@Creative Tile Eastern CT absolutely - we plan to open the overage still in a box and see if we see any issues with manufacturing - it’s very important as you said to get all the facts and not simply accuse them of shoddy workmanship.

@Creative Tile Eastern CT is there a certain tile without mesh that is better for a concave surface? Is that even possible? Sorry I am very new to this world. :) You are correct that this is mosaic tile on mesh (from Bedrosian).

Regardless of the products quality. The end result is unacceptable. That needs to be your focus. If it is blamed on the product then inquire as to why it was not brought to your attention prior to the installation. There is clearly installer error in your photo. The product may be fine. Any in progress photos would be helpful.

I’m mystified by this joint and screw in your photo, can you post photos from further back? In progress photos?

@HALLETT & Co. i will take more photos in the morning when there is more light!

@HALLETT & Co. my husband had this on his phone... not sure if it’s helpful for what you are asking about

no, your not being too picky

With tile where even spacing is important, the tile needs to be "rectified". https://www.thespruce.com/rectified-tile-basics-production-process-1821263

@HALLETT & Co. I'm seeing the same things...and I'm concerned about those as well. Are you seeing any water proofing here?

@lgtn Can you take photos of the entire shower? What we are trying to determine is the OVERAL work of the people working in your bathroom. Water proofing is VERY picky work. If things on the SURFACE (the pretty stuff we pick) looks 'weird' then we worry about the cr@p work that is hidden by the pretty (the lack of water proofing in a shower is A HUGE ISSUE and it happens MORE OFTEN then you can ever imagine!).

In other words, we are trying to help you figure out if a complete REDO is required...No use fixing the 'pretty stuff' if the work behind it is as useless as a bag of hammers! We want to help you figure out WHERE to draw the line. It could be the 'start line' that you have to bring them back to (do over) or it could be the 'finish line' (better tile work) you need them to step up to finish the job.

You’re not being picky enough. The issues aren’t the tile. The issues are what is behind the tile. This is a failing grade.

SJ McCarthy that’s my concern as well. I see a joint in cement board, an exposed screw, and a really thin coat of something on all of it. Doesn’t look promising.

Is it a gap or a pencil line? Is it liquid applied waterproofing or a approved wall board with a textured surface such as Dense Shield? Way to many unknowns.

@HALLETT & Co. @Creative Tile Eastern CT So, we have figured out it is a pencil line and not a seam around the bottom - as far the waterproofing- the walls are green wall board and has some kind of textured surface applied to it. My husband is going to dig around the dumpster to see if he can determine what the blue stuff is ... Photos to come below.

@Creative Tile Eastern CT@SJ McCarthy @HALLETT & Co. the blue product is called "Mapelastic AquaDefense"

@SJ McCarthy @Creative Tile Eastern CT@HALLETT & Co. Should we be concerned about the few screws covered in aquadefense but not covered in the drywall mud (or whatever was used)? What about the width of the gap between the floor tile and wall? The gap does seem pretty big, but does grout go there ultimately?

Green drywall can’t be used in a shower... I’m not familiar with the mapielastic so can’t help there. Glad it’s just pencil but the rest looks like a tear out anyhow. See that cut edge at the bottom- moisture is going to wick up into the drywall from there and it will turn to mush. And mold. And heartache. That niche...

@HALLETT & Co. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’m guessing you think the niche is a big no as well?? This is all becoming worse than I anticipated! I’m thankful for the feedback.

This link will provide technical data for your discussion with the contractor.

[https://cdnmedia.mapei.com/docs/librariesprovider10/products-documents/3002103-mapelastic-aquadefense-en_47cfa66463284885a6cd6ada8e794e5b.pdf?sfvrsn=62e29483_0(https://cdnmedia.mapei.com/docs/librariesprovider10/products-documents/3002103-mapelastic-aquadefense-en_47cfa66463284885a6cd6ada8e794e5b.pdf?sfvrsn=62e29483_0)

Note the statement under acceptable substrates.

"Interior only • Gypsum wallboard (walls only, in approved application areas only)"

Important - Gypsum wallboard is not approved for a wet area. Has not been since 2006.

I suggest calling Mapei technical dept. in the morning. 800-992-6273.

Actually have them on the phone during your contractor meeting. GC can't argue with them and it takes the pressure off of you. A win win.

We had a slow but major leak in our last house due to poor waterproofing. It is a complete nightmare and not covered by insurance. I would run from this installer and never let them touch my project again. I am not a professional but I can tell you that this looks a lot worse than ours did.

