I'm hoping when you said "drywall" you meant cement board. Unless he's installing Schluter Kerdi, it has to be cement board and even then cement board is an excellent idea. If he is using drywall without Kerdi, you must fire him immediately.

Forty bucks an hour is way too cheap for a legitimate contractor these days. I was at $90.00 with a 3-hour minimum, drive and administrative time included plus material, four years ago when I was still doing repairs full time.

Cement buard yes, thank you.

But is everything else he's doing sounding right? I dont see why he has to do the entire bathroom floor before he can do the shower. I'm more concerned with being able to bathe in my own house than getting the bathroom floor done.

I used to reno century old homes, rent and re-sell till I showed a new homebuilder a few of them. He couldn't believe what I had to deal with. Since then, new only! And I never pay anyone but general labourers or a trade I know well by the hour.

btw, setting large format tiles is more not less work!

"btw, setting large format tiles is more not less work!"

And the prep work much more intense as well as the tolerances are much tighter.

ty for all the answers. this guy is pretty seasoned, like 50yrs in the business seasoned, so idlk if what he was saying was legit or if he just saw a young kid like me and telling me nonsense--because thats usually what happens to me. and ill have to remember in the future that bigger tiles =/= less work, hearing it explained this way makes a lot more sense. ty all

And what I didn't get to comment on: The AVERAGE cost of a Bathroom renovation (from the studs) is $30K.

That average is an average of hundreds of thousands of bathrooms. It includes the $8K refresh (new paint, new floor tiles, new vanity) to the $120K Grande Master Bathroom = two of everything.

I'm very concerned about how LOW the labour costs are. If you are worried about $2K for labour being too high then you are going to faint when we tell how much is *SHOULD cost.

A bathroom uses expensive products and expensive labour. The labour costs SHOULD DOUBLE your material costs. If you spent $5K on materials you should be spending $5K on labour (or more). And materials means 'cement board', tiles, sinks, toilets, cabinets, counter tops, mirrors, lights, paint, more plywood, MOISTURE BARRIER products, etc.

If you are NOT paying 2-3 TIMES more for labour than you have for the materials...you really should ask your contractor (he's not just setting tile; he's BUILDING you a bathroom) how much he should have charged knowing what he knows now. Because I have a feeling this reno is going UP in price...more than you anticipate.

My one consolation = you have found someone who know's what they are doing and is willing to put his foot down when the homeowner chooses inappropriate products.

What is your TOTAL budget for this project??? When all the bills are paid and you can use a beautiful new bathroom once again without owing anyone anything?

Where are you located (roughly)?

YOU don’t even know what the correct process is, so Im not sure how you can criticize what he is doing. I’m thinking you are the problem. And I’ve never seen anyone be able to install laminate floors without molding.

@SJ McCarthy

We hired this guy solely for tiling since me nor my partner are particularly versed in it. We know the step by step process roughly but not enough to do it ourselves comfortably. If it was just a bathtub install we could do it ourselves but we opted to just have a new standing shower instead. My partner is a plumber and im doing the counters/cabinets, lighting, and paint. We literally just needed this guy to lay the tile. I'll poke my head in every now and again to check on him(if he's hungry or wants water) and it looks like he's laying about 2 12x24 tiles per hour. Everything's looking really great so far but its deff slow going. Idk if this is normal pace or not, I know now thst big tiles take more care, but after checking the post again ive been told thst this guy is either a super pro or a total clueless baboon so idk anymore

Post more photos. The BUILD of the shower is one thing. The WATER PROOFING is the SINGLE IDENTIFYING MARKER as to whether or not he's a hack or not. His AGE may be slowing him down. As you say earlier on he is WELL SEASONED ("like 50yrs in the business seasoned"). That would make him (roughly) 65 - 75 years old. I'm 49 and I would be SLOW simply because of age. There's a reason tilers and stone masons 'age out' of the building industry earlier than others...their knees are beyond help by the age of 50!

Please please please take more pics and load them onto the site. We are desperate to see 'in-progress' photos. That means we want to see a few tiles installed with everything else being raw and exposed.

