Jan loved your information it was nice to read your detailed examples. My two cents; I understand where we were economically as a country and where we are now, but disagree this is the fault of the average person and more an issue caused by really bad policies. I read through many examples of how things lasted longer before and were better quality and yes bad policies contributed to this too, However, the one element I did not read was how decisions by manufacturers to degrade quality to increase sales. If a refrigerator or car last 20 years it is difficult to increase sales to satisfy the shareholders. Volvo made a tank of a car that was easy to repair and last forever there is a great read about how the company changed what they produced to increase sales. Furniture, appliances and clothing cheaper increased sales for the discount retailers and with wages that have not kept up for most of America it was inevitable.

Another piece of this is the heavy marketing that leads the uninformed to want what is reachable and looks pretty. I am fortunate and have a lovely home I purchased each piece of furniture specific for this home except for my baby grand that we moved, and yet I can be on houzz seeing a beautiful room and thinking maybe I need a new or a different fill in the blank.

Jan thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom with everyone

WITTINGLY, OR UNWITTINGLY....... The customer usually wins. The laws of supply and demand do not change. Flood a marketplace with goods and services, and the price descends. Starve it and the price goes up. The good news in this country? Someone always finds a way to meet the demand for the consumption of nearly anything and at every price.. There always were cars you could drive for ten years, as long as you didn't mind a rust bucket. You hardly EVER see rust any more even in the brutal Northeast. Do you know anyone without a fridge? Probably not as a basic can set you back as little as 499.00 or into the stratosphere of integrated Sub Zero. The United States is a democracy of goods and services - a fifty dollar bath towel, or dry your tush for as little as 2.99. Drive a BMW, or a Ford . It will never be a perfect world and policy arguments have raged for decades.

Bill Clinton gets credit for a boom economy largely fueled by .com explosion and world peace. It took Ronald Reagan to drag a country up and out of the Carter near depression .

We've a new POTUS, and a new debate. Without unleashing the wrath of hell upon me? I can't touch it. Just know your gas price has already risen, and its not summer travel pushing it. Your kids and grand kids could end in debt for eons. There is no "free" and no free lunch on anything, Price and quality and longevity have their relationships. For good and for bad.

The point was, and is, what you get for what you pay, and you must ADJUST what you want for what you want to pay. If I ruled the world? ..................don't I wish. : )

I'm not touching it either. I don't want a free lunch.

Something else....people want a "deal". In the 60's, sales were, oh maybe twice a year. Now, everything is on sale all of the time. Result? Nothing is ever on sale. But, there is a perception that it is.

Kohl's: a $10 value item is marked $100. 50% off. Down to $50. The excitement is building. Kohl's weekend sale and an additional 20% off the $50. Down to $40. Arrive at counter and discover $10 of Kohl's cash. Down to $30.

DIng, ding, ding! Wow! I got a $100 item for $30! Nope. You got a $10 for for $30 and you will circle back on your birthday, using the birthday discount and the additional Kohl's cash the cashier just handed to you.

Nothing against Kohls. I actually think they are marketing geniuses. I do shop there on occasion.

Then there are the rewards programs. They are a pain and we pay for them. Don't join and you feel like you are being taken. Join and feel guilty about all the points you haven't used.

JC Penney tried going "no sale, no discounts, just low prices" a few years ago. We know what happened to them.

I bought my first leather sofa and loveseat for $1200 in 1999 in NC at a store that sold furniture market samples. I replaced those pieces 5 years ago because the springs were shot. The leather was in excellent shape. Everyone I knew who had bought “leather” from chain furniture stores had seen that “leather” peel and flake off in 5 years or less. So, since my budget was $4,000 I refused to spend that on crap “leather“ so I bought two cloth upholstered pieces. Springs are fine, but the foam in the back cushions is sagging, and since they are attached, there is nothing to be done about it. I made the mistake of buying cream for a family room, and while stains have released easily, dinginess stays. I am shopping for a replacement for something I hoped would last as long as my first set. My takeawat—my buying power for quality made furniture has dramatically decreased. Maybe if I was willing to spend 10k I could get something to last, but why take that chance???

I effing hate the loyalty cards. every store wants you to sign up, and they actually do inflate the prices for those who don't. it's total BS. I at least give them a fake phone number for that.

