To start I have no idea why you would not want and use a DW since they sve water and sanitize everything you wash I do all my pots and everything in a DW BTW beverage coolers are often not a size like a DW so that could be tricky. As for the layout I think if it works for you I never like a prep sink directly opposite the range since those are the 2 busiest places in akitchen and unless you have a very wide walkway there a PITA for 2 people to work I am finding it hard to read the plan but I would make sure all walkways are at least 48" I do not like the layout of the cabinets on the fridge wall it looks unfinished since there is not matching height cabinet above the fridge to finish off that wall IMO pullout drawers behind doors are just one thing too many for me a true pullout pantry or 2 is a much better choice and a much easier system to use . Is your designer a cabinet sales person or an actual kitchen designer who is independant of any particular cabient company. There is ahuge difference in the art of designing a kitchen. I see what I assum is the great room but I have no idea of what is going in there . As for the actual kitchen design where are the schematics from the designer showing all the details and making sure the counters run where you want them and what are the counters and the colors of the cabinets and so many items that need to be addressed before you sign off on this design. IMO that kitchen is okay but I think a galley would have been a much more dramatic and functional space and you could have probablt been able to have no upper cabinets and a lot more storgae . Galleys are awesome style of kitchen and whan open to a great room can be stunning in design.

you can put such a variety of stuff in a lazy susan though, like pots and pans!

Ditto everything CP said! :-)

You know, I actually kinda understand not wanting a dishwasher. I had a friend, long ago, who refused a dishwasher when her husband offered to install one, because she found a quiet, calming peace in the repetitive motions of washing by hand. She likened the effect to praying the rosary. She had 7 or 8 kiddos at the time, and said that it was a welcomed task at the end of the day, after all the kids were in bed. <3

I agree with the comments above.

Two major things, whether appliances or sinks should not be opposite each other, becuase you don't want doors opening into each other, or fannies bumping into each other, even kinda almost, regardless of how wide the aisle or how thin you both are :)

You may think you are saving electricity by not using the dishwasher, but you waste a tremendous amount of water by hand washing. And if you are using very little water when you hand wash, please use paper when I come over!

Seriously though, if you have a serious reason to not use the dishwasher, such as you wouldn't put your sterling silver flatware and gilded or hand-painted china and good crystal in the dishwasher, and that is what you eat on regularly, well I understand that, and good for you for eating with your lovely things regularly! I wouldn't put those things in the dishwasher either.

However, as mentioned earlier, it might be difficult to just swap out a beverage cooler for a dishwasher, certainly, a potential buyer might think so. And at some point, you might want to eat with more rugged implements and would appreciate a dishwasher.

Unless you have a different reason for not using a dishwasher. If you think using a dishwasher wastes water you can re-cycle dishwasher water, someone here discussed that a few weeks ago. You can also save your rainwater and re-cycle that.

Another thing for you to think about is if you (or your spouse) are going to be the ones that wash the dishes, at some point you will age and it may be more difficult for you to do the dishwashing due to back and joint issues.

Another thing, unless there is a separate pantry space, from your drawing there does not seem to be much overall cabinet space. There certainly wouldn't be for me. Please think very carefully about reserving an entire wall just for windows. You could have a smaller window over the sink, and cabinets on either side of the windows. You need space for foodstuffs, dishes, pots and pans serving things, absolutely everything.

I would look around your current kitchen and measure every single linear inch of space you are using now for all your things and food. And if you are feeling the least bit crowded add more linear feet to the storage that you need in your new home.

Sometimes we think we are going to go minimal and then we don't.

I just bought a little egg separator from OXO because lately I am getting bits of egg shell when I crack eggs. I don't know if it is my old eyes or old fingers, but there it is! Who would have thought I'd ever need more kitchen gadgets at this stage!

Also, you might want to be able to store your small kitchen appliances too, rather than clutter up your counter with them.

I do agree that the top of the cabinets would do well being the same height.

A simple inexpensive solution would be to build a simple open wooden box painted to match your cabinetry or of the same wood type as your cabinets to serve as a storage shelf for serving pieces or teapot or tureen, etc over the refrigerator and the pantry, if you can't build the pantry taller.

