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maddielee49

What letters do you see?

5 years ago

Posting mostly to settle a discussion within our family (Covid distraction). I know what I think the 3 letters are, but am interested if anyone sees what my husband sees. These are on a very large (28” x 23), heavy silver tray. Thanks.




Comments (92)

  • 5 years ago

    LEC here, too!

    maddielee thanked hounds_x_two
  • 5 years ago

    LEH

    (exactly the style of the engraving on a silver "trophee" platter-a small one though-they didn't let us take out when we were leaving the USSR. I was upset because the letters there were abbreviation of my full name..used to think it's mine))

    maddielee thanked aprilneverends
  • 5 years ago

    LEC

    maddielee thanked rubyclaire
  • 5 years ago

    I'm seeing LEH.

    But If you'll send it to me, I'll examine it more closely. ;)

    maddielee thanked pudgeder
  • 5 years ago

    LEIC

    maddielee thanked gail618
  • 5 years ago

    After another look, maybe it is L E I C ??

    maddielee thanked Arapaho-Rd
  • 5 years ago

    I see LEM

    maddielee thanked olychick
  • PRO
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Nice pics maddielee. Between the feet and the small handles, I would say that's a table piece, like a permeant piece in place and probably a bit of lace or embroidery under it.... or perhaps maaaaybeee a carried in and set in place and not moved, like a tea service. And not a piece meant to be carried around by staff for full service- those wouldn't have feet and the handles would be larger.

    And odd that it has no makers mark, stuff like that usually does. If it's not obvious on the bottom, try checking on the undersides of the handle areas.

    Edit to add: the more I look at the OP, the more I realize the monogram and the platter engraving don't match. Similar styles, but they weren't made to go with each other. The engraving was added to an already made piece. That's not usual at all for pieces going back 6x grandpas time. Although it could have been ordered and not engraved yet and the order cancelled, and then another couple received it.

    maddielee thanked beesneeds
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Here's a text generator

    i used Maratre Script (as a guess, but not correct) and got this. There may be better generators out there.

    LEC


    maddielee thanked Arapaho-Rd
  • PRO
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    That's a nice font- for comparisons... LEC, LEIC, and LEH




    maddielee thanked beesneeds
  • 5 years ago

    LUC

    maddielee thanked rich69b
  • 5 years ago

    Maybe it's one of those things where they did it wrong. You know, like tattoos where the name is misspelled ;)

    maddielee thanked Mrs. S
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    There are also embellishments in each letter, almost like flowers or leaves which the artist could have added as a sort of signature to their work. I’m talking about the little swirls near the top and bottom of each main letter stroke. That is what leads me to believe it is 4 letters not 3.

    So could it be a female’s initials with her maiden name initial included with her married initial?

    maddielee thanked OutsidePlaying
  • 5 years ago

    It seems like an H would normally start with a flourish in the top left of the letter, and this doesn't have that. I would buy LEIC.

    maddielee thanked cawaps
  • 5 years ago

    LEC

    maddielee thanked Oakley
  • 5 years ago

    Cawaps, isn't the H's top left flourish leading off in a roundabout way to start the L? :P

    maddielee thanked Fori
  • 5 years ago

    LEH

    maddielee thanked Ded tired
  • 5 years ago

    Thank you everyone, we may never know for sure.


    I’ve never seen or heard of a 4 letter engraving in the olden days, but who knows?


    We may have to invent a new, interesting relative.

    Maybe Great Aunt Leila Huntington (or Caroline?) Easterly. 😊

  • 5 years ago

    My first impression is LEH.

    maddielee thanked Lars
  • 5 years ago

    It's really an excellent opportunity to create a cool relative!

    maddielee thanked Fori
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Or it could be Laura Elizabeth Irons-Cooper. Or Lester Edwards-Ingram Cooper. LEIC

    I am totally making these names up. There are lots of ways a person could have four initials, which would be written in a row, not in the usual way a 3-letter monogram is done with the last initial in the middle. Edited to correct last initial name. I goofed.

