warmer Summer. L Clark is right.