RE: cheap furniture: it's a straight up addiction for me. I'm an environmentalist and try to make conscious choices when it comes to clothes, food, driving, home energy, etc. But decorating/home improvement is my passion hobby, and it's really hard for me to always make the ethical choice when it comes to that. Being a graphic designer makes me OCD about how things fit, look and function (doesn't matter if it's a print project or my living room, I'm constantly looking around and designing everything in my head). plus I found that even more expensive ("good") furniture doesn't always tick all those boxes. especially when it comes to things that need to fit a very specific size. I'm relatively good at hacking and repairing furniture too. so I've been tempted many times by wayfair and -- no surprise -- hated the quality. some of these pieces I fixed and will live with until I find something better. at least there's the Buy Nothing group when I'm done with these things (people will take the kind of things that goodwill won't). I shudder to think how much of this garbage furniture winds up in the landfill. especially items that could have at least been repaired and used for a few more years. unfortunately I'm contributing to that problem in part.

I'm the opposite, I Love Mod. I really don't like or want to constantly be on the lookout for furniture or any home decor items. I want to research it thoroughly and buy it once and be done with it. I have too many other things I want to do with my time. When I buy something, I want it to last for a very long time. My bedroom furniture was bought in 1983 when we got married. We paid about $3,000 for a queen four-poster bed, triple dresser, tall chest, lingerie chest, mirror and night stand. Solid cherry, made in America by Henkel Harris, which is one of the few companies left. It still looks and functions beautifully. Dove-tailed drawers and the inside of the drawers is as smooth as the outside. Is it still "in style"? No. Would I buy it today if I were 25? Probably not. But there's no way I'm changing it now, it's classic 18th Century reproductions. Possibly I'll change the wallpaper, the bedding, the curtains and the rug. But the furniture stays.

Diana, the thing is I do research about as thoroughly as I can for a non-pro. Perhaps it's possible that you -- as a pro -- get access to inventory that might not come up in my searches, and also have knowledge that I don't.

Also: décor (and DIY / home improvement) is my passion hobby so I genuinely do enjoy putting in the time and work.

When I'm searching, I'm not just looking for durability and style. I'm also looking for specific size, comfort level, function, etc. It often eliminates my choices down to nearly zero. Increasing my budget and doing a lot of research doesn't always mean I'm going to find the right thing. I bought what I thought was a really solid "forever" bed at Room & Board. I paid a lot for it because I thought the steel slats were going to be the very best. After two nights, I learned that when it comes to king size, those slats sag. Stupid design flaw -- we are not big people. The display bed in the showroom didn't show that problem because it was narrower. I returned it, bought a solid wood frame platform bed from West Elm that was about 1/3 of the price, and because of the money I saved, was willing to install heavy custom boards I had cut at a lumber store. Now it's literally the most perfect bed.

Rinse and repeat with so many of my furniture purchases. I'm too picky, it's a curse!

I am just a housewife who hates to spend $$$ on cheaply made stuff like Restoration Hardware stuff and who can’t afford real true designer stuff. What I do is find a nice, well made, used Baker, Henredon, Hickory-White, or even higher end pieces on Facebook MarketPlace, ebay, EBTH, or some such reseller or estate auction, and then find fine imported or designer mill ends of upholstery fabric on sale or on ebay. (I am even still using my recovered Henredon sofas from 1984.).

Now for the family room, I even have mostly off white fabrics from Crypton and Sunbrella which wear like crazy and need no plastic slip cover, lol. These are all from e-bay. I do have an upholsterer who is a talented dear, who is willing to use down or whatever to suit my comfort and budget, and who charges reasonably. It took some doing, but I found him after some careful sleuthing and searching many years ago. Obviously I am not a designer’s dream client, but my budget is intact and I have beautiful spaces, if I do say so myself. 😊

That said, i can certainly understand the young peoples’ penchant for wanting nice things right now for not many $$. Of course, so many only stay in an apartment or home for a few months or years, and since moving is expensive, they have to leave stuff behind. My daughters are the worst offenders, but they never listen to me!

Most of my stuff are things that I got from someone or bought at a sale and "fixed it up". There are probably only 5 things in my house we bought brand new. (I don't buy upholstered items second hand because it skeeves me out). Paint can really transform things.

You are right - the laws of supply and demand do not change but the supply curves and the demand curves are inherently associated with the consumers ability to pay.

Where do you believe the supply and demand curves would intersect for a Baker sofa in an economy where the masses are living is abject poverty where there is severe deprivation of basic human needs. (They don't have food, shelter and clean drinking water).

