Nancy, I live in Moore. I have used this plot for 12 years. I haven't ever tilled. I am just wondering if it might be time to turn it over and see if it helps. My plot is only 12' by 50' and probably not worth paying to have it done. I think I do need to buy some bags of compost and get it mixed in. To be honest, I haven't enriched it much all these years, other than buried kitchen scraps.

Nancy, you are in my area! I'm near Indian Hills and Sooner. So...sort of Moore, sort of OKC, and sort of Norman.

I don't till, but a friend I met at the forum tilled up a second large garden at my property. I don't think he's planning on tilling it anytime soon. Maybe he will chime in.

I might get shot at by the no-tillers but I would recommend tilling. Then amending with compost , manure and such and then tilling again to blend it in. Then let the frosts and freezes break the amendments down. And then , if it was me, I would till again before planting anything , onions especially.

The till vs no-till debate has been ongoing for a long time. Personally I couldn't do without a tiller. I've always tilled my ground after every fall cleanup , then amend with cow manure over the winter .Then just before onion and potato planting in mid Feb or so till again. Then plant out the onions and potatoes. Then I till again just before planting anything else to make a good seed bed. I have a large garden space like 90' X 120'. I couldn't imagine being without a tiller . A big front end tiller to break up the ground . And a small Mantis tiller for cultivating in between rows later. I do a lot of row cropping. If I didn't use a tiller I could never keep up with all the weeds and grass through the growing season. Sometimes like during a wet year I can't anyway when it's too wet to till. Then it gets away from me and gets all growed up in knee high grass and head high weeds. Sometimes when it's a little wet but not muddy wet , I till to air the ground out some like during this last too wet spring to keep whatever plantings I have out from getting waterlogged and rottening .This (last) year I had the worst onion year I've ever had. They all rotted.

You no-tillers fire away. I got my fire hose ready for ya.

HU

Welcome to my world:

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Love it HU,

I would till if I had one... no way will I pay someone to be able to garden... Thus, I dig. I dig for sure, where I plant root crops. Lettuce, tomatoes, beans etc. I sow on top of the ground... or hoe a bit before.

I use wood-chips to keep the weeds down, and pull or hoe daily.

During years when I will be gone for the summer, I put more wood-chips down.

I live in OKC, my yard is very clay rich, but is getting better in the previously planted areas because of amendments.

My garden grows year round, as I dig out Bermuda year round.

For me, no digging, would be no tilling at the moment cause my yard is way to wet.

Moni

And then there are people who live in areas like mine. We can't dig OR till here. We are on rock. Only way to garden is to build up! Good luck, Nancy.

I will till my garden probably in the third week of January, depending on if its dry enough to till. Right now , the winter cover is almost knee high. I will chop it down and till it in and build my onion bed.

Nancy I know your pain.... I used to live in Tahlequah. ;)

Grew up in Grove & Ibswear they gree in the garden beds. Now in OKC & I've found 3 rocks in 5 years.

I am lucky, I don't have many rocks. I live in a valley, I expect that the soil washed down from the hills around me. I dont have good soil, it needs lots of amendments, and the soil is shallow, If I were to dig deep enough I would expect to find lots of rocks, there are lots of rock quarries around me.

We've had a mild winter in spite of ice and snow. Over night lows here have not gotten down below 18*. That's kept my cilantro growing but it also means the my winter cover on the garden is still growing. And it will be a bigger job to cut down and till. It takes a sub 15* or even sub 10* night to kill it off but brown dead leaves are easier to deal with.

Nice cover!

Lynn set your mower height high, and mow over once?

Weed eater, chop it down and then till. Best thing would be an over night low of 10*. That would kill the taller plants, which are oats. ( But then I lose my cilantro ;) ) Usually , by this time of year, its died off and laying on the ground decomposing. This year, I might have to rake it out of the garden and mulch it with the mower.

There's also Austrian Pea mixed in there, it will survive all winter. And is terrible about wrapping up on the tynes of the tiller.

Jed Castle's 9 day has freezing temps tonight and that's it .......... for next 9 days.

Got a job in front of me cutting down that winter cover that won't be dead from freeze .

OK, never again am I planting this type of winter cover.

Out in the garden this morning to begin cutting this stuff down with a weed eater. Quickly realized this was not gonna work. Oats grow in a clump. And this was doing nothing but leaving a 6 to 10 " high clump that would be impossible to run a tiller through.