@Creative Tile Eastern CT the walls will be glazed tile, not unglazed (Bedrosian Cloe)

It doesn’t matter what the tile is or what the grout is. Neither make a shower waterproof, nor does a sealer after the fact. A shower is made waterproof by the waterproofing SYSTEM installed prior to tile. After a shower is properly waterproofed you could take a shower even though there was no tile. The tile is a decorative cleanable surface. Mapelestic is a perfectly fine product but it’s being used incorrectly here so will never be waterproof no matter how many times he tells you he always does it this way.

Tile selection is irrelevant. You should be able to run the shower without any tile installed and be leak free. Tile is strictly cosmetic. Tile, grout and caulk are not waterproofing. What is behind them will determine if it is a successful or failed shower installation. Rely on product manufacturers for support. They will back everything in writing. Myself and Hallett & Co. are just folks trying to help on this forum. Our opinion means nothing in a dispute.

Good luck.

Sorry. Did not see Hallett's comment as I was typing. It appears we are making the same point as we often do.

@Creative Tile Eastern CT @HALLETT & Co. i think I just didn’t quite understand what I was reading from the manufacturer and thought something was specific to using unglazed tile. I will re-read and definitely keep everything you all are saying in mind tomorrow when the contractor comes over.

Most likely researching shower floor tile you will see unglazed suggested due to slip factor. Tiles have DCOF ratings. To much info!! Discuss the shower construction method used. That's the Big one!!

@Creative Tile Eastern CT there is concrete on the floor under the tile- I meant to say this earlier - photo below

Do over. Not 1 thing done correctly.

Interesting thread.

WOW....just....WOW!

@SJ McCarthy please elaborate! The more I have to present to our contractor, the better!

Yes. A complete failure.

Liner should continue up the walls a minimum of 3" above the finished curb. Appears to be actually lower than curb on the back wall.

Blocking required between studs to support liner. There is none.

Liner must continue over the curb and be fastened near the floor on the outside. Liner is short.

Flood test?

A preslope is required below the liner so water reaching the liner will weep toward the drain instead of sitting in place and creating mold. I would place a substantial wager this was not done.

Sorry for your situation. As stated above. Not one thing is done correctly. Not even the basics.

A failed liner installation plus green board. It doesn't get much worse.

This book will provide all the details of what I laid out for you. Show it to the contractor. It may not be a legal document but it carries substantial weight in court.

https://www.tcnatile.com/products-and-services/publications/218-english-publications/188-handbook/968-2020-tcna-handbook-for-ceramic-glass-and-stone-tile-installation.html

This is a botched-up install, if you don't want major issues down the road It must be re-done.

I don't even think this is green board - I think it's a REALLY thin layer of some attempt at paint on waterproofing. If it were green board, wouldn't the mid still show as "white"? And there's an uneven line of color change on the back wall where it meets the slope - leading me to believe there is some painting on of something.

And that niche - O.M.G.

^^^^As above. I'm so sorry this has happened. All I can say is I'm glad you shared with us...so that we could help you stop this sham from continuing.

Building a shower or wet space is very different than throwing in a kitchen or ripping up floors. Yes, all of them need expertise but a botched kitchen can be useful. A bad floor can be fully functional. But a botched shower/bathroom renovation can cause TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars worth of damage...not to mention the money spent to do it (badly)! And nothing of the new costs to demolish and start again.

@Creative Tile Eastern CT @HALLETT & Co. Our contractor is having it all redone. I am a little nervous about it but hopefully it will be done correctly.

If your contractor didn't recognize that the wrong products were being used the first time what is he doing differently this time? Hopefully at least a different tile guy?

Good for you. Post in progress photos. Require all work meets TCNA standards. (Tile Council of North America).

Another detail I intended to mention but forgot earlier. There are no studs at the end of the curb. Which means there is nothing to fasten a glass door to. Basic framing.

To Hallett & Co. point. If it is the same Tile Setter you will now have someone learning on your project. Makes for that uneasy feeling which you already have.

Was going to repeat what's already been said.

Wow.

I sure hope the same people aren't going to build this shower. A complete "how not to waterproof a shower" is what they've done for you.

Tell your contractor you want competent tile experts. I have no idea where he found these other clowns

No green board or gypsum board in a shower! doesn't matter what's being painted or tiled on top of it.

Hardie backer, Durock, Cement board,,,fine. Waterproof that. (or do a vapor barrier behind it)

there should be no screw holes in any of the walls or curb areas. (just imagine if water got behind the tile. the water will find the holes and get behind the material into the wall. Always imagine the surface behind your tile. you need that water-tight. tile/grout are NOT waterproof)

this is the proper way to do a niche. after all the seaming and mortar, then a coat of waterproof coating gets applied

BTW, you should pop on over to JohnBridge Tile forum. They have a wealth of info on properly built showers and tiling.