@SJ McCarthy

Heres the most recent photo, taken 10 seconds ago. He comes at around 9am and leaves around 3pm, and has bene here since last Wednesday, taking Sunday off. He did the cement board, sub floor, curb, and any tile you see. He said the walls were pretty uneven, which is making laying the tiles difficult, which I can believe since the last homeowner treated this place pretty poorly.

So far Im really happy with the work, it's just slow going is all and I feel bad that I cant help the guy since my skillset isn't in tiling or anything plumbing related. All I was able to assist with was carrying some heavy bags for him

@SJ McCarthy we deff learned our lesson in what materials to pick when it comes to tiling. we've done laminate floors and stuff ourselves but never tile and we thought we were doing a favor by selecting bigger tiles(OOPS). but for the shower floor we did pick out some hexagon tile sheets so laying that should be pretty easy--according to the tile guy.

@suedonim75 if you focused on the moulding then you clearly missed the part where he put LAMINATE FLOORING over a GIANT HOLE IN THE FLOOR. we hired him to fix the hole, and he literally just put the materials over it and we found out when my bf nearly put his foot through the floor. we said not to do the moulding because we can do that ourselves, my bf wanted to hire a separate floor guy because he didnt feel comfortable patching the hole himself.

I see raw cement board on the back wall in the shower and that's a potential uh oh. What did he do for waterproofing?

@millworkman im not sure actually. he said hes using mud to layer on the wall before putting the tiles on because the walls are slightly curved due to the misaligned studs underneath. im only able to see updates when i get home from work so what hes doing step by step im not certian. we put the showerpan and stuff down ourselves for the floor but as far as the walls go thats all him

UPDATE: he's now removing the tile off the floor that he did yesterday. bf went home real quick and he heard hammering so he peeked and sees the guy removing the tile off the floor he did on saturday. hes chipping off the old mortar and stuff, and removing the tiles. no clue whats going on. he said hes a perfectionist so i guess hes REALLY a perfectionist

" he said he's using mud to layer on the wall before putting the tiles on"

There is NO WATERPROOFING visible. I don't give a s**t about the mud as neither that not cement board are waterproof. Ask if there is something in the of poly behind the cement board. If not then your shower has zero waterproofing.

....there's NO WATER PROOFING visible! This is a DO OVER! And what did you DO to get the shower floor SLOPED AND WATER TESTED??????

I'm getting very very concerned. This is a turning into a $h!t show...'scues my french. The water proofing is a COLOURED product. It is often a RED ROLL ON product.

And PLEASE detail YOUR WORK on the shower floor....what was your SLOPE calculated to be...and how did you achieve it?

To be clear: as SOON as the homeowner 'helps' a contractor (like you have) the HOMEOWNER owns any/all problems that come up later. Why? Because there is no way a JUDGE can determine WHO did it wrong and WHO'S WORK caused the issue.

Please stop this work and get someone else in to look at the WATER PROOFING!!! We "think" there isn't any...which means the walls will WEEP water into parts of your house that you never thought existed.

Grout is NOT water proof. Thinset is NOT water proof. Mortar is NOT water proof. Cement backer board is NOT water proof. Water proofing MUST BE ADDED.

Those are you TWO RED FLAGS.

Hey guys pass the popcorn!

UPDATE: he's now removing the tile off the floor that he did yesterday.

Which floor tile, field or shower (you said you have hex tile for the shower)? How much is he removing? Who's paying for the extra tile, and can you get more?

He said the walls were pretty uneven, which is making laying the tiles difficult, which I can believe since the last homeowner treated this place pretty poorly.

Nothing to do with care, it's the nature of the game in an old house. You said he installed the cement board, walls only? Who prepped the subfloor? Walls and floors have to be shimmed plumb and level first (and the shower floor sloped to drain). You do not use tile to fix slopes.

Is the shower valve and head on an exterior wall, and if so, are you in a freeze/thaw climate?