So as the buying power of the middle class shrinks the demand for high priced goods are reduced. The price of a sofa has to go down in order to intersect with the ability of the consumer to pay. To meet that demand the manufacturer can either reduce profits or reduce the cost of manufacturing the sofa.

We still have some demand for a $22,000 sofa in this country, but the number of people who can afford such a luxury is going to be limited not to the top 1%, but to the top .1% or top .01%. One in 10,000 households can afford this luxury, where in the 1970s one in every 100 households could afford this level of luxury.

The buying power of the middle class has been drastically reduced. We still need sofas, but the manufacturers can't supply high quality sofas for a price that the masses can afford, so they sell us junk and we buy junk because it is the best that many can do.

I wish that the choices I saw when working with people were choices between buying a morning coffee and buying a sofa instead of choosing not to go the doctor or how to ration their prescription medicines or deciding between raising their kids as latch key kids and being able to put food on the table or paying for daycare.

I have been lucky. I was able to work in an industry that I loved and when the economy started to fail I was able to change industries and still make a decent salary. Many of the people who I worked with weren't able to transfer their skills to another industry and they fell out of the middle class and into poverty.

As long as it isn't happening to you it is easy to turn a blind eye, but the number of middle class Americans who are having to make choices that were unimaginable a couple of decades ago keeps growing.

If workers continue to get raises that are less than the rate of inflation while incurring higher cost share for benefits and higher property and school taxes they will eventually struggle to put food on the table.

I may not be able to solve the problems, but I won't pretend that just because I don't have a problem putting food on my table that everything is okay or that people who are struggling have just made poor decisions.

Yes we have a new POTUS and things will change, but unfortunately, it doesn't seem to matter which party is at the helm, the right push us in one direction, the left push us in the opposite direction, they keep us so busy fighting each other about things that don't matter that we fail to notice that the only ones winning are the filthy rich.

We have not had a budget surplus since 1968. We have watched the ever growing divide between rich and poor for the same 5 decades. We apparently didn't learn much from the roaring 20s or the great depression.

I understand the desire to bury our heads in the sand and think that these people who can't afford a good quality sofa must have done something wrong. If we admit that they didn't do anything wrong and they have no control over their ability to buy a sofa we also have to admit that our boat may be heading over the same waterfall.

We can continue to blame those who can't afford a decent quality sofa and go about our lives with our heads in the sand? Will anything change if we don't even have the courage to admit that there is a really bad thing happening.

“This country will not be a good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a good place for all of us to live in.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

Your information is incorrect. The US had a budget surplus in fiscal 2001.

And seriously, can you just stop. You keep trying to take the thread in a direction it doesn’t need to go. This is a design forum, not Reddit.

Haha, @suedonim75, I was just going to write the same thing!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/200410/surplus-or-deficit-of-the-us-governments-budget-since-2000/

If I were doing re-upholstery today, I would only choose Sunbrella type fabrices......they are amazing and clean like a dream......

Thank you, Jennifer! I’ve been trying to bite my tongue (thumbs?) but the idea that people can’t afford a high-end couch because they’re wasting all their money on coffee is such a tired old trope.

I agree that a well made sofa can last longer and be more comfortable than cheap options. However, I also know that you can get a perfectly satisfactory sofa to last 10+ years in the $1,000 to $1,500 range. At which point, most people want a design change before the sofa is “worn out”.

I live in a county where the median HOUSEHOLD income is less than $50k per year. $4,000 to $5,000 on a sofa isn’t an option, no matter how many posts there are on sofa quality. Educating people on what makes a quality sofa, etc is great but sometimes people really only have $1,000 (which is a lot of money).

A helpful post about sofa quality would include tips on which brands/features are best in different price ranges.

There are FIFTY threads on what makes a quality sofa, who make that sofa, and how to get that sofa. You will like the information, you won't like the price. : )

Hardwood frames, glued , screwed, and doweled. Eight way hand tied springs support. ......... Good cushioning in spring down, ( coils springs encased in foam, a down and feather wrap over that)

The front edge of a sofa, ( under the seat . front edge) should have "give" Lean on it.......it should bounce back up. If it doesn't, that edge is your cushion destroyer.

Hand tie and done well? This the process, best demo on the internet , whether leather or any other fabric. The gold standard....if you will. You won't find it in any online with a click sofa. You're unlikely to find it in a sofa under 3800.00 dollars......even then there can be the "cheats shown in the video.

