The leaves, in particular, but the rest of the rose, also, are saying 'Marie Pavie' to me (1888). See 'Marie Pavie' on HelpMeFind.

Yes, my first thought was Marie Pavie, also. but how big is the "large shrub"?

My Marie Pavie is fairly old - more than 20 years - and never more than 3 1/2 feet.

My cutting that is a year and a half old is about 2 1/2 feet.

This is a photo of the rose from last summer. It is on a trellis which may make it grow taller than if it were free standing. I'd guess that it is about 6'. The bottom half is pruned by deer.

My plant of 'Marie Pavie' is 5' tall and about 6-7' wide at about 7 years old. Being on the trellis, it would be a bit taller than growing free.

It looks more like Cecile Brunner climbing rose with more petals than Marie Pavie.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.891&tab=36

Google "images of Cecile Brunner climbing rose" and it'll show more pics. than HMF.

I grow Cecile Brunner Spray and this rose is not Cecile Brunner. It lacks the vase shaped buds.

I looked up the petal count on Marie Pavie and it has 17-25 petals which seems about right. I think that Marie Pavie is probably the correct ID.

Souv de Malmaison?

Looks like "The sweetheart Rose", or the non-climbing version of Cecile Brunner.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=6056&tab=1

https://www.rose.org/single-post/mademoiselle-c%C3%A8cile-br%C3%BCnner-the-romance-history-of-the-sweetheart-rose

Below is my Marie Pavie bush (lowest edge), very round and less petals & more white than your pics. Note how white it is in full-sun

Note below less petals & exposed stamens of Marie Pavie (bees love its exposed stamens)

Note the "round & globe-like" compact shrub of Marie Pavie

I wish it were cl Souvenir de la Malmaison, I would want cuttings. It's blossoms are too small and it is polyantha not a bourbon.

It is not a climbing rose though it looks like one when supported by a trellis.

Free standing, it has the shape of a bush.

Back in March, someone else from Washington state also asked for a rose ID, for a 1906 house: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6093960/id-on-a-fragrant-old-rose. Hers was also trained as a climber. Paul Barden's opinion was that it was "almost certainly" 'Marie Pavie', and I thought so, too. The photo of the whole plant in this post looks very similar to the photo of the whole plant in that post, except hers wasn't deer-pruned.

It is important to look at the leaves as well as the flowers, and take into account that different climates and conditions produce different-sized rose plants and differently colored flowers. Some rose flowers are pinker in cooler weather or in the shade and paler in warmer weather or full sun, for example. As it happens, the leaflets of 'Marie Pavie' are very distinctive: relatively large, pointed, coarse, and with an almost quilted appearance. On the basis of leaves alone, it certainly isn't 'Cecile Brunner' and virtually on the basis of leaves, too, as well as other traits, 'Marie Pavie' would be a leading candidate, I think.

Here's my 'Marie Pavie', on the left, a couple of days ago. She is about 5 feet tall, grown as a shrub (the other rose is 'Nastarana', the Persian musk rose).

The first photos are springs shots, the photo of the rose growing against the building is from last summer and the flowers are lighter in color, have less petals and are looser in form. I have Cecile Brunner Spray growing in my garden and it is not Cecile Brunner Spray. Cecil Brunner Cl. is growing else where on the island and it is a once bloomer, so that rules out Cecil Brunner Cl. Being an old clone of the original, it may be more vigorous than some plants currently for sale.

I will be donating own root to plants to the historic society for their plant sale fundraiser. I will call it "AIHS Marie Pavie" . This will show that I believe it to be Marie Pavie but it is a 'found rose' from Anderson Island Historic Society Farm.

Wonderful -- this looks like a really good specimen of Marie Pavie. If I don't move out of WA this summer I might have to get the details of that plant sale so I can get one. :)

I have Marie Pavie here in Oregon and I have to prune her rather severely to keep her small-ish...I wouldn't be surprised if she could be trained to grow tall like in the photo.

Having said that, I'm not knowledgeable to opine about whether the rose is MP or not. I just wanted to mention that in my experience she can indeed get somewhat big.

I have grown two types of Cecil Brunner for over 30 years, and this rose is NOT any type of Cecil Brunner IMO. I agree that the leaves are the stunning quilted type of Marie Pavie. Cecil Brunner does not have this type of leaves, and from the pics of MP on HMF MP always has them.

Exact bloom color(s), growth habit, and even the number of petals can vary with most old roses hybridized in the 19th century, depending on exact climate or micro-climate, weather, location, age of the bush, etc. Even on the same bush, these attributes can vary on old roses. I have several roses in my garden on which the bloom color, # of petals, and growth habit vary, sometimes on the same bush, and sometimes on bushes which are clones of each other. My Duchess de Brabant has open bloom forms and numbers of petals which are different on the same bush at the same time! My Anna Olivier sometimes has all pale yellow blooms, sometimes all pale pink ones, and more often all blooms are the classic flesh colored blooms with a brick back to the petals. Occasionally she decides to have blooms of all three colors, simultaneously! So, I do not think growth habit or exact color of blooms, or number of petals can be used to positively identify a rose. Leaves and bud shape are more consistent, in my experience, as well, of course, as what the prickles and hips look like.

My vote is for Marie Pave, and I am sure it is not any sort of Cecil Brunner.