    maddielee thanked OutsidePlaying
  • 5 years ago

    LEH

    maddielee thanked antiquesilver
  • 5 years ago

    That tray appears to be Sterling....if it were plate and as old as you say it would be old Sheffield plate and showing a bit of "rosy glow"....it really must be marked.....look closely at the edges, and also look closely at where the edges met the flat part of the tray.
    Old Sheffield was often unmarked. a platter that large would have cost a pretty penny even 200 years ago....so it may be old Sheffield. In which case there would be an inset of sterling where it is engraved. Huff on it...to cloud it. That should show if there is an inlay of solid silver for the engraving. My gut says it's sterling and there is a mark somewhere that you are not seeing.
    Today's spot for silver is $27 a troy oz....about the weight of a dinner fork. so aside from sentimental value and antique value.....that tray is worth a bit!

    maddielee thanked lindac92
  • 5 years ago

    LEC

    maddielee thanked LynnNM
  • 5 years ago

    LEC

    maddielee thanked kathyg_in_mi
  • 5 years ago

    LEC.

    maddielee thanked artemis_ma
  • 5 years ago

    LEC E is the surname initial.

    maddielee thanked bungalow975
  • 5 years ago

    At first I thought LEH, but I think that LEC is correct. Each letter has one large similar flourish. It wouldn't make sense for the H to have two and the E none.


    maddielee thanked terezosa / terriks
  • 5 years ago

    I have studied calligraphy, and it is my considered opinion that it's LEH. The E has its own flourish, on the curved backs of the upper and lower sections. Flourishes go on the left, and you don't put a heavy flourish off the tail of a letter as you're suggesting, terezosa/terriks. The small dot and tiny line attached to it is the connector between the two risers of the H.

    maddielee thanked colleenoz
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    "That tray appears to be Sterling.."

    Isn't sterling generally lighter in weight than plate? I would think if it is as heavy as described it would rule out sterling.

    Some ways to check:

    https://antiquesilver.org/is-your-antique-silver-solid-or-plated/

    maddielee thanked Olychick
  • 5 years ago

    I’ve done a few “do it yourself” tests to see if it’s sterling or plate.


    So far it is identifying as sterling. Ice starts melting immediately on it, it does not hold a magnet, a spot of bleach makes the area turn black. We’ll get it to a jeweler when we can for further testing.

  • 5 years ago

    I don't think it could get to what appears to be a ripe old age with plating intact on handles and feet. If you've polished it enough to know there's no other metal showing, then it's probably solid. Did you check the feet and handles closely for a mark, maybe with a zoomed in cell phone?

    (I don't think any of those tests validate much of anything. The surface is silver, whether it's plated or solid, so chemical reactions will not be indicative. Silver plated items aren't usually magnetic. Ice melting means it's in a warm room. :P )

    maddielee thanked Fori
  • 5 years ago

    Ice melting is a good sign it's sterling....so is lack of base metal showing.....but seriously....look for a mark.
    As for silver being light weight, not so. Silver is heavier than any metals but gold platinum, mercury, lead...heavier than copper and nickel. heavier than iron and steel>
    As for getting it to a jeweler....be very careful of the "jeweler" you choose. Don't allow any scratch testing. which is the way jeweler would "prove it is sterling".
    Look again for a mark....do you know what British marks may look like? How much of a chance that it is pre-revolutionary? There is a chance it might be unmarked coin silver ( which is 900 parts fine not 925 like sterling)....and there is a chance it could be unmarked sterling.
    Don't allow anyone to scratch or acid test it!!! insist on a specific gravity test.
    If it is sterling or coin it is worth in the neighborhood of $10,000

    maddielee thanked lindac92
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The last letter does not look like "C" to me because it is way too narrow - that would throw the proportions all off. The last letter should be at least as wide as the initial "L." For it to be a "C," it would have to be a very squished "C."

    maddielee thanked Lars
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    If you decide to have it tested, I'd recommend taking it to a silversmith & having a Specific Gravity test performed. This is the accurate & non-invasive method used on important silver (so I'm told) - unlike the chemical tests that are notably unreliable & require a cut into the silver. A museum might be another source of referring someone local to do the test if your jeweler draws a blank.

    A few observations after 30 years of silver collecting (& I love trays!):

    >Really large trays are rarely solid silver - the cost at any time in history would have been exorbitant for everyone except royalty & the uber wealthy. And the larger they are, the heavier the gauge has to be. I don't know about prior but OSP & electroplate seem to have been the norm for trays since those processes were invented, even under the finest sterling tea sets. Every so often, one will come up on ebay for $20-25k so I guess sterling ones are out there.