As I said.........human hands are very much involved. involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjB8DiaHJN4&t=187s

There are definitely several streams of thought going on here:

People who want quality but can't afford it.

People who can afford it but have a hard time finding good quality.

People who don't care about quality and will buy whatever because they're going to change it in a few years.

(feel free to add to this list.)

Look closely at the near end of the couch. .............that is what QUALITY is NOT. I HAVE SEEN BETTER AT COSTCO.

Which means. price is not the only dictator. The skill of human hands does matter. You don't yank a quality upholsterer from a bus stop. When you do find the skill it takes time to hone? You have to pay that guy or gal. You have to pay a lot of things regarding that person.....workman's comp being just one. .... a nail gun is a dangerous tool. Humans are expensive. The more custom you make anything, the more you pay. We could go on forever with the variables involved in ONE single sofa.

https://laurelberninteriors.com/2016/08/10/shocking-truth-restoration-hardware/

Adding to LoveMOD...

I. WANT IT NOW. Like right now. Like Prime quick.

About the only thing in life that doesn't fall under this mantra? lol.............go find DH. Quick. Spare us the quality level, okay? There ya go. A good veer and some relief.

@suedonim75

@Diana Bier Interiors, LLC

I'm sorry, but the budget surplus attributed to Clinton were actually fuzzy accounting.

The reported budget surplus ignored the debt that the government owed to itself. (Taxpayers paid into Social Security and the Government borrowed that money from Social security to pay for other things, but at some future date that money must be paid back)

As you can see below - Clinton never reduced the total national debt.

It would be similar to you spending your 401k savings to pay for a new car and not counting that as a budget deficit because your bank savings account didn't go down. Since you don't need your 401k money until you retire it doesn't count?

I remember my first experience producing government reporting on city/county animal euthanasia rates. The public agency I worked for brought in around 400 animals a week, we adopted out about 250 a month, but the government charter required that we had no more than a 15% euthanasia rate (240 a month). The 1100 additional euthanasia's were recorded in ways that made them not count toward the very clearly defined parameters used to calculate the "euthanasia rate". The County rates were fudged a bit differently. The County Humane organization had a zero euthanasia rate. Any animals who needed to be euthanized were transferred to Animal Control and there was no mandated euthanasia rate for Animal Control. Those numbers were never disclosed to the public.

Back to the point in all of this. What it should cost, and ALL the rest. What it "should" cost, does not mean what YOU should pay. It simply meant , inside the minefield that sofa selection has become? What can you expect from what you pay? Even that shall DEPEND.

When you are 28, you can sit on anything, as long as there is room to curl up, cuddle or nap. . Nothing on your body requires any support, Your kids could sit on cement.

I'm an equal opportunity type. As LONG as you are happy and thrilled with a selection for as long as you need to be happy? Super !! The rub of course is will you be happy in the crystal ball selection process this whole issue is.

I tripped on a blog last night - "Life on Virginia Street." Young childless couple absolutely over the MOON in love with their Pottery Barn Slip covered sofa. Adorable room pics, as happy as their cats, the whole nine yards.

When I look at their love affair sofa? I see the ZERO support. NADA. Yes, I do. But after three YEARS of ownership? They are still thrilled. So..................the three year old "love" which takes some work each day, but they don't mind. BELOW :

IN THEIR DARLING SPACE! ...........super cute : )

Here's a WELL MADE/SIMILAR. with support and immaculate tailoring. Taylor King.

Now...............not the same thing, not the same room, not the same sofa. Not three years old.........thirty years old. I had NO gray hair when I bought it.. Slip covered. Lost count......a few times. To die for comfy, has seen thousands of naps, football games, pizza, you name it. It cost me 2k, thirty years ago, doesn't owe me a thin dime. Looks the same after a nap as it did before a nap. Is it going anywhere soon? No. Is thirty years long enough for a sofa? Bet your ass it is. It's more time than anyone needs, even me. But it's to die for nappy time comfy, sit comfy. clean as a whistle, ...so ...WHY would I ditch it? Taylor King, eight way hand tied, spring down AND THIRTY DANG YEARS. Did I ask for thirty years, or even half that? No. But it refuses to die, obviously : ) Also, given I "shop" for a living, there's the shoemakers kids issue involved as well.

Hence, how much do you require from your selection, and how much can you pay.....how much are you willing to pay and will you get what what you paid for. : ) See your crystal ball.

