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robert_obe727

NEC 2017 electrical question

5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago

I was wondering if anyone would be able to answer if in a new construction build whether or not a 20 amp circuit is required in a kitchen for both the refrigerator and microwave? if so, what code section specifies this? the builder is trying to say 15 amp is plenty and is to code but others say it should be 20. I am getting another inspectors opinion next week.

thanks, just trying to be prepared


also curious on how many professional electricians use the push in connectors in the back of a receptacle? all the ones I have spoke to say they would never use them as they aren’t the best for contact and could go bad. And yet, all the outlets and switches they did the push in method and didn’t tighten down the screw terminals. The builder says his electrician is very good.

Comments (15)

  • 5 years ago

    What do your appliance manuals say?

  • 5 years ago

    @cpartist The microwave is 1300 watts and the fridge is says 730 kilowatts hours per year. The circuit would be setup on a 2 pole 15 amp circuit with 14/3 wire.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Most appliances are fine with 15 amps. As the new ones are more efficient, they tend to have less power draw.

    I think the code just speaks to isolated circuits but most do 20 amp. Perhaps it was required in the past but now isn't? While that seems strange, the draws have decreased over time. I think my fridge draws like 2-3 amps so 20 amps does seem a little overkill. My other guess is that code speaks to some things requiring 20 but not most. I just checked and my dishwasher and disposal are both on 15 and everything else is 20. Including the microwave.

    I find most electricians prefer the screw terminals, and most use the push on. Call it lazy or efficient.

    I had some issues with going behind a DIY person on the push-in connectors. But that person used improper technique for wire stripping which is against code and would usually be caught by inspectors.

    Maybe something not worth micromanaging? If it fails, they have to fix.

  • 5 years ago

    Sounds good. We don’t have a lot of say with the house but there has been many things already that the city inspector has caught not to code that the builder is being forced to fix and it’s just making me a bit paranoid. My whole family and I are in the trades but no electricians. So they’ve been a lot of help with making sure things are moving forward properly. If I’m paying for pretty penny for a house, it better be done properly and not just cheaply.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Our state adopts its own version of the International Residential Code (IRC) as the uniform statewide building code. I believe the IRC incorporates relevant portions of the NEC.


    For kitchens, the 2018 IRC requires a minimum of (2) 20 amp branch circuits for receptacles in countertop areas and a minimum of (2) 20 amp branch circuits for wall and floor receptacles serving Kitchen, Panty, Breakfast Nook and Dining areas. Your code requirements may differ.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The push in spring connectors are crap but they are obviously allowed and have passed some kind of quality control. A lot of electricians use them just because they are quick. Good electricians who care about their work and aren't just rushing through a job will use the screws.

    They probably won't fail anytime soon which is why they do that. It'll be years down the road before they start loosening up and arcing and failing.

    Granted, it isn't like all of them are going to fail. It'll just be the odd one. And maybe not even any in your particular house. But when arcing and loose connections happen, it's normally at these connections.

    That said, it isn't something that you can request your builder to change without paying for it.

    If it were my house, I'd probably slowly change them myself after moving in.

  • 5 years ago

    I personally hate backstabbed receptacles. I don't know any electricians that do this. If I came into my build and saw them doing it, I would likely ask for a redo. It is just lazy for sure.

  • 5 years ago

    The code permits you to run dedicated circuits for these things, but it is NOT required unless the manufacturer's information allows it. You can have as many 20A small appliance circuits as you like and the fridge actually can go on a 15A circuit by exception to the rules.


    No professional likes backstabs (i.e., the ones that you just stick the wire in and go on, as opposed to anything where you actually have to apply screw torque to things). However, they are not against code as long as the receptacles meet UL (or other approved) listing.


    The IRC is INDEPENDENT of the NEC. The IRC is the general building code. However, most states at a statewide level incorporate the NEC (possibly with some modification). Here's a handy map:

    https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-maps


  • 5 years ago

    Thank you all for the response and knowledge. It’s just with all the issues I’m losing trust with the builder and the city inspector also doesn’t feel very confident.

    the issue arose bc they had 14/3 wire running to the appliances from a 2 pole 20amp breaker. And I fought with the builder that you need at least #12 wire for that breaker but he said they need to be a 20amp and it would be fine and he trusts his electrician. But now they just want to switch the breaker for a 15amp one. It would be easy to run 12/3 wire as the basement is open and you can see the run which is only about 30 ft. We are haveing another independent inspector come out.

  • 5 years ago

    how many professional electricians use the push in connectors in the back of a receptacle?

    Be cognizant of what type of receptacle you have. There are "backstab," "back-wire," and "side-wire."

    Backstab is a hole on back of the device nearby the side screw but not related, you insert the wire and an internal spring clip holds it in. You are limited to 14ga wire, which means a 20amp circuit (min 12ga) wouldn't be backstabbed. This method has the failure rate and shouldn't be used.

    Backwire has clips on the side of the device where you insert the wire under it and tighten the screw to hold the wire. This allows 2 separate wires under the same screw and GFCIs have this method. You will probably see the plastic have indentations to allow the wire to sit flush, or the clip is shaped to form to the wires. Some clips though are just "arched" to allow either backwire or sidewire.

    Sidewire is when you wrap the wire around the screw then tighten it.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Yeah they did the backstab option on all the #14 wire receptacles that I saw. I was always told not to trust them. I do drywall/finishing/painting and an electrician on a job one time was nice enough to to teach about wiring since the job took a good 2 months, and enough for me to upgrade my fuse box to breakers in my last house myself.

  • 5 years ago

    When my house was built in 2015, all circuits were 12Ga, with 20A (or more) breakers so backstab devices wouldn't be possible. I have other complaints about the builder, but that's not one of them.

  • 5 years ago

    I prefer back wire and electrical tape around the screws. Side wire is also fine, but is a little more work and the wire can theoretically slip out while tightening; with back wire I find that is less of a risk.

    Back stab would be fine, if it used the same technology that Wago connectors use. Their springs are crazy strong and are supposed to self-fasten, if the wire ever had force applied to it. But this requires a more complicated design and there needs to be a lever somewhere to release the wire. Unfortunately, the cheap backstab receptacles don't ever do this. So, yeah, I am in agreement with everybody else; don't use this feature.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The Electrical Chapters of the 2015 IRC (ch. 34 thru 43) are produced and copyrighted by the NFPA and based on the 2014 NEC (NFPA70). I assume the 2018 IRC Electrical Chapters are based on the 2017 NEC.

    The primary differences are due to the IRC focusing on what is commonly used for 1 and 2 family and townhouse construction.

    In the first electrical section, E3401.1, the 2025 IRC says "Other wiring methods, materials and subject matter covered in NFPA 70 are also allowed by this code."

    I've never worked in a state where the IRC was not amended to delete the electrical chapters and substitute the entire NEC (NFPA70).

  • 5 years ago

    Side wire is also fine, but is a little more work and the wire can theoretically slip out while tightening

    If you wrap it the correct way (clockwise) then as you tighten the screw, it actually pulls the wire tighter into the screw,.


    ...and electrical tape around the screws

    Don't wrap electrical tape around the receptacles. That just makes a sticky mess for the next person who has to work on the outlet. If you fold the wires correctly back into the box and mount the receptacle properly in the box, there is nothing that should come close to touching the screws, so the tape is pointless.