    >The amount of solid silver that's unmarked for content must be about .001% or less. There's always the 'trial spoon made by an apprentice & stolen instead of re-melted', but holloware? Doubtful. If there's no Standard stamped on it - Sterling, 925, 950, Coin, 800, 84, etc - consider it silverplate & pay accordingly.

    >Finding an Old Sheffeld Plate tray that doesn't have copper bleed through would seem to have about the same percentage as unmarked silver content, IMO, but I'm just guessing because I rarely see any in my area.

    Ordinarily I would agree with Fori about wear showing on plated handles/bottoms of old pieces but I recently bought a tray thats only mark is a punch of 'PAT'D Nov 12 1867' & there's not a hint of base metal showing anywhere, not even on the edges of the flat bottom. It has a medallion motif which was popular for a very short period in the 1860's so I suspect it's from that era. Do I think it's silver? I wish - it weighs about 10 lbs - but I'm not spending the proceeds just yet!

    Yours is a beautiful tray with a striking monogram, MaddieLee. Enjoy!

    maddielee thanked antiquesilver
  • 5 years ago

    Lars, that is a good point. I think I’m changing my vote to LEH.

    what is that thicker almost-horizontal line heading through the top loop of the E? It doesn’t look like it belongs to any letter.

    maddielee thanked Mrs. S
  • 5 years ago

    LEC

    maddielee thanked shadylady2u
  • 5 years ago

    Replying to Antique silver...I have seen enough sterling and coin trays to know they are out there.
    Plate is more likely....especially old sheffield....but then there is that deep engraving that wasn't done on plate without inlaying a piece of solid silver.
    Perhaps laying ice cubes in various spots on the tray might indicate a difference in metal where the engraving i.

    maddielee thanked lindac92
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Mrs. S, that's the top of the L.

    maddielee thanked Fun2BHere
  • PRO
    5 years ago

    I'm Still strongly in the LEH.

    But I'm curious about the LEC folks. I understand seeing LEIC, but if you only see LEC.. what is the vertical strut between the E and C for you?

    maddielee thanked beesneeds
  • PRO
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Perhaps an engeaving error? My vote LEH.

    maddielee thanked mdln
  • 5 years ago

    You can test for specific gravity at home if you think it'd be helpful. Measuring displacement of something that large might take some effort (I would have to start by marking up my sink) but it wouldn't be terribly burdensome.

    maddielee thanked Fori
  • 5 years ago

    Thank you again.

    I flipped it over this afternoon, still could find no marks. ( my husband swears he sees ‘revere’. Such a joker.)

    The bottom of the tray does not shine up like the top. The bottom remains dullish after using some Wright’s Silver paste on it. While looking at the bottom, you can see a slight protrusion (?) where the engraving was done on the top around the letters. No protrusion where the letters are.

    The person we always believed it belonged to was born in 1734.

    A magnet doesn’t stick to any part of it. Ice melts quickly on all area of the tray.



  • 5 years ago

    Your husband may be correct. Sometimes the way light reflects and absorbs on an object can change when held at certain angles. Just a suggestion but place on a table upside down then move your head so it is at various angles to the tray. The reason to place on a table is that even though we think we are holding an object steady our hands and arms especially with heavy objects tend to tremble.


    You could ask him exactly where he thought he saw it and very carefully put something like cornstarch or artist charcoal on the area then lightly fan to remove the powder.

    maddielee thanked maifleur03
  • 5 years ago

    ^^^thanks. He was kidding. There are no marks.

  • 5 years ago

    Regarding the protrusion on the back, is there a hint of the design in reverse?

    maddielee thanked antiquesilver
  • 5 years ago

    ^^^yes. Light. Just a hint.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The floral design is probably not hand engraved; more likely done by stamping/machine embossing which became popular during the industrial revolution. Before that, hand made & decorated was the norm although there were machines used for machine turning/engraving but I don't believe it left an impression on the backside of an article.

    maddielee thanked antiquesilver
  • 5 years ago

    AAH......the bottom of the tray is not silver...it's old Sheffield plate and the bottom is likely tin or a tin alloy! That decoration along the edge may be solid....and hides the edges where the fact that it was copper and silver rolled together. And most likely there is an inset for the engraving. The tray was probably made with a scrolled "cartouche" for a monogram and the monogram applied later.....and a solid piece inlaid to be engraved.
    https://thefarmantiques.com/differentiate-silver-old-sheffield-plate-silverplate/

    maddielee thanked lindac92
  • 5 years ago

    I see LEIC or SEIC

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