What does "The plants have drainage" mean? How do you determine when it's time to water? Is the water supply you use to water the plants routed through an ionic exchange water softener (uses salt)? Are you fertilizing regularly? with what? what are the NPK %s? The grow medium appears to be very water-retentive, which is likely causing or facilitating the chlorotic foliage, but let's see what answers to the questions above reveal.

Al

Hello thank you for responding. To further clarify the drainage point the pot has holes at the bottom and a dish. I use tap water for watering so I am unsure about the NPK percentages, but I can use filtered water moving forward if you think that would be better. I have only had these plants since June (so ~ 3 months) and have not fertilized them, how often do you recommend? Thank you again for your time.

what is that muck you have them planted in ... MG potting soil or something..

when is the last time they were repotted ...

imo.. its not a fert issue.. and you have to solve the watering issue.. and let them get over that stress before you start fert'g them ... they are stressed.. not hungry ...

it looks like all the lowest oldest leaves... some of this can just be age.. no plant holds leaves forever ... when is the last time you had to remove old leaves ....

and what do the growth points look like.. stressed plants can sacrifice the older leaves.. to protect the growing points to some extent.. which them brings us back to a watering issue ...

can you tip it out of the pot.. and LOOK at the roots ... maybe its too big.. but if not.. give it a look ... id say get some pix.. but your would need a couple more hands to accomplish that ... we need to know if there is moisture down where the roots are.. not the surface.. where there arent any roots.. and we will also see if they are rotted ...

one last question.. if all was well.. why did you change your watering pattern???

ken

Helenie - I asked the questions about fertilizing because certain fertilizers, especially those with NPK %s that bear no resemblance to the ratio at which your plant actually uses the nutrients could easily cause the symptoms shown in the images. Since you haven't fertilized, let me say that you should be. You cannot depend on the grow medium alone to provide either the volume or array of nutrients your plants need to grow normally. This is important, so ask about it, as low fertility causes the plant to steal nutrients mobile in the plant from leaves, after which leaves are shed. This might or might not be happening to your plant, but it appears the more serious threat is over-watering.

If you had a rhythm going where you watered every X-number of days during the summer, the decrease in day length and light intensity would dictate a need to increase the intervals between waterings as fall progresses to winter. Too, the advice to "water when the top inch or two of the grow medium feels dry to the touch" is so widely parroted that people have begun to think it must be good advice. It is, if the pot holding a planting is 5" deep or less. For deeper pots, it's pretty much a recipe for over-watering. A pot 10" deep can have 6" of 100% saturated soil at the bottom of the pot when the top 2" of the soil is dry to touch. That is not an appropriate time to water. It's far more important to know what the moisture levels are deep in the pot than what they are at the surface; this, because roots near the surface serve pretty much only as plumbing and anchorage. The best way to monitor moisture levels deep in the pot is with a wooden tell. See below.

I use tap water for watering, ...... but I can use filtered water moving forward if you think that would be better. You don't necessarily need to use filtered water, but you do need to avoid water that has been "softened". Softened water uses sodium to replace calcium and magnesium ions in your water. Both sodium and chloride ions are essential in only minute doses for normal plant growth, and both very quickly become toxic to plants at the level supplied by softened tapwater. If you have access to water from a reverse osmosis filtering system, that would be great for plants.

I have only had these plants since June (so ~ 3 months) and have not fertilized them, how often do you recommend? How often you should fertilize depends on your watering habits and the grow medium you're using. It would probably be a good idea to continue discussing your plants on a more holistic level, meaning looking at the whole of the care regimen as opposed to focusing on only over-watering, though I do think that is where your focus should be at this point.

Using a 'tell'

Over-watering saps vitality and is one of the most common plant assassins, so learning to avoid it is worth the small effort. Plants make and store their own energy source – photosynthate - (sugar/glucose). Functioning roots need energy to drive their metabolic processes, and in order to get it, they use oxygen to burn (oxidize) their food. From this, we can see that terrestrial plants need plenty of air (oxygen) in the soil to drive root function. Many off-the-shelf soils hold too much water and not enough air to support the kind of root health most growers would like to see; and, a healthy root system is a prerequisite to a healthy plant.

Watering in small sips leads to avoid over-watering leads to a residual build-up of dissolved solids (salts) in the soil from tapwater and fertilizer solutions, which limits a plant's ability to absorb water – so watering in sips simply moves us to the other horn of a dilemma. It creates another problem that requires resolution. Better, would be to simply adopt a soil that drains well enough to allow watering to beyond the saturation point, so we're flushing the soil of accumulating dissolved solids whenever we water; this, w/o the plant being forced to pay a tax in the form of reduced vitality, due to prolong periods of soil saturation. Sometimes, though, that's not a course we can immediately steer, which makes controlling how often we water a very important factor.

In many cases, we can judge whether or not a planting needs watering by hefting the pot. This is especially true if the pot is made from light material, like plastic, but doesn't work (as) well when the pot is made from heavier material, like clay, or when the size/weight of the pot precludes grabbing it with one hand to judge its weight and gauge the need for water.

Fingers stuck an inch or two into the soil work ok for shallow pots, but not for deep pots. Deep pots might have 3 or more inches of soil that feels totally dry, while the lower several inches of the soil is 100% saturated. Obviously, the lack of oxygen in the root zone situation can wreak havoc with root health and cause the loss of a very notable measure of your plant's potential. Inexpensive watering meters don't even measure moisture levels, they measure electrical conductivity. Clean the tip and insert it into a cup of distilled water and witness the fact it reads 'DRY'.

One of the most reliable methods of checking a planting's need for water is using a 'tell'. You can use a bamboo skewer in a pinch, but a wooden dowel rod of about 5/16” (75-85mm) would work better. They usually come 48” (120cm) long and can usually be cut in half and serve as a pair. Sharpen all 4 ends in a pencil sharpener and slightly blunt the tip so it's about the diameter of the head on a straight pin. Push the wooden tell deep into the soil. Don't worry, it won't harm the root system. If the plant is quite root-bound, you might need to try several places until you find one where you can push it all the way to the pot's bottom. Leave it a few seconds, then withdraw it and inspect the tip for moisture. For most plantings, withhold water until the tell comes out dry or nearly so. If you see signs of wilting, adjust the interval between waterings so drought stress isn't a recurring issue.

Let me know if you have questions you think I can answer.

Al