Jackie

ValRose: How's the scent? Marie pavie can perfume the entire patio with its overpowering musk scent. It's NOT old-rose nor sweet perfume, but harsh strong musk (leather-smell) that floats in the air. My Marie Pavie is always white & less petals than your pics. I can smell its musk scent 5 feet away, but NOT pleasant to stick my nose into the bloom (too overpowering). Click on below pic. of Marie Pavie to enlarge:

Color is always white & zero pink. Petals are always flat-out & much less petals than yours. Marie Pavie opens as white blooms with exposed stamens. Mine is from Burlington nursery in CA. My 2nd Marie Pavie (from Roses Unlimited) was the same: white flowers with exposed yellow stamens which attract bees. Marie Pavie's musk scent is different and distinct from the 134 fragrant roses in my garden.

Another possibility is Clothilde Soupert (white with a touch of pink blush), that comes in both the bush and the climbing form. I grew Clothilde Soupert (polyantha), it has a sweet scent, rather than harsh & overpowering musk scent of Marie Pavie.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.1230.4&tab=36&qn=2&qc=0

I can't believe they put this photo on the home page of Clothilde Soupert.

Sautesmom, the photo on a rose's description page on HMF changes each time the page is accessed -- there's some mode of choosing a photo from among the various photos posted for the variety with each opening of the page. That photo of Patricia Routley's is useful for identification purposes, showing the characteristic redness of its new foliage. She does a lot of id research for the "found" roses on HMF, so does contribute other than "glamour shots" of single blooms that the majority of folks like to post, to that potential end.

Definitely not Clotilde Soupert. Though the buds are similar, not enough petals and not the same scent. Also it never balls.

Marie Pavie has exposed stamens and overpowering musk scent, and blooms are always white. Plus Marie Pavie has a round-globe bush-shape. Note the flat-out petals plus exposed stamens which attract bees. Marie Pavie's flowers are always white.

Valrose' pics. might be a sport of Cecile Brunner.

From Wikipedia: "Several sports of 'Cécile Brünner' were introduced, including climbing forms ('Mlle Cécile Brünner Cl.' discovered by Franz P. Hosp of Riverside, California in 1894 and 'Cécile Brünner Cl.' discovered by Richard Ardagh in Australia in 1904), a dwarf white-flowered form ('White Cécile Brünner', introduced by Fraque in 1909[1]), and deeper pink variants (e.g. 'Mme Jules Thibaud'). The climbing sports normally grow 6 m tall and 3 m wide, but can reach a height of up to 10 m. Their flowers strongly resemble those of 'Cécile Brünner', and appear in a single flush in early summer with a few scattered later blooms.[2] The climber tolerates half shade and can develop some globose, orange hips.[3]

Recently, it was confirmed by DNA analyses that 'Spray Cécile Brünner' (Howard Rose, 1941) is identical with the plants now grown under the name of the cultivar 'Bloomfield Abundance' (Thomas, 1920) and is a sport of 'Cécile Brünner', not related to the original 'Bloomfield Abundance' which was a hybrid seedling of 'Sylvia' and 'Dorothy Page-Roberts'.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_%27C%C3%A9cile_Br%C3%BCnner%27

Here are some pictures of my Marie Pavie today and also last year. Please compare similarity with OP's above pictures, especially noting the leaves.

Did not capture this in the full sun but it was actually a blush pink flower. Please note the bullate leaves and red stems. This is a picture from last year.

I do believe there is a climbing form of MP, but not widely available.

I agree with ValRose that this can't be Cecile Brunner. In the climate of Western Washington that's just not how Cecile Brunner or her sports look -- she is one of the most common roses in our area, so we see her a LOT. I think Cecile Brunner probably looks a bit different in other climates, hence the confusion.

Below is are a couple of pictures of Cecile Brunner in Western WA. Note the way the petals form a sort of starburst in the fully open flower. Note how narrow they are. Note the button eye here, and the pink suffusing the whole flower (not such a concentrated blush at the center). Note the buds are taller than those of the flower in the original picture. Note that in the original picture of the mystery plant the petals of the flower are wider, and have more of a whirlpool rather than a starburst movement to them.

Cecile Brunner Spray bud. Very different from the mystery rose bud. Note the long sepals, almost look like leaves

Year and a half old plant from a cutting of the mystery rose.

It's true. The 1st picture is so identifiable as Cecil bruner just based on it's leaves. I thought my leaves and buds on the 1st 2 pictures I posted were dead ringers for those in the original post. And Spot on for those in your Latest pick.

You know, the mystery rose reminds me a bit of 'Old Gray Cemetery Noisette' , a rose found in a historic cemetery in Knoxville, TN. I've only had OGCN about a year but I believe that it's a polyantha with a similarity to Clothilde Soupert. I have both roses and have been making comparisons. It seems that OGCN is taller and flowers are not quite as large as CS, at least so far. The Mystery Rose may not be either of these but I wonder if it might be related somehow. I also have 'Marie Pavie', my second one. I don't believe the mystery rose, though similar, is MP. My first MP was a semi-double; my second MP's more double with petals a bit more ruffled. First one had a stronger fragrance but the second one may eventually get stronger. All of my above roses will blush pink in the cooler weather of spring and fall.

I wish I could be more help. It really is a mystery rose!

From where did you get your more double Marie Pavie? I have read that there are 2 clones going around 1 that is semi double and the other more full.

Vaporvac, I got my 1st Marie Pavie from Antique Rose Emporium many years ago; maybe 25 or so. I got the second one a couple years ago from Long Ago Roses. This one seems to consistently have more petals and they seem to be a bit more ruffled. This is a young rose, though. Maybe it will change as it matures.

Thank you. I was wondering about her clone and think I asked about it. May I have to get it next year. Can 1 have too many of this rose?🤔😉

Vaporvac. If you're asking me, my clone came from a "found rose" at an historical farm, on an island near Tacoma WA. I'd be glad to send you a rooted cutting.