Your current heat pump may be R22 Freon model. Trane was very slow to change over to R410a. That being said depending on the condition of your current unit (of which I cannot see, I am not telepathic, psychic or anything in between) You may be able to repair it by replacing the air handler.

12 years is not bad. Today's equipment may not last that long, regardless what brand you pick. I've replaced coils just recently that were barely 3 years old.

In terms of Bosch brand versus the others. Bosch only makes Inverter heat pumps in the air conditioning & heating category. They are inverter only --- no 2 speed or even single speed models.

An inverter is capable of many speeds, some manufactures limit this to a handful of different speeds. Bosch depending on model chosen upwards of 70 different speeds as of the time of this post.

Essentially the Bosch will cut your light bills in half. Regardless of how little you pay, now. Pay close attention to your utility use the KWH part of the bill. Price of power changes all the time. Usage is pretty much stationary from one year to the next unless you have some sort of problem that needs investigating.

The Bosch inverter doesn't require proprietary controls to operate it. While most major brands inverter models will most likely require a proprietary control to operate it as designed. They may have some backwards compatibility mode, but more often than not you will negate the design of the system when operating it like that.

When it's hotter outside, your utility usage will go up with the Bosch. But from what I have seen with mine is that even under those conditions the savings are at least 45% better. Some months may be as high as 60% savings. Why do I say this: because the performance will vary with the weather. This isn't a magic show, it's science. So when we are talking operational costs we are talking averages... it will cut your electric bill in half.

Time: every little bit adds up. I say this so you realize if you compare the Bosch to another option that is a 2 speed even if the 2 speed option is less than the Bosch option. The Bosch operational costs will catch up pretty quick by cutting your current bill in half.

There are risks with the Bosch system. It is a German engineered machine made in China. Some parts may be difficult to come by for a space of time. This greatly depends on the distributor and to some extent your servicer.

Nearly all 2 speed equipment these days will be tied to some sort of communication mode of operation. Some manufacturers like Amana for example have moved this tech to the air handler or furnace (Comfort Bridge Technology). So any off the shelf thermostat will work with these. I don't know of any manufacturer besides the Amana / Goodman / Daikin lines doing this.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

I find it sad that a 12 year old air handler and heat pump needs to be replaced and not repaired. The fact it was a 2-speed 19 SEER system suggests this was supposed to be Trane's better equipment. Now we are at a point where 12 years is considered long in the life of HVAC equipment.

The quote lists flushing the existing line set. That would suggest the current system is R22. Is the model number of the thermostat correct? The price you have been quoted seems high. I am curious if you received a quoted for an equivalent of what you have currently (2-stage 19 SEER).

You should compare the EER numbers on your old and new equipment. If your outdoor temperatures hit 95 degrees on a regular basis, the EER number becomes more an indicator of electricity usage. Of the $1300 you spend on electricity each year have you calculated approximately how much goes towards cooling?

Given your situation, I don't think you need to spend $10,000 plus to replace your system. Just to be clear, it's definitely the air handler that's rusted out? Or is it just the coil?

Thanks everyone,

My system is the R22 freon. If I understand correctly, if I replace the air handler, by law I can only have the unit serviced with freon once after this repair. Thus we are considering the full replacement. An air handler replacement was quoted at $5,000. A coil replacement(we were told it was the coil only) was with freon recharge around $4-4500. An equivalent full system quote was 18,000 for a Seer 18. The top of the line Seer 20 would run $20,000. We will be getting other bids.

Again, if anyone has suggestions on other manufactures I would be glad to hear them.

Our electrical use has usually run about 650Kwh per month in the spring with the hot times of summer around 1100Kwh and the coldest month last year was also at 1100Kwh. Currently a 50% reduction in HVAC operating costs, considering we have an electric hot water heater, I guess would give me maybe a $360 annual savings.

Given the fact that the unit it installed ok and the ducts are in good shape, per the 1st salesman. What is a reasonable price to replace the coil and recharge the system? I assume the trane unit has a proprietary coil that I must use to repair it. I really appreciate your time you are giving to respond.