General · More Info

And let's not forget it's a peer and marketing thing, too. PB and West Elm, etc are considered by the younger generation as a step up from their 1st sofas as all the "better" brands have done a terrible job of marketing themselves and making their furniture "hip."

I've been shopping for a sofa for the past month. The store that is known locally to have the better brands looks like they are ready to go out of business any day. It's a mumble jumble of furniture and the atmosphere is dark and depressing. When I looked at fabric swatches I complained to the "seasoned" salesperson how difficult it was to see the actual color of the swatches. Her reply " yeah, I've complained about it, too." When I asked her to tell me about a particular sofa I was looking at, her monotone response- "it's really good one. It's made in Wisconsin where I'm from and I just helped my in-laws redo their livingroom and they have a chair from this company and are happy with it." Nothing about the construction was mentioned that would justify me paying more for than the sofa down the street that I like for less dollars. We know if I went into PB I would be greeted with a hip, good feeling atmosphere and a salesperson that is excited about their product. And if I didn't know anything about construction and fabrics, guess where I would buy? So I think the experience plays a big part in what is purchased, too. And even a web-site can influence a buyer in the same way.

following

Ted, I am pretty sure the old conservative local furniture sellers are about ready to go under, and have no $$$ to be hip. Just look at all the traditional furniture makers that have gone under.

Your point about marketing is right on. Restoration Hardware introduced the huge Life Style” centers in major cities and they are a big hit. You can meet friends for coffee or wine, sit down with your computer, whatever you want In these places. Very hip (if that word is even being used anymore.) This approach to marketing and their affinity club turned the company around and their stock has gone from 123$ to 471$ in the last twelve months. So the lesson I’ve learned from this is: Buy their stock, not their sofa. 🥴

Good advice, Jay!

If you want a decent upholstered piece at a decent price, look at Crate and Barrel. Most of their upholstered furniture is made in North Carolina, unlike the majority of other popular retailers. IMO C&B is the best value out there if you can't afford designer-level furniture, which most of us can't.

Back to this PB sofa: Happening into Pottery Barn yesterday, in search of a few pillows for a client, I SAT. On this one. If only to be fair, and possibly say "No wonder they love it!- it's faaaaaaabulous!!!"

Can I say that? No. In a word or few, the mere sit for five minutes, by anyone who KNOWS BETTER, tells you it is junk. Perhaps the word "support" needs definition. It doesn't mean that it will withstand many "sits" without cracking in half. Or that its even "firm!" It's more a feeling of being cradled without sinking. Of a little bounce. It is the "unfelt "beneath"......that lies beneath the cushioning.

Let's relate this to quality outdoor furniture. The best cushioning on that. It will never feel as good as indoor furniture. The "what's beneath" the cushioning will not allow it. Same with a sleep sofa.

The PB. in a simple plain everyday performance fabric prices at 2499.00 before delivery. and any sales tax. For arguments sake, I'll say the potentially great sofa is double the PB pre tax price. Divide please. Over even seven years of comfort and good looks? That is $ 357.14 per year. That "delta" could get you Hickory Chair, with fine support, cushioning. and tailoring., in any of hundreds of custom fabrics, Looks similar ? ......I assure you . It is not:, but you would have to "find", 357.00 a year.

Not saying you have 357.00 , should have 357.00 , should want to have it. Just pointing out the "delta" to REAL support and comfort. Mmmmmmm.... a 12.00 large pizza, once a week all year is 624.00 : ) annually. So, Look, before you leap. Or order. Sofas or pizza.

Following. @Jan I caught your comments to a previous post about sofas and took it to heart. My DH is still in 1970 thinking things should cost about 1/3 but I've been sharing your post with him. We are building a house and furnishing it with new for the first time. We're finding that age old question of how long should something last and what are we willing to pay comes up on everything. Sofa, mattress, landscape. We finally pulled the trigger on a sofa. I'm still nervous about it, because it seemed like a lot of money but it did have the things you recommended, like clasps to hold the cushions together and performance fabric. Is it hand made? 🤷‍♀️ I don't think the sales person knows. If I ask I'll hear what I'm supposed to hear to but it. All that to say thank you for helping those of us who are clueless on furniture. I had trouble finding a hickory chair or the sofa you bought. I would love to know more brands that are good quality and maybe medium priced, say maybe your top 10. Anyways. here's the one we purchased. Did I mention they'll replace an entire cushion if we get a permanent stain? for life. Does that mean it's a good quality? I want it to last about 30 years /$6k 🙂

@ keep the faith,

You don't mention what exactly you bought, you paid 6 k : ) Hard for me to say, you don't mention the maker. It certainly looks well tailored.