@SJ McCarthy im not home the majority of him working. when i came home one of the first few days he'd poured the shower floor a and sloped it himself. i havent laid tile myself but whenever i watched videos of it being done i'd always see a green goo or something liek that get put over the walls before the tile--i just figured he'd done that while i was gone during the work day and then laid the mud and tile over it.

im now legit worried about the water proofing. i dont feel like i should have to watch a veteran tiler do his job to know if he's doing it right, especially as slow as he's going.

@3onthetree the cement board and sub floor were all done by him. the work my partner did was ripping out the old and he put down a shower pan, hes a plumber himself by trade, and fixed the bad pipes. the floor tiles the guy removed were the floor tiles in the rest of the bathroom not in the shower. he had laid about 7-8 down one day, and then the following day ripped half of them back up. he hasn't laid any floor tiles in the shower yet, says thats one of the last things he'll do. he said the walls themselves are bellied, like curved in, so he had trouble laying the wall tiles.

we're also located in florida, unless hell literally freezes over here i've never had a frozen pipe.

@millworkman all i cna think of at this point is if he put something behind the cement board, but that wouldn't make any sense because the cement board iself isn't rated for water, or if he put the water proofing down and them put the mud and tile over it and i just didnt see that step. i can only see what he's completed when i come home from work. unfortunately me and my partner both work all day and we cant really get a step by step view as he's doing it, only seeing what he finished at the end of the day

You need to figure out exactly what steps he has taken and will continue to take for this project or you will run the risk of a pile of moldy wood and a shower floor that does not drain properly. Period.

The way to figure out what he has done is to ask him.

@millworkman talking to my partner now and asked about the bathroom so far and he saids the cement board is hardiboard and is waterproof on its own. i dont work in bathrooms at all, so anything bathroom or wet-related i defer to him. im starting to question my own partner at this point or maybe im just paranoid

@cpartist i never see the guy in person, and my partner is the one with the contact info. since i dont work in bathrooms myself and my partne ris the plumber between us, he's been doing most of the communication. the only thing i cna go off of is what is see and hear from my partner because no one likes a woman questioning their work lest i wanna earn the coveted Karen title

Can you clarify WHO said, "...talking to my partner now and asked about the bathroom so far and he saids the cement board is hardiboard and is waterproof on its own."

Sorry but your language is difficult here. Is it your PARTNER who says 'hardiboard is waterproof' or is it the TILE contractor who says 'hardiboard' is water proof????

Whomsoever said it is --sorry if this is your partner--an IDIOT! Cement board IS Hardi Backer Board. That is true. But what is INCORRECT is the board (regardless of NAME) is NOT WATER PROOF!!!!!

Stop the work and get someone else to deal with this. If your partner is the one who put up the cement board then your PARTNER is the one who MUST PAY for the WATER DAMAGE that occurs the SECOND you turn on your shower.

Don't let this go any further. Either your partner is ILL INFORMED or your tiler is. Either way you have a big mess on your hands. Stop the work. PERIOD.

"im starting to question my own partner at this point "

As well you should as I stated you have zero waterproofing. Hardibacker (nor any cement type backer board) is not waterproof on its own.

@millworkman @SJ McCarthy thank you both, im glad i wasnt paranoid for no reason usually when i say im not sure if something is a good idea ijust get dismissed. ill do what i can to get this stopped before it goes further

@SJ McCarthy UPDATE so i contacted hte tile guy myself and expressed my concerns, and he said he used Hydroban over the hardiboard before applying any mud--which would explain why i didnt see any water proofing i suppose? since it would have been done while i was at work, ans when i cmoe home any waterproofing would of been coverd and tiled by then. does this sound right or did i just get bamboozled again

"does this sound right or did i just get bamboozled again"

B.S. Hydroban is Green and there is no Green on that Hardibacker in this picture.

I feel like this thread may be a troll? No one can be this obtuse and unsophisticated (while at the same time adamant and stubborn). Troll?

He is on a fishing expedition, grasping at straws and you keep biting.....................

I thought hydroban liquid was green; maybe I'm wrong. But if it's green, wouldn't we be able to see it "painted" onto the boards in your picture?