I'm so glad your contractor is ordering a complete redo. It is the right thing to do. Sadly, s/he has to find out the hard way that these subs are NOT supposed to be anywhere NEAR a wet space. Let them do demo...that's their skill level.

@HALLETT & Co. We feel uneasy... but we have good progress photos from a friend‘s project (and the wealth of knowledge here) to follow closely how a redo is completed - we are very deep into the remodel and dont know if we can easily just hire out our own person for this part of the project - we are pleased our contractor listened to us and are waiting to find out how exactly they plan to redo things. I hate how vulnerable this experience has made me feel - we’ve already invested so much money and this has really made me feel disillusioned with the experience.

Good luck and when they tell you how they're going to redo it, post here so the pros can let you know if it's up to standards. Then post pictures of every step.

I recommend you/someone is on site in the morning. Take photos of where they are when they start the day and then someone drops by just before the end of their day - do the same thing. Take photos and then post photos....each day if you must.

Start a new thread and tell us that you are posting new photos daily with morning/evening photos each time you post. We will keep an eye on how things are going and will point out a 'Stop! Don't let them go any further!' statement if we have to.

You can take a photo of the demolition of this cr@p. Then start with new photos of the redo. If you see wall studs with nothing on them or in them...great. Take a pic. If you see studs with plastic stapled to it but nothing else....great. Take a pic. To you it may not look like much, but to us we will be able to spot the 'little' things that make BIG differences.

You have a stand-up GC. S/he said it's a do over IMMEDIATELY. I know this is disheartening, but we have seen the worst option possible: we've seen GCs tell homeowners (as in, "Hey Lady, let thems guys does the jobs youse's paying 'em to") that nothing is wrong, or that they are too picky or that 'what do you expect'? Etc. And we've seen GS swear at anyone who questions them and drive off...with the homeowner's PRODUCTS in the back of their truck! Nope. Not kidding! They have ghosted homeowners to the point of $20K lost in payments and materials.

I know. It doesn't make you feel much better (especially when it is someone else's misfortune) but you have a better than average situation. You have a GC who is taking this down and getting a new crew. That is MORE than many, many people have gotten.

I know. One would hope a pro would offer more....but the building industry in N. America (for the most part) is the Wild Wild West. That idea of, "Big Government is Bad Government" is part and parcel for the situation we are all living through.

Chin up...you are on the RIGHT TRACK. Trust us on this one. You are going to be OK...your GC is doing what s/he SHOULD be doing.

Thank you for this @SJ McCarthy - I am not entirely sure if it’s a different crew. I know, I know. Our GC did have the mindset that “this is how we’ve usually done it” (meaning, the water proofing) but he definitely didn’t fight my husband (who was unfortunately tasked with the conversation alone since I was in a work meeting) - luckily we both work from home due to Covid and are around to watch what is happening. I agree, it could have gone much worse but I’m not entirely sure we have asked them to do something they’ve actually done before.

@Creative Tile Eastern CT @SJ McCarthy @HALLETT & Co. @Beth H. :

the SC shower guys were over today and my husband had to basically relay all the info to them again. So annoying. One thing they are asking about is adding this: Schluter kerdi membrane

We have told them we will look into it but we are not willing to go this route if it’s just a bandaid or allows them to just do the minimal to repair what the have done. We were told by a friend to request cement board instead.

Kerdi Membrane is a moisture barrier AND a decoupling membrane. It should cover every stick of shower surface...flooring...walls...etc. It is 100x better than just 'cement board'. In fact the two are often used together...cement board first, then your decoupling/moisture membrane and THEN the tiles.

In other words this is something (both the cement backer board AND the Kerdi membrane) that SHOULD have been there in the first place.

I suggest you send an email to the GC. In that email you reiterate what your husband told the 'dudes' who where there. You then EXPLICITELY mention the water proofing requirements and the 'Best Build Practices' as set out by the National Tile Contractors Association (NTCA) in their handbook.

So long as you have it in writing that you EXPECT your shower to be built to CODE and to be water proofed to the 'Best Building Practices' you have a VERY STURDY leg to lean on if you need to go to court/arbitration.

If you do not WRITE IT...you do not 'get it'. Do yourself a favour and make sure you point this out. And if your GC baulks at it...then tell them you will subcontract the bathroom to someone who can and will provide such a service....after his firm demolishes what his firm built.

Schluter is great, but you can't just willy nillie add it- it is a complete system- it requires a proprietary drain and they still would need to remove the drywall and replace it with cement board.

Just seeing the screws on TOP of the curb makes me wince.....

I’ve started a new thread for part two.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6119094/tile-install-disaster-part-2

@HALLETT & Co. @Creative Tile Eastern CT @SJ McCarthy and whoever else wants to follow along for the ride.... 🤦🏻‍♀️🤞