Truth is? There really isn't "medium" . There is everything I consider to be a hoax, because I understand comfort and quality. It is not possible to deliver what I consider comfort, AND quality, for 1000, 2000, retail dollars and brand new. It just isn't and we can argue it all day long with folks waxing on about Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn, Restoration Hardware and the like.

It is also no longer reasonable, to expect anything other than the house itself, to last thirty years. Even the 6k won't do that, unless you never ,ever sit.

The internet and mass market bigger box, have reduced good furniture stores nationwide to few. no Idea where you purchased.

My advice to anyone building? Get a good independent, honest, interior designer. ONE WITH ACCESS TO wholesale sources. Yes......wholesale sources. Access to a decent design center is the key. It is called " to the trade" The trade has many advantages you do NOT. The most obvious is access. Variety. Customizing. All the manufacturers you can't buy with a click of a mouse. And the other ability to make your home flow in every regard, as home is about more than the couch.

The other issue: Can you sit , and can you test drive? I won't lie. It's very tough. I just furnished a client : Hickory chair, Sofa, 2 chairs just under 10k ......on my word, their good faith of a twenty year relationship. . Why? There was no other way. They are comfort/quality obsessed : )

Even my little foray through a Stickley , local ( yesterday ) revealed boatloads of ............not much. Call it lower standards to ensure survival. No Hickory Chair, a small smattering of Taylor King , an isolated case of Hancock and Moore leather chair or two. So......yes, it is the ever daunting minefield, more than it ever was.

If you are near a major or good sized medium city? Many to the trade design centers have to the public days. Usually, a Saturday. They can even help you source a designer who can..........save you time, even money !!! , and stress.

In the meantime? Try to remember there are lots of mistakes one can make in life. Sofas, are rarely life and death. In fact, they are never that.

Someone got a TRUE deal. A Baker, 1970'S, ORIGINAL mohair upholstery ( a single yard of mohair can set you back 500.00 dollars )

timeless, fabulous, and 5500.00. And a total STEAL : )

You;d be looking at a 25k sofa today, same fabric, any color. Yes, you read that right.

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/seating/sofas/sofa-mfg-baker-1970s-original-mohair-upholstery/id-f_365788/

Part of it is simply finding the "quality" stuff. Most people go to their local big furniture store to shop, or as others have said, the trendy stores like Pottery Barn. You're going to find imported stuff that is maybe average quality at best, and prices ranging from dirt cheap to fairly expensive.

I like to buy American when I can, and furniture is one of those products where I still can find a good variety of American made products. The local furniture warehouse has some of those brands, but I had to check out a small store that doesn't advertise to find a place that primarily focused on higher-end quality furniture. Hopefully it lasts as long as it should. That reminds me, I need to figure out the frame squeak I get from my Huntington House chair.

No one has mentioned that when you buy a couch at RH, PB or Crate & Barrel they all are the same couch for the most part and you can only get it in gray, beige or cream. And you can get leather in black, brown and maybe cream or gray.

Anthropologie has some more unique styles and fabric choices but I would suspect the actual quality of those is not particularly good.

When I was shopping for furniture, I didn't even see anything that delighted me and the fabric choices weren't what I wanted or needed.

Years ago I remember going to a store and there being books and books of fabric possibilities. This was in places where the middle class shopped like WJ Sloanes (the one in NY and not the chain) or Bloomingdales (and yes there was a time when Bloomies was not ultra trendy but was where the respectable middle class shopped. Macys also had a whole floor of furniture at its 34th Street location. The on-staff designers would even visit your home and design your entire living room. This was back when I was a kid - my first sofa was actually made at the local upholstery shop with fabric that I selected from swatches my mother brought back from one of the fabric manufacturers. Back then fabrics from Schumacher and Brunshwig were affordable to the middle classes. When I checked prices during my recent remodel they had escalated to price points that were far higher than just inflation - not complaining just mentioning that these used to be middle class fabric possibilities years ago.

@Jan, the mfg is Vanguard, model Fairgrove. Store is Klingmans which is in MI only, circa 1896, in Grand Rapids. I just found their brand list and Hickory Chair is on there. Now I'm curious if Hermann Miller was around at that time when MI was blooming in the furniture business?