Thank you everyone! I will rethink the dishwasher.

This is what we and our designer came up with on paper, and I used an online program to mock it up -- we are a bit stuck right now between choosing a cabinet maker and bringing our plan to their designers. So I want to be able to present them what I want instead of them telling me what they think I want. This is what we've come up with so far.

The cabinets will all be the 40" height -- I forgot to add the one over the fridge and extend the pantry up that high.

And, I am one of those crazy people who likes to wash dishes -- especially since my sinks have a great view! :)

When you say "our designer," is your designer a kitchen designer?

It seems a bit odd to me that you have a "designer," but you are the one making a mock-up of the design on computer.

If I were paying a designer, she/he sure as shootin' would be the one drawing up the plans and mock-ups, etc.

It is understandable you want to tell the cabinet maker what you want.

But maybe the cabinet maker has some great ideas you and your designer haven't thought of or even heard of that you might want to consider and incorporate.

I would put in a dishwasher. Fine if you don't want to use it to wash your dishes. Use it as a drying rack. Then at least you still have one when you need or want it, and if your forever home doesn't turn out to be forever, you don't have a substandard kitchen (in the eyes of future buyers). BTW no one will want to put a dishwasher where your mini fridge is. I agree with everyone below to put it next to the sink.
Push your range over to give you more space between fridge and range. Your prep space should be to the left of the prep sink as you're standing there, so make sure you have more space to the left. I would try for at least 3.5 feet but I prefer more.

My designer is working on getting the real plans worked up on her program. I jumped on it myself because I'll be heading offline (travel) for two weeks and wanted to get the Houzz opinions rolling while I'm gone and before she sends our ideas to the kitchen group. Sorry for the confusion.

Uh-oh.

Don't let anything go to the cabinet maker until you see it first.

And even then, make sure that the cabinet maker knows it is just the first draft, not the final one, because maybe the cabinet maker will have some good suggestions.

I wouldn't let anything become final while you are gone, and don't let anything become final without your say-so, and without your seeing it on paper, a full description and a diagram, and measurements and materials, etc.

And before she works up the plans in HER program, we'll ask her to move the beverage cooler next to the sink. Thanks everyone for that suggestion!

Wait, I'm confused.

It sounds like you are working with a builder, and perhaps someone that drafts plans?

Are you working with a proper certified interior designer?

Is this an interior designer you hired to do the entire house?

Is this a design build firm?

Or is this someone who calls themself a designer but really does not have an ASID credential?

Your kitchen designer is supposed to be independent of the builder.

Your kitchen designer is supposed to develop your kitchen plan with you based on what your needs and wants are, and in addition, the kitchen designer presents you with options for things you didn't know existed because that is their specialty, and they are up on the newest inventions and materials, etc.

That is how the kitchen designer is different from a regular interior designer.

In addition, the kitchen designer is supposed to work for you, not the builder, and therefore should be chosen by you, not the builder. And should be paid for by you, and not the builder.

And what do you mean before "we" go shopping for cabinet makers?

Who is the "we?"

I'm sorry if the process we're using isn't up to your standards -- I was hoping for a critique of the cabinet layout and design.

We did have a kitchen designer working with us before Covid put the brakes on our plans - she is no longer working for us. We are using the basis from her plans but trying to improve on them . She was independent, she was addressing our needs, she did present options, she was certified, and yet had a few ideas that looked great on paper but as we had a year to think about them, weren't going to work for us. (Gorgeous "garage" cabinets that once opened, I couldn't reach to close, etc.) She was chosen by us and didn't work out. We are working in a small town with limited options and right now, working with our certified interior designer on a preliminary layout while we're looking at new options for the kitchen designer.

WRT the dishwasher - on average, the two of us have 5 plates a day and a coffee mug. I don't put my All-Clad pots or good knives in the dishwasher either. We're plumbing for a future dishwasher, we just don't want to buy an appliance that will sit unused for years. We are going to move the space for it right next to the clean-up sink.

I appreciate your concerns, I'm sorry that it doesn't meet your approval, but I don't want to continue justifying the process -- would it be possible to focus on the cabinets again? Are three drawers in all the places we have them okay?