So I started pulling every clump out by hand. I really had no other recourse. Could not till it. Could not mow it. Weed eater did not work. I was just lucky the ground was wet enough to not be muddy, but not dry enough to really clamp on to the plants. They pulled out fairly easily.

I've been planting this winter cover for around 10 years. Never before has it still been alive and growing this time of year. Its always been killed off by a really cold night, like 10* and below.

Every muscle in my body is sore. This was far more labor than I ever envisioned. I'll be living on Tylenol for the next three days. Not gonna take the chance of doing this again.

Now I'm sure, the next sub 10* night will be a couple weeks after I plant my onions, it will get down to 5* and stay below freezing for three days .

Lynn, I feel your pain. I grew Elbon rye for cover corp for years, it never died down. Some years I had to mow it a few times in the winter, some times the deer would keep it eaten down, but always, the clumps were hard to till in. I am experimenting with different greens, like collards, turnips, and radishes. I like Austrian winter peas, but the ones I planted this year were murdered by the deer. They also hit the rye grass very hard. I think the rye grass and peas were hit so hard because the deer liked them better than the greens.

I did get a spot tilled for my onions, I had my young helper till it. I only plan on having a bed 2' x 22', so there was not a lot of tilling to be done because I did not plant a cover crop in that area.

It is too wet here to get any ground ready. I hope to start working on a spot for potatoes soon. I expect to put the small disc on the small tractor to get that ground ready, I am just not able to till much anymore. Attaching the disc to the tractor may be a job for helper to do tomorrow. He likes to come down in the valley to work, and I like for him to come around.

Yep , you can bet your bottom dollar. As soon as you put out your onions , they'll be a polar plunge out of nowhere . Sub 10* or worst. Even in Early/mid Mar. It may not even be forecasted. it's happened to me several times.

It just doesn't do the same every year . It does different every year.

Like i've always said , weather's an a**hole. Always will be.

About winter cover , I've got some Austrian peas to till under before too long , hopefully it won't ball up the tiller too much.

HU

LOL, HU!! I have nightmares about last year. . . running out with frost blankets and even polar fleece blankets to throw over the onions I'd just put in!!! I wish someone had been taking pictures. It's be a hoot sometime in the distant future.

Next time I have to cover up I'll try to get some pics. Talk about redneck.

HU

Today was one of those days, when ya wish ya had a 14 yo son .... or two.

Or a good neighbor.

HU

HU, the variety of Austrian Pea in my mix is viney, it runs along the ground or even climbs up the oat plants. Its not nearly as hard to till as the clumps of oats. But it will get wrapped around the tynes. I don't have a lot of it, but I do have to stop the tiller occasionally to cut it off the tynes. I found a linoleum knife to work best, its got that hook of a blade.

I got my onions through a 6* night one year, by covering with leaves and then watering them down. When the leaves froze, it moderated the temps on the onions. I don't have any leaves this year, don't know what I will do.

And amazingly, I was able to get out of bed this morning. I'm still ambulatory.

Everything I pulled out is now on the lawn. Gonna let it dry out a few days, then run over it with the mower and bag it. Put it back on the garden when I till.

Story from Tulsa TV station on this winter's weather. This pretty much agrees with how I see it, our daytime temps have been average, but nighttime lows above average.

How different is this winter in Oklahoma so far?

Channel 9 is showing arctic air buildup in Canada. and predicting an arctic blast here next weekend.

Figures

I just need some dry days to make mulch and then get the garden tilled.

Ground is pretty dried out in my yard, but inside my garden the soil was wet under that ground cover. It needs a few days of sun.

I always had to, since living here, start tilling early just to let the soil dry enough to plant, if not I would have to walk on a board, the mulch, or something to keep from getting muddy in the process. Living in a low area can have its draw-backs.

They've pushed the arctic blast off till next week, Channel 5's Damon Lane is saying we may break our record for number of days below freezing, that was set in December 1983 ( and I recall that winter, very well ) .

Dixondale is shipping my onions next week haha , I dodged a bullet there. But the garden is already tilled, where was this weather about a month ago ?

I'm sure this will be the end for my cilantro. NWS says 10* next Thursday night. Its had a good run, however. We've enjoyed it all winter.

Reading over this post reminded me that my is still sitting out near the hwy. ( I hope ). I planted 100 onion sets yesterday and forgot to put my tiller up.

I saw bonnie plants for $3.99, I decided to wait.

I had planed to work my potato area today, but it is raining and 43*, I am too much of a wimp to get out in that kind of weather.