Jan, yes, a steal on that sofa! I saw it too and thought the same. (Only it is not white, grey, cream or beige so not in millennial style!) Most folks haven’t had the pleasure of a mohair or horsehair velvet sofa. Especially if you live in a chilly climate, they are a dream. And wear so well. I have three partial bolts of mohair velvet in my storage room leftover from my various sofa reupholstering projects. I wish I had something to re-do! I found several yards on e-bay for $40 a yard. Other bolts found at an LA mill ends store on sale for cheap too. Everybody, keep a look out for it, if you can snag some you will love it.

I would just like to point out to everyone saying Pottery Barn is imported crap from China that it might not be high end furniture, but they are supposedly handmade in Hickory.

https://www.potterybarn.com/design-studio/pottery-barn-made-in-america/

so I don’t understand the need to belittle those whose budget is Pottery Barn. For many people, even Pottery Barn is a luxury

Here is a sofa I am madly in love with--and it is obviously of good quality. Alas, renovations on my new home have left me financially unable to afford it now regardless of how good it might be. (But I'd love to have both of them.)

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/seating/sofas/emerald-green-midcentury-chesterfield-sofa-from-england/id-f_731944/ 

@keepthe faith

Vanguard is a nice MODERATE sofa . As to yours, essentially a sectional with chaise: The model seems to be an 86 inch left arm sofa, combined with right arm chaise.......potentially a length of 122 inches all combined?

Have you "planned" the room, meaning what other seating will you use? And how that ALL fits in the new space?

I dislike a chaise, as they LIMIT your selection for a cocktail table in front of that sofa.

Basically, I admit I am anti sectional in general, for their lack of versatility in room arrangement. Often leaving you "armless" if you desire a change in positioning.

You may want to upload your floor plan for the house., with the room dimensions. : ) I'm happy to look, as are others. A jpeg, that can be enlarged with a "click"

I began the thread, and subsequently have exhausted my own brain lol. There is no magic, no free lunch in life. This is truth; there's always a catch. It's like extended warranties on any product, from appliances to autos. You pay for the warranty, or you accept that proper care and maintenance may mean you never need that, and IF you need it? It was nothing more than enforced rainy day savings. You're the child, the warranty is your parent.

As to the couch?"We'll replace your cushions for FREE" Goody goody. That just tells you you will NEED to do that. You have purchased known obsolescence, due to inferior frames, and inferior cushioning.

Guarantees are generally useless. They are difficult to collect. They come with a ream of paper stating rules and exceptions.

Maintenance: AS IT PERTAINS TO UPHOLSTERY. No matter what it is, no matter what you paid.

Frequent vacuuming. UNDER the cushions as well. ( This prevents the abrading of fabric as a result of dust, crumbs, popcorn kernels and whatever else may lurk beneath. How often? I like weekly. Twice a month is mandatory. Dust in combination with body oils from hands , feet, bare legs? It equals GRIME.

Frequent cushion rotation, seats and backs. Frequent flipping

BEAT IT! YES, a good weekly pounding and fluffing of any and all cushions.

( The current popularity of a single bench seat.: They are never a great idea. They are a BAD idea on all but the most well made sofas. there is a reason you see so many three seat sofas. It's not just to define the seats for each person. It gains you longevity. The larger the cushion? the more difficult to keep that cushion stable. The fewer options YOU have for sharing the wear.

It's a couch, not a dining table. ...............yes. If you need to literally LIVE on it? Cover in advance for spill, grease, .........and whatever the hell else you do on there.

Sounds like a lot of work? Pay now, or pay LATER. Later may come a lot sooner than you want, if you don't do it. In other words, self insure.

Every appendage added to a sofa (sectional, chaise, etc) makes current and future configuration more difficult.

Also, in general, adults prefer their own seats and the confining nature of a sectional makes it socially awkward to politely leave a conversation. The worst: a corner seat in a sectional.

As long as you know that going in......

Keepthefaith, Herman Miller evolved from the Star Furniture Co./Michigan Star Co., founded in 1905 in Michigan, and the Herman Miller. brand came in to being around 1923 from that . Rohdes and Eames both became design directors of the company in subsequent years. The Howard Miller Clock Co. Evolved from Herman Miller, too.

Keepthefaith- better not to have the "they'll replace the cushion for free" into the equation as if that time ever comes, there probably is a pretty good chance that the store or manufacturer will no longer be in business. I can't tell you how many times through the years I've bought better brands that are no longer around and stores that I thought would never go out of business are now gone. Just because they've been around forever doesn't guarantee anything. Did you ask if the store is out of business who will handle the transaction? Plus, who says that down the road the fabric will even be in the line-up or even the dye lot will match.