Thanks,

Sharron

I think you seriously need to get some more bids. A coil replacement shouldn't exceed $2000, although depending on their price for R22 it could go a little higher. But not $4500!

Don't dwell on manufacturer, they're all pretty much the same. A good installation with inexpensive equipment will beat a bad installation with the most expensive equipment.

If we replace the coil, how much expected life should we have for the 12 year old outside component? We were told by the 1st salesman that if we went with an interior air handler for $5000 a separate replacement of the outdoor unit would run $10,000. As retirees, we need to spend our dollars carefully.

The thermostat number I posted earlier was from the bid. Our current thermostat has 3 wires, can it be used with any of the current systems? The salesman said we needed a 4 wire thermostat for the trane unit we are looking at.

Thanks,

Sharron

The salesman is giving you a lot of bad information. He is looking out for his best interest and not yours. It is hard to say how long your air handler and condenser will last without an inspection. Ask you neighbors if they can recommend an honest HVAC company.

I have never heard of a law which only allows one R22 refrigerant service on a new installation. This sounds like a tactic to scare you into buying a new system. R22 is getting expensive so you have to take that into consideration. The story about 3 wire vs 4 wire thermostat is another tactic to sell you a thermostat you probably don't need.

Forget everything this salesman told you. There are drop-in replacements for R22. A coil replacement prices are local - but I would not spend much over $1,000, it is only couple hours of work at most. SEER 19 is a better equipment. Let's say this replacement last you 7 years you are still ahead.

The 3wire vs 4 wire stories are just stories.

Thank you everyone for your input. We will investigate the coil replacement and see what we find. one or $2000 dollars is much better than $10.000.

Sharron

If I go with replacing my coil, should I purchase a 30lb canister of r22 for sale in the open market for future use? Would an AC person be willing to use this if I needed any future recharges?

The cost of a replacement coil has many factors that go with it. The price of $2000 doesn't sound probable on an older R22 model AH in circa 2020 almost 2021. Manufacturer's aren't going to do anything to favor you on repairing an older AH either. Especially not Trane.

To replace that coil from Trane, they will charge you more for just the Coil than what you can buy the AH for. They don't want people like me roaming the streets, so they will make it as difficult as possible. Can it be done with another brand coil? Maybe. It depends. Remember this is skill in doing as much as knowing 'WHAT NOT TO DO'.

Using a 'so called' drop in replacement for R22 in Texas heat. Not to mention it's a heat pump so now you have an experiment going on at your house. Maybe it works for spell but much better is to not reinvent the wheel. The unit was designed for R22, that's what it should get.

Can you find a coil to replace the existing coil with. For $2000, uh no. Probably not. I've done a number of these 'brides of Frankenstein' you're talking skill here. Many that quote prices on the internet are quoting 'yesteryear prices'. Prices change: can you buy gas for $1.00 a gallon. That's approximately the time period in which you could get a coil for $2000.

Unless of course you win the lottery and a home warranty company has decided to honor your contract. But that is an entirely different scenario.

So you go and spend all that money on a new coil that was some how able to work. The price was over $2000. A year or two later the outdoor unit craps out.

If it was me doing the work, I could reuse that same coil with a new R410a heat pump. Again this requires skill in knowing and doing. Not just knowing what to do, also what not to do.

Skill? That being said. What I suggest here can not ALWAYS be done. Remember, I am skilled in knowing what not to do.

The con: I service the Katy, Texas area. (It's a local luxury) I would not EVER use a drop in replacement for a place like Texas with Texas heat. The cost for refrigerants comes when there is a leak, or a replacement part that involves the refrigerant circuit.

If you live in a less heated place, maybe a drop in could work. But I still say it's fool hardy to try to reverse engineer something to save a few $$. When the unit is tied to the grid, sucking money from your wallet to run it. You can bet the new drop in is no where as efficient as to what the unit was engineered for.

Didn't catch it? Or skimmed over it: I service the Katy, Texas area.

So I will buy a jug of R22 myself. So you go out buy it because you don't know what you're doing someone sells you a tank of propane or God knows what. For those reasons I will not use 'your' tank of Rxx? again, knowing what not to do. Plenty more where that came from.

