Why not pay a HVAC company to do a service call and add refrigerant if needed? If the HVAC is working there is nothing to negotiate on a 30 year old house.

Thank you !

R-22 is still available as reclaimed refrigerant, so small quantities should still be available to top up a system.

You may still end up giving them an allowance for the old A/C, since it will eventually be much harder to service, but you do not have to replace it just to get a sale.

Bruce

As a seller, my negotiating position would be:as is.

The buyer should realize, 30 yo stuff is due for replacement and is not energy efficient.

What selling price range and location?

Do you have a sellers agent?

The condenser is only 8 years old. We don‘t know the efficiency but it could have a 16+ SEER rating. I see canisters of virgin R-22 are available for $149. If there is no leak then no refrigerant needs to added for the next several years.

Just spend the money and have it serviced. If it needs replacement to reach to the required level you can either replace with a cheap unit or give a credit for part of the cost of the cheaper unit so the new owners can select what they want.

If you explain the credit as allowing them to select their unit they may agree. Of course if there is an immediate problem you will need to replace ASAP.

Have it serviced. Fill it up, if possible to find R-22. Done. I wouldn't credit anything. You disclosed up front its age on the Seller Disclosure, right?

R22 is still available from HVAC service companies. It's not cheap but a service (including coil cleaning) and recharge should cost under $500. Get a leak test done first. There are R22 substitutes available for less but they are less efficient.

Buyers have expectations, rightly or wrongly. If the listing said the property had air conditioning, they have the right to expect it works normally.

It's still a little early to tell you... but there's a new refrigerant coming to replace the new err not so new R410a. (It's been around since the mid-90's all of this has been planned.)

However, there's a few kinks in that because currently what is being proposed is mildly flammable. (it burns, it burns.) All of the contenders are classified as A2L refrigerants. Where as R410a is A1 (non flammable).

So what's the problem with R410a? It is deemed highly GWP or has a high global warming potential number assigned to it. That said even the new ones being considered are not entirely GWP free. So maybe another 20 years after this change they discover something else.

They expect it to debut in California no later than 2023 (new equipment only no refrigerant only retrofits, maybe 2024 if they don't somehow get the mildly flammable part of the refrigerant worked into the building code.

So there's some irony in trying to prevent global warming... if homes across America start catching fire for no apparent reason. (Freon leaks are mostly invisible.)

Given what we know about previous refrigerants you may be able to skirt this issue for 20 years, maybe if you're lucky.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

I would say that if a potential buyer has your house inspected by any house inspector worth their salt that you are going to get beaten down and hosed for a NEW system by having an OLD system with R-22. That is, unless the market in your area is so hot that properties are being snapped up without inspections and with no conditions and in your case no 'conditioning'.

IMPO

SR

R22 is still available here in IL but runs around $100 a pound. If the system isn’t ‘flat’ - indicating a leak, you should be able to add a few pounds a be done. If it is flat, many of our customers decide to replace the unit. You shouldn’t have to replace the furnace if it’s running, but our customers often do both together to save on labor. Offer a credit and buy them a home warranty, they can do what they want then.

"I would say that if a potential buyer has your house inspected by any house inspector worth their salt that you are going to get beaten down and hosed for a NEW system by having and OLD system with R-22. That is, unless the market in your area is so hot that properties are being snapped up without inspections and with no conditions and in your case no 'conditioning'."

You're in a foreign country. Are you saying that the real estate laws and practices concerning home sales are the same where you are as in the US? Here, all such matters are subject to negotiation and there's no one outcome to be expected.

Its not working properly, so it is negotiable item if you found out after getting into escrow. Some local HVAC services may have a stash of recycled R-22 which was legal in CA last I checked (prior to 2019). Most HVAC service companies don't as they prefer to sell you a new unit.

If the system is flat on refrigerant it has a leak?

AC systems do not use up refrigerant. It is a perfectly sealed system. If the unit is low, whether flat or not... it has a leak.

In some cases you can gas it up. But these are typically only temporary repairs until the leak in the system can be repaired. At $100 a pound, it pays you to get the leak fixed.

In terms of selling a house, most are gassed and go. The seller puts a home warranty on the house, then the home warranty may deny the claim. Yeah I've played this cat and mouse game one too many times.

It's called the I don't want to spend $$ syndrome.

(Some leaks are really slow... of which are harder to find... but if your freon is low... you have a leak.)

This discussion has gone off the rails because the original author said the refrigerant is R22. It doesn’t matter as long as the AC is working on the day of the closing.