OK, so I just have one tiny little suggestion. Change the swing on the upper cabinet door between the range hood and the refrigerator. Good luck with your project!

WRT the dishwasher - on average, the two of us have 5 plates a day and a coffee mug. I don't put my All-Clad pots or good knives in the dishwasher either.

You and my mom are kindred spirits! <3 She has a dishwasher for the first time in her 60 years on this planet (in a rental), and she *hates* it. Literally the only reason she runs it at all is because she doesn't want it to sit unused and mess up any plumbing.

We're plumbing for a future dishwasher, we just don't want to buy an appliance that will sit unused for years.

I am royally confused at the pushback you have received over this, good grief. :-( It's not like you came here going, "You know, I don't want a front or back door. I want everyone to climb through windows instead."

Looking over your plans again, I'd consider making them different depths to accommodate specific items. Just to be sure, for example, that your largest stock pot can fit somewhere convenient. :-D Have you taken inventory of everything you have and planned out exactly where it's going to go?

Edited to add:

Change the swing on the upper cabinet door between the range hood and the refrigerator.

lol I had thought of that, too!

And then I thought, "Wait, if I'm taking a glass out of that cabinet, is it better to swing it away from the fridge or toward it?" Mine currently swings so that it rests against the side of the fridge, and I'm not sure if it would be better the other way?

I do like the symmetry of it swinging the other way, though, for sure. It frames the range hood better. :-D

O.D.D., good catch on the issue of the glasses being in the cabinet next to the fridge!!! I didn’t think of that! On the other hand, there is the symmetry thing. And since I tend to be a wee bit obsessive about things like that, I would personally probably sacrifice function for form. But that is up to the OP to decide! 😉

I would lengthen the island and move the prep sink down closer to the fridge, so that it isn't directly across from the range.

I know a few of you have mentioned the sink being directly across from the range. Thank you! We actually thought about that. It is 48" across. Also, and this is the big one... I never stand directly in front of the stove while I'm cooking. Never. I am always off to the side. In fact, that's a problem in our current house because where I always stand is blocking the trash and silverware drawer. With a 36" wide range and a small prep sink, and usually just me in the kitchen, I don't think it's a big problem but thank you! It's things like this that make every kitchen design an individual plan -- and I appreciate that how I like to work in a kitchen isn't the same as everyone else.

WRT the dishwasher - on average, the two of us have 5 plates a day and a coffee mug. I don't put my All-Clad pots or good knives in the dishwasher either.

I always put my All-Clad pots in the dishwasher and they always come out clean and are fine. I don't put my good knives in but do put in my less expensive ones that I'm not concerned about.

We're plumbing for a future dishwasher, we just don't want to buy an appliance that will sit unused for years. We are going to move the space for it right next to the clean-up sink.

Like you, without my pots and pans, we rarely have more than you mention to put in the dishwasher. If I'm not cooking, I run the dishwasher maybe every 2-3 days and will just do a pre rinse so it doesn't smell. Now having said that, you have to do what works best for you!

As for the stove, if you do the larger drawers instead of the too narrow ones at 30" and 24" (remember you can always divide a larger drawer on the interior and trust me I love my larger drawers for my pots, pans, glassware, baking stuff, etc!) then the stove will automatically be off center of your prep sink. Problem solved.

cpartist -- years ago I had a roommate put one of my smaller saucepans in the dishwasher and it caused a discoloration and clouding to the surface of the aluminum I don't want to repeat that! And honestly, thank you for understanding that we want to do what works best for us. :)

I'm going to rethink the larger drawers and play with that in my mock-up.

I just enjoy the process of creating these plans and looking at the 3D renders, so thanks for humoring me on my attempts!

I just reworked the cabinets so on the stove wall there's the corner unit, then a 24" and then a 36". Do the uppers work with that? The vent hood will be a custom steel that will fill the space between the cabinets - minimal and dark, to blend in with our dark slab cabinets. And I swapped the dishwasher-space-holder and the 18" on the end on the sink wall.