-No do not buy a jug of R22 or R22 replacement. It would be illegal for me to tell you otherwise.

-I do not know if you have A or N coil without you posting some equipment numbers.

-Generic replacements are available if a true replacement is difficult to locate, also generics may not get you a 100% of performance [not a big deal imho]. I am a firm believer that 4T is a 4T(assuming same metering) or you can go a size larger. Trane distributors are a**ls with a chip over their shoulder, even with that a trane dealer should be able to locate replacement coil for you [cased or uncased].

- In your place, I would call local dealers and see if they can fix it for you.

If I do a different brand AH and have it work with my current outside unit? Do I have to match trane with trane. Also if I choose to use a Bosch system, there don't seem to be many people that offer them in the Fort Worth area. I am southwest of Fort Worth. Are they new to the market?

In the manufacturing world you have 7-8 manufacturers. Most of them do not make compressors, fan motors, starting components etc. The manufacturers buy these parts, make their coil(s), cabinets and so on and build the unit. The units are made with 3rd party parts. Probably better than 95% today.

Back in the day Trane used to make their compressors. But that factory was shipped off to Meheeco back in the late 2000's over a decade ago, today you'd be lucky to know from one model to the next what compressor it has. I've seen Chinese compressors in some.

Under that theory how could a Trane work and be matched with a Chinese compressor in it? Because Trane says it's matched. Hold you're breath, you've been baptized. That's essentially it.

When I first started over 26 years ago... I was easily fooled. But witness to alot of salesmanship. That said, if you use someone who doesn't know what they are doing... I will wager a bet you'll likely regret it. People (most people) only do things for $money$. You are doing what you are trying to do for saving money. Most companies are in it only for the money.

Someone could argue: well it's not going to work because AHRI didn't match the system. Like this is the only method to make a system work or not? The builder market uses off brand 3rd party coils... some how AHRI manages to conduct those matches. Or at least they used to I don't know any more... time changes things.

Heck, we don't even use the same Freon and there's rumor cycling that even the newer of these two may be cycled yet again. Save your coin, keep voting Democratic then complain when they impose the next new Green Idea... because it sounds so good on paper. That's the world we live in and they tell me that you voted for it. I'm supposed to believe them so what choice you got, versus what choice I got?

So much fun and 2020 turns 2021... I'm probably the wrong person to ask, LOL.

Bosch has been mostly up and down the east coast, They came to my market in 2019. So they may have not reached Dallas / Ft Worth yet.

Which is why I said: there are risks in choosing Bosch. Distributors play an important role... ironically yes...you pay for that, indirectly.

Got a reference for and asked a fellow to come by today that installs york and lennox. Know for being a reliable, knowledgeable install. In fact he worked for 22 years for the father of a childhood friend. The father had the top lennox residential and commercial dealership for 50 plus years in the town I grew up in. He has york in his own home, says there is little difference between them and the lennox until you get over 20 seer. I am looking at 16-18 seer 2 speed compressor and air handler. Is the lennox worth the extra cost? I will be getting proposals in the next 2 days. While I don't want to rush, I know this warm period will be overtaken by some strong cold weather in January sometime and I would like to not be heating with heat strips.

The father "had" the top?

Oh the stories from top of the heap to the bottom or somewhere in between.

York... a good number of them use micro channel coils. So for that reason not a big fan of York. I work on them though just like any other brand. Micro channels just add more complexity and more trouble.

I prefer the KISS method. But... it's your nickel.

If I could count the stories... so & so relative got into the business. So & so did some work for me. SO & so won't come back here so we called you to fix his mess. (not in those exact words... but I've been around the block and back. Old enough to fill in between the blanks.... so you should too.)

Oh Ray! you're so negative. I'm not always called first. It is what it is. People play money games. What else is there to play?

I have a house in San Antonio with two Trane A/C / NG heat systems that were installed in 1996. I just had the leaking coil replaced in the smaller unit (I think its a two ton) and Flo Aire San Antonio charged $1,800. Its possible that the compressor will also die soon, but so far its working fine, and $1,800 was a reasonable price to keep it going for a few more years. They did not mention any issues with refrigerant type during the replacement, but I assume its R22.

Bruce