@millworkman i assumed he was putting it on as he goes, not coating it all at once, again im not there standing on the counter watching him like a hawk. dont really appreciate being called stupid but thanks for your input.

@AJCN ive known it to be a bright green, but some people on this thread are saying its red, so aside from color, thinking in good faith, he was putting it on as he goes, as opposed to coating the entire area first. because that was my same though, if he put on a coat why cant i see it. i do shelving and painting mostly, so i dont have any background in tile work or bathrooms

@H202 not everyone is a professional contractor capable of remodeling their entire house single handedly. i dont do tiling or bathrooms so why would i know anything about water proofing or tiling, or shower plumbing. calling someone unsophisticated because they dont know a specific profession is both insulting and unhelpful. When someone brings up a point on this thread i answer and do what i can to give more information to find a helpful answer. im not arguing or disagreeing with what they're saying, only clarifying information they asked for clarification on and trying to get more information any way i can to get more advise on the issue

Red Guard is red. It's also a liquid.

Sounds like more BS. You have to let it dry between coats. It wouldn't make any sense to do it as you go; at least I've never seen my tile pro do it that way. If this is what he's claiming, where's the bucket? Is it there? I can read the bucket I see in the picture.

Redguard (red color) and Hydroban (green in color) are essentially the same thing by different manufacturers and goes on all at once in advance so it will have time to dry. He is throwing BS at you to get you to leave him alone.

@AJCN at this point this is all the info i can get. when i come home for the day everything is gone from the bathroom so at this point i just have to assume the worst and that he didnt put a moisture barrier and he's spent 5 days wasting my time and money.

@millworkman he literally has the house entierly to himself all day every day to do the job, its upsetting to know someone who's been doing this for 50 years wouldnt do the basics. i guess i gotta find someone to redo this whole job

Document all the chances that you have given him to fix things (by email), and then fire him. Ask for all your money back and don't let him back in your house. If you gave him a key, take it back and consider changing your locks. If he leaves stuff/materials in your house, put them out by the curb and tell him he has 24 hours to pick everything up before it goes in the trash. Save all your emails/texts and take lots more pictures (peel back the layers and take pictures as you re-demo), so that you have something to show the judge if he sues you or you sue him. Get his home and/or business address so you can serve papers if you later choose to do so. Take pictures of his truck and license plate to ease location later if needed. Consider a hard counseling of your bf to not hire any more workers. Go here to find a real tile pro:

www.tile-assn.com

www.ceramictilefoundation.org

Ceramic tile site has good info on how to hire a better pro

Buy a downloadable version of this to read and learn about tile selection, waterproofing methods and materials. You only have to read the introduction and the shower chapters.

www.tcna.com/products-and-services/publications.html

You keep saying you don't know anything about bathrooms, but if you read about tile and waterproofing, you will learn enough to be able to hire a better pro next time. Don't look at YouTube videos bc you will go down a rabbit hole of misinformation. There's 1 exception which is Sal Diblasi. I learned quite a bit by looking at his site, but I stopped there bc I know there are so many wrongly done things on YouTube.

"to know someone who's been doing this for 50 years wouldn't do the basics"

50 years incorrect is still incorrect, unfortunately. Hopefully you still owe him enough money to get his attention and at the very least have him demo all that he has done.

"i guess i gotta find someone to redo this whole job"

Yes, you do. Consider yourself lucky that at least you did not let him get further.

And correct today is different than correct 50 years ago. Hydroban et al are relatively modern inventions.

Paint-as-you-go waterproofing would be asininely inefficient.

Mz A, this is how proper waterproofing looks. No way to "hide" it:

You paint on the waterproof membrane to a specified thickness over the whole surface. Then the next day you come back and start tiling. No way he would waterproof and tile the same day, especially with his limited hours.

Yeah, he's lying to you. And you're getting bamboozled. Good thing you're finding out now, instead of after you use the shower for a year and have mold.

That said, you can also waterproof by putting a sheet of plastic behind the cement board instead of the paint-on membrane. But he didn't claim to have done that, he claimed he painted something on that he clearly didn't.