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kathyc_z10_socal

soil test results--help!

4 years ago

hi all, Hoping someone can chime in if they have experience with soil test results such as @roseseek or @strawchicago z5. We do not have a local extension office that provides soil tests so I went to a local farm supply. They werent the most helpful about what the results mean or the operational aspects of how to fix it. Test results came A&L Western Agricultural Labs, so I might call them. However, coming here for a wealth of knowledge you all have.


I am in south Orange County, CA (10a hot and dry) where the water is alkaline from what I have recently researched. We get very little rainfall to wash out the gardens soil. I replaced and/or amended the naturally clay soil with organics. I was only able to put out a little mulch on top last year owing to the nuttiness of the year (homeschooling two kids).


I tested the soil in some new beds I created 1.5 years ago. The roses in those beds are not thriving. Or in the case of Florentina, became a green monster with no flowers.


My ph is 7.6! I have low (8) nitrogen, very high phosphorus (110), high potassium (588), high magnesium (550), high zinc (7), low manganese (2), low calcium (2081) and copper is high (1.9). The gentleman at the supply said: add nitrogen, gypsum, and elemental sulfur. I did use rose tone last year a few times as well as weak fish emulsion.

However, I believe watering and the ph of our water plays into this as well. I was watering twice a day in the summer, less quantity, due to the high heat, which I now believe added to the problem.



My questions are: What nitrogen only supplement would you all recommend? I see Espoma produces urea but I'm worried about overdoing it. How often /how many gallons should I water keeping in mind the alkalinity issue? How about a product for elemental sulfur? And does anyone understand Percent Cation Saturation enough to explain it to me?? thanks for any advice, rosey people!



Comments (14)

  • 4 years ago

    @Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b) had this done. I know she's very busy now, but maybe she'll have a suggestion.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Katthyc, your numbers are very high. How reputable is this company ? All I know if something is high, do not add anything.

    I was reading below the tables about prior to planting. It recommends you to spread below requirements Gypsum 10, Elemental Sulfur 20 and Nitrogen 20. Nothing else.

    Seems you salt is very high and having drainage problems. Your Micronutrients are very high too.

    I would just follow what they recommend or call them up. I wish I can be more help.

    Good luck, my rosy friend !

  • 4 years ago

    Join the website “around the yard”. They will read soil tests and make recommendations for you. let them know this is for flower beds, not the lawn. They guy used to do it here on the Lawn forum has moved over there. Really knowledgeable, helped me a ton!

  • 4 years ago

    @kathyc_z10_socal if it helps, a friend in Florida who works as a County Extension Agent posted this list of soil test sites state by state. Perhaps you might also find information from some of them. https://gardeningproductsreview.com/state-by-state-list-soil-testing-labs-cooperative-extension-offices/ 


  • 4 years ago

    You should not worry about the amount of water you are applying even though you have high ph water. The added sulfur will lower your ph and counteract the effect of the ph of your water.


    Urea is ok, just divide the total amount needed into smaller applications. I use elemental sulfur, not a named product, for temporary lowering of ph.


    If the depth of your soil sample included both amended and native soil, your soil may be in better shape than the soil test indicated.


    You said that these beds were not thriving. It might be better to analyze the roses' foliage and growth. Do the leaves show minor deficiencies? Are they undersized or misshaped. If you post photos of the plants and foliage, there are experts on this forum that can tell you what you need to do.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Salts build up in California soils in years of low rainfall, which we certainly have had. In particular I skip my spring application of composted manure unless we've had a good winter rainfall (definitely skipping it this year).

    Many California soils are low in nitrogen and need yearly applications.

    I agree that consulting the lab that did the testing might be a good idea. And tell them what you are growing. Many people are growing lawns or vegetables. The requirements might be a bit different.

  • 4 years ago

    I know some have questioned the numbers you got. I, OTOH, believe them. My water runs around 8.5


    I also don't want to be discouraging, but I have found over many years that because my WATER is so very alkaline, my soil will constantly revert, no matter WHAT I put in there. But you can use soil sulfur. I've had Ironite recommended, but of course, it is very slow acting.


    I have also found over the years that no rose with a high % of Multiflora in its background is going to be very happy in my conditions. I can grow Poly-Teas, for instance, but regular Polyanthas are going to suffer. Purple roses, for the most part, don't do well, because they go back to Multiflora.


    I have seen White . . . WHITE leaves on 'Reine des Violettes' and 'Excellenz von Schubert'. When the problem is that severe, mending it becomes a full-time job. Now, I just don't plant roses here that won't handle my conditions.

  • 4 years ago

    Do you see chlorosis on your leaves? Davis has some good information about soil levels needed for roses. They also mention electrical conductivity above table 1. http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7465.html

  • 4 years ago

    Also more explanation about interpretation of soil tests. I found this after looking for explanation for my soil test results. http://iv.ucdavis.edu/files/24409.pdf

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago
  • 4 years ago

    This discussion is about P and K deficiency, which you don’t have, but I found it helpful in deciphering the language used in the test results. http://calag.ucanr.edu/Archive/?article=ca.2016a0007

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Stephanie: I looked through your links, fantastic info. Thank you. The first link was where I got rose tissue analysis (done by U of CA at Davis) back in 2014. Rose-tissue analysis: more nitrogen than potassium, 1/2 calcium, 1/10 phosphorus and 1/10 magnesium.

    Kathyc_z10: See below link for info. on alkaline-soil & fertilizer. Below link shows my discussion with BirdsLoveRoses .. she has pH 9 to 10 soil with high salt. She has pH 9 tap-water like I do. If you have any questions, I'm ready to answer here too. My soil test back in 2011 was pH 7.7 with exceedingly high magnesium & low manganese & low calcium. I did gypsum like they recommended, but if I have to do it all over again, I would focus on organic matter (alfalfa and cracked corn) to UP the nitrogen & moisture, rather than gypsum which DRIED OUT MY CLAY (I have rock hard alkaline clay).

    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6111804/soil-ph-soil-type-moisture-fertilizer-for-certain-roses#26816464

    Below is a thread which I wrote on gypsum is best FOR THE BOTTOM of planting hole only. I also included a map of different soils across USA:

    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5971487/calling-strawchicago-re-clay-alkaline-soil-amendments-fertilizers

  • 4 years ago

    I think adding organic amendments to the soil is crucial for soil health, but I agree with Jeri - it's a constant battle to get the soil pH down near neutral and keep it there while always adding alkaline tap water.

    You could try adding Alfalfa Pellets to the soil. Strawchicago says they add acid as they break down. Also a source of Nitrogen for you. I haven't tried it yet, but it's on my list...

    Stephanie - thanks for all the links

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