If every day you dare to think something no one else is thinking, or every day you do something no one else would be silly enough to do, and every day say something no one else will say, it just might save you from the mindless nothingness of unanimous conformity.

Al

Or just ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ ♯ 🎼 🎵 🎶say what you want to say, let the words fall out. I want to see everyone be brave.

I went to move my Dracaena back inside for the winter and low and behold the pot was split with roots hanging out just like some of my Sansevieria do at times. Wow, who would have known.

Jailbreak @ Stush's place! LOL!

No.

He seems to be the only one who's so concerned about this; it's pretty clear others seem unconcerned. Especially among those of us who actually DO grow these Sansevieria plants. Does he?

I understand. Some thing new is always hard to accept. Still, looking at Aloe and Haworthia and they took plants out of it into new species and they do interbreed so what do they consider in making them the same?

Another one to accept is Agave. Now all Manfreda and Polianthes (tuberosa) is now as Agave.

So Mangave is simply Agave. I still keep mine separate in classification.

The common Tuberose is now simply Agave amica.

Concerned about the plant? The plants have no idea what we are calling them. Everyone who has commented here probably has at least 1 kind of Sansevieria, and many of those plants are probably older than the geneticist who claims to have renamed our plants.

Mike's post calls to mind why I get so annoyed at the bureaucrats we too regularly encounter. To the bureaucratic mind, the outcome (in this case that that someone else actually knows what you're talking about) is of no concern. That procedures are followed exactly, all the 't's are crossed and the tittles precisely placed above the 'i's is everything. Every bureaucrat must make our lives miserable in order to justify their existence. "You need to fill in this box ...... and oh, you forgot to enter the date here, and this part needs to be initialed. When you finish the form, wait for your number to be called again." When the number gets called again, the new bureaucrat offers, "Sir, did you not know this form needs to be notarized before we can do anything with it." I reply, don't you have a notary here?" to which the new helpful helper replies, "Sorry sir, you just missed her, she's left for the remainder ......" Sound about right?

Al

Amen Al!! sounds alot like going to the BMV…😩

Lol - that's exactly what I was thinking about while ranting.

Al

I hate it but I have to admit in the long run, it is better to be put in the right order and not popular order. But like I said, I hate it and will not follow it if I have a choice.

It reminds me of the plant Nazi's who insist that everything must be referred to only by it's binomial name. I think some wise invented the confusing common names for plants so we would have to ask for more clarity or clear up any confusion they cause. I wonder how many interesting people I've met because they dared to learn only the plant's common name? I'd bet a good number!

Al

2015!?! I'm out of the loop....as usual....this is the first I've heard of this.

Does this mean "sans" can be crossed with dracaenas?

(fingers crossed :) )

Didn’t take long to get to Godwin’s Law.

Can't say all crosses are possible but there is one already one cross patented 2013.

Sansevieria × Dracaena plant named ‘SUDRASAN01’

Thank you! Unfortunately the only picture I could find was the balck and white picture on the patent paperwork :( ....so, it's kind of hard to tell what it actually looks like...2013, you'd think they'd be all over the place by now. These plant breeders seem to be pretty lazy...they need to get on the ball :D!

I wanted to try my hand at a cross but none of my Dracaena has ever bloomed before. I have blooms on almost all my Sansevieria.

Good ol' Godwin. I guess the law will persist as long as there are authoritarian bullies of some type hanging around somewhere. There seems to be a bumper crop of them lately.

Sansevieria can be defined as a sub type of rhizomatous Dracaena from the African continent, people understand clearly.

Nothing wrong still using the term to avoid confusion, the name Sansevieria is not confused with any other Dracaena. Is it?

When I first became interested in plants about 48 years ago, these plants were called Sansevieria. I don't much care WHO decided the name should be changed. They will always be Sans to me. Don't like it: Don't read my comments.

Many, many, many plants are known by multiple names, officially so. Heck, most of us are known by multiple names. And don't forget, botanical names DO get changes over the years, sometimes, multiple times. Sansevieria, Dracaena, a rose is a rose is a rose. It matters less what you call them, than how you cultivate them.

I like the information of adding items together but maintaining their original names, not to remove them. If that fractures Dracaena then so be it. Look at the big family of Euphorbia with completely different growing conditions. From big leaf tropical's to desert cactus looking.

Curious, do they think Sansevieria has different unrelated lineages descended from Dracaena? They look similar because of similar environments and they have trouble sorting them out? Dumping them all back to Dracaena may be temporary., but they would have to start a new genus for some.

I just don't see any confusion here for anyone, casual or scientist, referring to this distinct type of plants as Sansevieria. Calling them all just Dracaena is not very helpful to most.

hmm, eww, no, these are not what i grow.

Call it whatever you are used to or what you like :-) Plant names get changed all the time, only changes are typically not well publicized outside of academic horticultural or botanical circles and take years before they filter down into retail or hobby gardener usage. And by that time, they could be changed again....it happens. And more often than one might think. I know of a conifer that has been reclassified at least 4 times in the last 20 years or so and I doubt many refer to it by its revised nomenclature. It is just not that big a deal.