That said, I looked up the Vanguard Upholstery Warranty. You may want to read it as I think you have been misinformed or you misunderstood.

https://vanguardfurniture.com/CMS/Warranty 

@JAN MOYER I went sofa shopping today at my local family owned store. Lots and lots of Bassett. i remembered what you said about the frame should give in front, nothing did. Then I made it to the back of the store where there was a few sofas from Smith Brothers of Berne. The salesman was excited to show me the difference in the frame, the give. The springs were 8 way tied but not hand tied, the foam in the cushions was more substantial, he demonstrated how he could jump on the sofa if he wanted. And it was the most comfortable of all I had sat on.

So to price, 5000 delived for sofa and loveseat in the fabric I liked. I came home and priced similar sized pottery barn, which gets mixed reviews, and PB was over 1000 more. Good deal? what’s your opinion on the brand? this is for a family room with a family of 4, gets lots of use

It's interesting that this popped up. My parents paid $1160 with a discount for a LR sofa in 1969 (8500 now, at original price it would have been over 10K now--yes I still have all the receipts) and around $1000 for the den sofa. The company reupholstered the den sofa in 1970 because the fabric was not holding up well. I have the LR sofa in my LR now, waiting to be reupholstered. My niece has the other sofa in the 1970 fabric. The fabric is fine, the thread holding the seams on the cushions together is failing. I would say 50+ years is a good life cycle for modern factory made furniture and there is no reason it couldn't last another 50. My dad took another job just to pay for furniture in the new house.

rtpaige03

Not familiar with the brand. Anything is better than Pottery Barn ?!

@User We bought 2 Smith brothers sofas 4 years ago from a local furniture store and they have held up wonderfully to daily wear by 2 adults, 2 rambunctious children (one was a baby at time of our purchase), and one crotchety old schnauzer. While they don't look quite brand new, they do still look very good- and more importantly, still sit and feel about as they did new. I noticed a small light stain the other day (looked like dry light dirt- probably from children's feet or legs after coming in from playing) and it rubbed right out with a few rubs from a damp cloth. There have been no issues with the tufting or buttons or nailhead trim. Probably the parts that have shown wear most are the feet that have marks from the vacuum bumping it.

This is the couch we chose. The fabric is tealish and has a subtle crosshatch pattern woven into fabric. Its cleanable with water or water based cleaners. I tried to link exact fabric but it just links to all fabrics.

We have no regrets.

Smith Brothers was on my short list of acceptable brands when I was shopping. My brother and his wife have a SB sectional for 15 years and it is still quite comfortable. They don't have pets or kids, but it is the main seating area of their home so it is used daily.

Anyone, esp. Jan Moyer who I have followed quite a bit, have any preferences based on experience with client satisfaction and the quality of upholstored sofas from HIckory Chair, Taylor King and Stickley furniture? Please feel free to rate them 1,2, 3 or share comments if you have strong feelings about their quality in 2022. I'm concerned about overall quality about so many things today due to so many circumstances of running a business this past 2 years during the pandemic. Thank you!

mo mo I have the same question. After looking into a lot of brands, I'm leaning toward Hickory Chair. Taylor King's still in the running too. However, I just read this morning that HC takes a year or more, and that quality is inconsistent now. TK has mixed reviews now too. So maybe Baker? But I've heard Baker's made in Mexico now - sales person said this. Maybe I just shouldn't read reviews... Then there's the fabric confusion - durable, doesn't pill terribly...

I like to buy high qualityfurniture brands like Baker, Century, Henredon, etc., from consignment shops, amazon market place, or garage sales, etc., and then have it re-upholstered. I find my fabric from online auctions or online fabric dealers on sale. I can find imported velvets, satins, etc. and performance fabrics for pennies on the dollar. Crypton is a wonderful fabric line that is not expensive and is truly a performance fabric. The very high end fabric houses have their performance fabrics manufactured by them.

And I just saw a fabulous sofa at the Frontgate outlet for $1000 on sale. It was originally $6000 but a customer cancelled order because it took too long to deliver. I know Frontgate probably isn’t the best made but for a living room not used very often it would have been perfect. Also the Restoration Hardware RH Outlets have excellent sale days if you like sectionals and RH style but don’t want to pay the $$$. Just a few ideas for those who hate to pay retail like me. Good luck!