Leslie- This is not about anything you do or plan not meeting with my approval, if that is what you think, you misunderstood my comments.

So many people here have gotten into situations with their builders where their needs and wants have not been met, and a large part of it has been because they have not fully understood everyone's exact job title and qualifications and relationships to each other.

If you are happy with your plans, then go for it.

You still have two smaller 24" drawer cabinets on the bottom. Very little fits in a 24" drawer. It was the mistake I made in my condo years ago. Get rid of them and just do two 42" cabinets. One on either side of the stove. Your bottom doesn't have to match the top because with the island you won't be seeing both together. The island will block the bottom cabinets.

cpartist, 42" drawers just seem so massive to me. I currently have 36" under my cooktop and it's huge! Is that size commonly used?

I already mentioned this once, but consider the location of your prep sink. If you take everything out of your pantry and fridge, you only have 18" to place it next to the sink, and then you will need to wash it and move it to the other side of your sink to prep it. If that's how you want to work in your kitchen, then it's fine as is. Personally, I like to throw everything on the counter and wash as needed, so having the sink on the other side of the island would be preferable to me (I wouldn't want to have to transfer things from one side of the sink to the other, or have to carry things from the fridge/pantry to the other side of the sink).

Regarding drawer size, I would agree that you should at least get yourself 36", but I can't comment on whether 42" is a good size.

@cpartist I just heard that Barefoot Contessa puts her all-clad in the dishwasher, so I started to as well! The fewer dishes I need to hand wash the better!

I wrote a whole thread along with pictures and it disappeared.

I have 42" drawers, then under my cooktop the drawers are 38" wide and to the right of the cooktop, the drawers are 39" wide. I wouldn't have it any other way as in my old condo my drawers were only 24" wide and it was a pain because it was hard to fit in larger pots, pans and mixing bowls plus everything needed to be stacked. Now with the exception of my glass cookware which is in the right side drawers, I have room for everything without having to constantly stack it all.

BTW: No one notices if the top cabinets line up with the lower cabinets. Not here, or even on my prep sink wall.

Here are pictures of my top two drawers on either side of the cooktop.

All-Clad will do fine in a dishwasher. They're stainless steel not aluminum. No discoloration. But I'd hand wash a pan or anything else I may need again if the dishwasher doesn't get run everyday.

You mentioned having pull outs inside the pantry…keep in mind that you will need to preform two separate tasks to look for anything! I would prefer deep drawers on the bottom and layered shelving (inside cabinet fronts) on the top.

Thanks everyone!!! We've added 6" to the end of the island, so there will be 24" on that side of the prep sink. And as I mentioned, we're moving the bev. center/DW placeholder next to the sink, and plumbing for its future use.

Thanks again -- we're reading each and every comment and working through both sides of each decision. The input and opinions are truly heard and appreciated.

And yes, All-Clad does not discolor. In fact it cleans better in the dishwasher than when I have to do it by hand.

I also put my All-Clad in the dishwasher to no ill effects, but mine's all the classic/stainless steel (d3/d5, I don't know what they're calling it now). I don't think I would put any of the non-stick coated ones in there.

The aisle between the island and the sink wall shows that it is 33”, yet the other side of the island is around 6’. I would also increase the size of the island and center it so that you have 48” on all sides. I was also thinking increasing the counter space between the refrigerator and the stove to 36”, but then your stove would not centered in the room (and some people want to maintain the symmtery). Also, I am assuming that you willl have the cabinets (or filler piece) fill up the entire wall, its just not shown here.

We're going to slide down the island so its 4 feet all around, and then there will be more space to the left of the prep sink. Thanks for the great suggestions!

I don't think I can add much here, but these are great resources, if you haven't read them:

NKBA guidelines

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

I often read that a sink and range shouldn't be back-to-back. If you read the 'Kitchens' thread above, you'll find a breakdown of the time spent on each task--on average, we're all different. More time is spent prepping, than cooking (or cleaning up), and we usually spend more time slicing/dicing/chopping items than rinsing them at the sink, so where do we spend more time? To one side or the other of the sink, back-to-back with the range. Center your sink, if that will make you happy, and feel OK about it. :)