There may be a refrigerant leak. It is possible there was a low charge when the condenser was replaced in 2012. No one knows until a competent tech is able to do a service check.

Where is this unit located? Because you can't get a good inspection of a cooling unit in the winter. Conversely, it's difficult to get a good inspection of a heating unit in the summer. Lots of false numbers generated.

Get an HVAC guy out to service the unit, not a home inspector. Indeed, it may a slow leak. That loss has to be measured over a period of time. You mark the level with a Sharpie and date, then remeasure on the next service. This way you can calculate the rate of loss, if any. Get the units into working condition and buy the new owner a home warranty.

Some units take more coolant than others. If it requires enough expensive coolant, it may be a wash to install an entirely new unit. You won't know until you get the serviceman out to assess it. We ran into this last summer with a 20 year old Heil. They were cheap to put in, but required huge amounts of coolant at higher pressures. The expense came on the back end of the unit. Rather than charge the unit and have to replace it later, we just replaced it. But, we weren't selling.

Ok. If you're selling "as is", you can tell him to go pound sand. But if you want to give a credit (reduction) in order to sell it quick, that's your business.

@weedmeister, You are sort of right, if we did those "repairs", we were very likely to gain ~2K on the price after all, it could take 1~2 weeks, we decide to give it up then buyer buy it "as is", the transition could start immediately.

Thanks

If you're in a seller's market, there's people paying 5%, 10% over listing price.

Even in an 'as is' type arrangement. How long has the property been on the market? Obviously selling a home now (off season) is kind of different than prime buying season. (spring, summer)

When inventory is low, choices are limited. All this stuff people argue over like building codes, how well or not so well things were done to the home are mostly tossed out the window.

Fear of missing out, not getting something, looking at 20 homes, making multiple offers that got rejected. All kinds of stories out there.

That said, you get too greedy you may jinx it. Holding costs could swallow $2k pretty quick, in nearly any market. (location)

Sounds like a good decision. There is value to convenience. Given that you have a "live one" on the hook, concede, close, move on. Five years from now, you will be happy that you moved forward. Good luck in your new home.

It has nothing to do with it being a sellers' market or a buyers' market, it's a negotiated resolution, which is typical in such cases. The sellers get to wash their hands of the problem and offer money for the fix, the buyer gets to choose what gets done and by whom. Both sides win and get a good answer.

My case was a little special, right before listing it in market, my neighbor learned it, her parents was looking for property in order to live close with her, so, we did it by FSBO. I admit "being a little nice" was a factor on me, and the location is perfect for them. After all, I hope to exchange ~2k loss with quick / possible less-hassle transition.

It has nothing to do with it being a sellers' market or a buyers' market.

Multiple offers versus no offers, no shows, no nothing.. then only one comes along after a lengthy wait. Psychology 101.

I think you missed the context. A signed contract, in escrow, and a relatively small matter comes up from an inspection. That's common. Both the buyer and seller have a choice - dig in and offer no wiggle room or negotiate a compromise.

The post that started this thread expressly stating that a negotiation and meeting in the middle was desired from his part as seller, so as to not let a small niggle blow up the deal in hand. That's why whether the local market conditions are a sellers' or a buyers' market don't matter - that waypoint was passed long before this.

Not necessarily Mr. Fudd. Because as I pointed out there is psychology to it. If there was only 1 offer after a lengthy wait only then... would it make a difference?

Deals in RE fall thru all the time, regardless of the market sentiment / and or what is found or not found to be wrong with said property. We could argue semantics all day long. In your neck of the woods home valuations are much higher than nearly every other market.

So what you know, vs what I know... well? Let's start another argument? Argue for the sake of arguing? It's uncommonly, knowingly well of what you most love to do.

PS: don't quit your day job.

Yeah, it's okay, I think you missed the context.

I quit my day job in my mid-50s. Work is highly overrated - do it well and you can limit how long you need to continue with it.

Do You Have R-22 in Your Old AC System? Here’s What to Do:

https://www.minisplitwarehouse.com/

Faced with the rising costs of R22 air conditioner repairs, the decline of available refrigerant supply, and the increase in price of refrigerant, deciding what to do with your system can be a complicated choice. We’re here to help you make the best, most educated choice for your home.

You have choices:

Recharge

Retrofit

Replace

1. RECHARGE WITH R-22

OUT WITH R-22, IN WITH R-410A

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is responsible for implementing the R-22 refrigerant phase out for the United States. By January 1, 2010, there was a ban on the production and import of R-22. As a result, manufacturers of heat pump and air conditioning equipment redesigned their systems to accommodate R-41 0A, a chlorine-free refrigerant compared to R-22. The refrigerant would soon replace R-22 in the new HVAC equipment.