Ft. Smith is showing 15 for Sat. night, good chance it will be colder here. I have onions, garlic, turnips, beets, collards mustard, chard, cilantro, radishes, arugula, and blackberries. I am sure some will be hurt or killed.

Nancy, I saved my onions from 6* low a few years ago, by covering them with leaves and then wetting down the leaves. Same could be done with straw or any other mulch.

But that was just one night of very low temps , and as I recall, the temps shot back up the next day. It appears we're going in the deep freeze for several days beginning about Tuesday.

I read at Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, that cilantro is hardy down to 15*. Maybe it won't get as cold as they're forecasting. And of course, the TV stations have never been prone to hype or exaggerate weather ;)

I haven't yet had cilantro perish during winter (but have only had it going for 3 years). The cold hardiness is listed as 10 on a couple sites, as well. I expect why ours do well is that the ones outside the raised beds are heavily mulched with leaves--I think maybe I'll go toss some leaves over the raised bed ones, too. But yes, the sustained cold might be too much for it. I guess we'll find out, huh!

I noticed this in the Southern Exposure Seed Exchange catalog, under winter cover crops ....................

" .......

Hulless Oats

For a winter cover crop, sow in late summer; in cold areas, oats will get winter-killed when temperatures drop below 10°F, and the crop residue is then easy to work under for planting early spring crops like peas and potatoes

...... "

That's my experience with oats, up to this year.

I've decided to use alfalfa pellets for fertilizer this year. So many gardeners on you tube seem to recommend them.

I use them, Nancy--I think Amy has, also. You might find this link helpful. https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/diy-alfalfa-fertilizer-for-higher-yields/

As much work as it was to pull out all those oat clumps, this may be the best year as far as returning it back to the soil. Getting all of it out of the garden, then mulching with my mower, and putting it back resulted in a much finer particles of organic matierial. Which will decompose in the soil faster. I'm really happy with the garden soil right now ( I'll include a pic of my cilantro, which won't be there for long )

If OKC and north, stay home! Its getting bad on the roads! Maybe even to purcell / ada!

I just got out to pick up groceries at WalMart, streets here are just wet, that being south of 89th street.

They say freezing drizzle moving into Norman now.

We've dropped well below freezing at Will Rogers , and I'm not far from there. They say we will be below freezing until Feb 19th .

Its up to 36 here. I tried to till a little, but much too wet, went to check the wildlife garden, of course it was too wet there also, but I had to get out of the house. My mustard tender greens are starting to bolt, few with yellow flowers. I am leaving mustard flowers and a lot of henbit for the pollinators.

That is good Larry. The pollinators need something if they venture out

It seems quite here. Madge and I went to town today and I just had to stop by the Farmers Coop. They had seed potatoes and I bought 25# of potatoes and a few packs of seeds.

The weather is not bad yet, but we do have ice on the handicapped ramp, and ice was blowing off the car when we were driving. From what I see on TV, you guys west of me are having it much worse than I am, but the foul weather may be heading my way.

Stay safe everyone.

I went to the feed store and got 24 bundles of onions of various varities. Just had to get it out of my system. Of course I'll keep them in the house till it warms back up , in late Feb I guess. I've already gotten 100 lb's of seed potatoes and some onion sets ,shallots too. I'm ready for the war. ( Guns cocked).

Just hope it gets this over with now and not come back in March.

HU ( Rick)

Uh, perhaps I planted my onions too soon? We will see just how tough they are! (really not much hope with this Artic Weather.

You can try to cover them. I had to cover mine a couple of times when it got down to around 4*. I just used some old clothes , quilts , blankets , carpet , whatever I had . Then I laid a big sheet of plastic on top of all that and anchored it down with dirt , bricks and such so the wind doesn't get under it. The onions made it ok. Don't know about -15* , but might be worth a try.

If you don't cover them they won't survive this.

HU

Nancy, Dixondale sent this to me the other day. It might help. But with NWS predicting a low of -9 Monday night, I'm not sure anything will work. There will still be plenty of time to replant. I just got my Dixondale order Thursday and I won't be planting for a couple weeks. I doubt planting a week or two later than usual will have any impact on my onion production.

Expecting Freezing Temperatures?

Yes, I do think I have plenty of time in the next few weeks to get some onions in.

I expect my onions and garlic may be in sad shape by next week end.

I think it is going to 20 or less for a high tomorrow, but maybe I could throw some hay on top of the plants, but I expect that the damage is already done. I have not put any plants in the ground for at least a couple of months, so they may come back from the base, I have no bulbing onions in yet. I think I will go out and check them, but it is too late today to do anything.