Rose ID request (pics)

5 years ago

This is a large rambler I have growing out in the big garden, two plants started from cuttings. The plants are once-flowering, generously sized, thorny, and fragrant; they give me impression of being species hybrids or selections, and don't look to me like Multiflora, Wichuriana, Banksiae, or warm climate roses (I could be wrong, of course).

The plant itself, growing in the usual mess of grass and weeds. This is the smaller of the two I have. It blooms fairly late in the season. It grows happily in heavy clay.

The flowers: double, buds pale yellow and small blooms opening with some yellow in the color fading to white.

Young canes are red; leaves large, pointed, and glossy; the rose is ferociously thorned. Growth suffers from cane girdler, but the rose makes abundance of new canes to compensate. It's a vigorous, handsome plant.

A second shot of the flowers and buds. I think this rose sets hips but am not sure.

I welcome suggestions as to the possible identity of this rose.

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User

5 years ago

In my garden,Bobby James grew very upright; it was an ideal tree-climber for this reason-no training necessary! Sadly, it died-overly shallow soil I think. Nor do I remember the flowers as being so...well,"lax"...I mean the clusters on yours seem to sort of "hang down" and that's not how I remember BJ. Probably should replace that,now that you remind me...

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Comments (9)

MetteBee_Copenhagen8b
5 years ago
Could it be a R. Helenae hybrid? The yellow buds remind me of that rose. I'm not sure about the thorns, my hybrid (Lykkefund) is thornless.
jacqueline9CA
5 years ago
I looked up rosa Helenae on HMF - the species, and most of the hybrids are singles, but there is one hybrid (rosa Helenae x Marechal Niel), which is double.

Here is the link:

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.64051&tab=36

Melissa - there are only a few pics of it on HMF, but the leaves do look like your rose, along with the blooms.

Jackie
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Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks, Mette and Jackie. I have R. helenae, and a resemblance has never leapt to my mind, though that may not mean much. Jackie, the rose in your link isn't mine: the blooms are too large and not as double as the ones on my plant. What an interesting cross all the same, so thanks for bringing it my attention. I do have a notion that my rose falls into the class of what I vaguely call the musk roses, a tribe that includes a number of large, handsome, thorny species.
fig_insanity Z7b E TN
5 years ago
This looks like something that would be right down Kim's alley (other than those thorns, lol). If it's not something he's used in breeding, I bet he can ID the general family. So, @roseseek, what do you think?

John
roseseek
5 years ago
@fig_insanity Z7b E TN thanks for the vote of confidence, John. It's obvious a hybrid of SOMETHING, but I, unfortunately, don't know what. It isn't a Banksiae type. I've never messed with Helenae. It doesn't speak multiflora nor wichurana to me. Had I the room and several decades more time, energy and water, it might be interesting to play with...
fig_insanity Z7b E TN
5 years ago
well, rats, lol. Kim, you were my one contribution I had to make to this thread, other than to say I think the rose is lovely. I think those clusters of blooms on the extra-long pedicels are very graceful.
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8 thanked fig_insanity Z7b E TN
roseseek
5 years ago
Sorry about that.
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8 thanked roseseek
Melissa Northern Italy zone 8
Original Author
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
John and Kim, thanks for trying! I hope some other courageous and courteous rosarians will respond with ideas. This should not be a rare kind; it came from cuttings from one of two gardening friends, their own roses conventionally acquired.

P.S. The name 'Bobby James' rose to the surface of my mind and I checked it out on HMF. The flowers aren't double enough, nor do the leaves look right. Who knows how many enormous ramblers there are out there. Another is 'Rambling Rector', which grows in the garden though starved. It's not that either. Another group it doesn't belong to is the Ayrshires: I have lots of those.

John, it is a lovely rose. When I find the time, I'll clear the second, larger plant of the weeds it's tangled in and haul it up on its pergola: it should be a sight. But THORNY.