EPA regulations require a ban on the production and import of R-22 refrigerant by January 1, 2020. After 2020, any air conditioning or heat pump system using R-22 that requires servicing will have to depend on potentially expensive R-22 stockpiles or reclaimed refrigerant. The new ban on R-22 won’t affect homeowners that want to continue to utilize their functioning R-22 air conditioning systems. However, in the event that that equipment needs to be charged with refrigerant, there will be difficulties.

2. RETROFIT

R-421A – REFRIGERANT FOR TOMORROW

• Unique non-ozone depleting, long-term replacement for R22 refrigerant

• Environmentally GREEN refrigerant

• Replace R22 without unit modification

• Does not contain hydrocarbons, such as Butane, lsopentane or lsobutane

• Replaces R22 with no change of oil

• Usable in compressors designed for R22

• Usable with Mineral, AB or POE oils

Only 2-component blend to replace R22

• Non-flammable; Rated A 1 by ASH RAE

• Comparable to R22 performance temperature range

• Usable in a wide variety of applications

3. REPLACE

So, how do you go about making that decision to repair or replace your older R22 air conditioner? How can you tell when a piece of equipment has outlived its useful life? Can you get your older unit to last another couple of years by fixing it? Or will you have to keep throwing money into it, especially as the price of R22 continues to skyrocket?

Newer units are more energy efficient and can lower your electric bill, but can you manage the upfront cost? The unfortunate truth is, there is no cut and dried answer. But you can make the best decision to repair, retrofit or replace your R22 air conditioner when you know what factors to consider about your equipment and its history, and whom to trust for advice.

THE RISK FACTOR

Hanging on to an R22 air conditioner until the bitter end January 1, 2020 is when R22 will no longer be available at any price) does pose some risks, especially for a business that relies on air conditioning. When you finally need to replace, how long will you have to wait for a new system because you’re in line with everyone else who is force to replace their R22 air conditioner?

@Mini-Split Warehouse, Thank you for your information !!

Jim, Mini split warehouse is an on line seller of Mini splits. Not a servicer so the information provided in his post is entirely misleading.

R22 is still widely available. It's is 2021 right now. But he says there will be problems in Jan 2020?

While R22 is more expensive than other refrigerants, this is what your AC system was designed to run. Engineered to run. You aren't going to change that... if you attempt to it will likely lead to catastrophic failure of the compressor due to a wide variety of problems that these so called drop in refrigerants claim to fix.

It's not worth the little bit of savings to wreck your AC system, when even just recharging with virgin R22 has plenty of risks in that regard all it's own. In hotter climates, areas in which summer lasts upwards of 6 months... it is never recommended to reverse engineer an AC system.

Every refrigerant has it's pros as well as it's cons. The so called replacement of the future R410a is in the midst of being phased out. This *may* start occurring by 2023 probably no later than 2024. The likely candidate to replace R410a is R454b. Not that it's a perfect candidate, just better than other choices... of which there are many. There were many choices to retro fit R22 with as well. It's nothing new. If you choose one of these 'spinoffs' I like to call them to service your air conditioner... if there isn't enough adoption of use there is nothing to keep production of that refrigerant going.

Remember Beta vs VHS? While VHS video tape one that battle against beta... you would be hard pressed to find a VHS tape of anything now.

WHY? technology... moves on.

So if you took your time to retrofit over to R410a... there is a time in the not too distant future in which it will all change again... Currently there are complications with R454b it is considered mildly flammable. Somewhat of a problem for something that regularly gets leaks, with an open source flame near by when the furnace runs.

R454 is not a drop in replacement for R410a either from everything I have read about it so far, flow rates are different from that of R410a and systems require less refrigerant. That said until the building code gets adjusted for many areas allowing a mild flammable refrigerant to be used... well it's coming... especially to the extent of who the people voted for to move into the White House.

There is nothing really standing in the way for these changes to hit the fast track. So if your concern is spending more for R22... ha ha. You haven't seen anything yet.

Here's a little spiel about R421a... that was 3 years ago.

So it's not really a good idea, if you ask me. Something is too good to be true... well you know. OR at least you should by now. It's 2021. C'mon man.

Misadventures with R421a refrigerant

If I were selling my house and had a reasonable "as is offer", I would jump on it. It partly depends on the selling price. 5k is a small part of 500k, but a large part of 50k