And FWIW, the "old" name will always be an accepted synonym so still valid to refer to it under that designation.

I just learned that Philodendron bipennifolium (aka., Philodendron selloum) was reclassified in 2019..

Now, they are Thaumatophyllum bipinnatifidum. Is this how botanists entertained themselves during the COVID years?

Don't even how to pronounce that, LOL.

I so wish there was a downvote option here for people who misspell a genus name in the title of their post.

Not misspelled, old version which is still acceptable.

Ahh, but it IS misspelled!! The OP labeled the plant in question as "SanseRveria" and it should be spelled "Sansevieria".

Yep, sure is.

You have to figure FLF Mike, his face greasy from diving into a batch of freshly-trolled provender, is thinking up his next scheme to alternately bewitch, bother, and bewilder* us.

I learned today (via Wikipedia) that Sansevieria** trifasciata 'Laurenti' is the most common Sans. in cultivation. Also, Sans use CAM! They don't need to be no stinkin' Crassula to do the CAM - who knew!

* I highly recommend the Ella Fitzgerald version

**Always

I can confirm that TEAM SANSEVIERIA quite possibly found a new species in Tanzania, and what did they call their new find (not that plant explorers know anything, right?)? They called it a new Sansevieria. Thanks to Barry Yinger for this photo and its seedpod celebration.

Can anyone possibly explain to me how exactly one becomes a taxonomist? I'd assume they start out as botanists then specialize as their career progresses.

Is there one governing body with say a "Dracena" department and their determination is the final say?

Is there one guy at the top of the department whose call it is? Or are there endless meetings and discussions and a vote?

Was there a Dracena people vs. Sansevieria people stand off? Backroom deals for proxy votes? Alliances? Is there world wide cooperation or little factions in each country each hoping to put themselves on the taxonomy map?

Or is it one person somewhere who has invested years of study into something like differences in stamens and submits a paper to ask for reclassification? WHO do they submit a paper TO?

I've always been curious about the actual bureaucratic process behind reclassification- who exactly made this decision? In what exact setting was the decision finalized?

I need details- mainly who decides and where this all takes place.

One thing I can say is; this stupid topic has kept the sans forum going thru this normally quiet time here.

I can't answer who but rules of nomenclature says old name always takes place when plants are grouped together in one species. Dracena is way older then Sansevieria so it takes precedent. Some one some where proved that they are related and can cross pollenate each other and have furtle offspring.

The same can be said of the family Aloaceae but they keep dividing it up into different species like Aloe, Haworthia, Gasteria, Tulista, Gonialoe and hybrids between them; Gasteraloe, Gasteri, Gasterworthia and so on.

The species Agave just added some new plant groups into their classification. Manfreda and Polianthes (tuberosa) are now just Agave. So the hybrid Mangave is now just Agave as well.

I personally don't accept the new groupings and for hobbyist it makes it more confusing. I am keeping my names the same old way.

Those are good questions, Cearbhaill. It's the same folks, same bully mentality, who will tell you to believe what they are telling you, not what you see with your own eyes.

You're not supposed to notice that there have been no new cures to diseases, just medications that folks can take for the rest of their life (or until the class action lawsuit), but scientists have plenty of time to play with plant names. A disappointing, unhelpful use of perfectly good brains and expensive educations. I continue to encourage them to do something worthwhile with genetic info. Curing diseases would be a great and worthy place to start, or in another area, finding a new source of clean energy.

Most people do what they like to do not what's most needed or hard to do.

"It's the same folks, same bully mentality, who will tell you to believe what they are telling you, not what you see with your own eyes.

You're not supposed to notice that there have been no new cures to diseases, just medications that folks can take for the rest of their life (or until the class action lawsuit), but scientists have plenty of time to play with plant names. A disappointing, unhelpful use of perfectly good brains and expensive educations."

A rather uninformed viewpoint about what taxonomy is :-) I'm not sure where the issue of bullying came from but it doesn't enter the picture at all. Plant taxonomists have nothing to do with discovering the cures for diseases - one has nothing to do with the other - and they are not "playing" at all!! It is a very serious endeavor and those that qualify will hold at least a Masters in botany or biology. And understanding the relationships that exist among plants and how the plants are grouped only furthers our understanding of the natural world....a topic many of whom appear to have minimal understanding of!

I really have trouble understanding why anyone would get so incensed at the renaming of a plant or group of plants after the discovery that their phylogenetic similarities were stronger or more closely related than originally thought. Scientific discoveries in all kinds of fields are made on a daily basis and many will change the way we look at natural phenomena so they ARE important, as are the accompanying taxonomic changes that identify these discoveries and relationships.

It's pretty much as gardengal says. I personally know several botanists, most of whom are taxonomists. All of them (those that I know) have a PhD.

Often one, or a bunch of taxonomists will get together to study particular plants. They look at and study in depth plant specimens from herbariums. They check them at a microscopic level, sometimes using electron microscopy. Sometimes it includes DNA studies. Drawings are done highlighting different aspects of the plant. They research the existing literature about the plant. This is then put together in a paper which is publlshed in a scientific journal. Once published other scientists can give it the thumbs up, or down.

About 150 herbariums worldwide work together with a central point where the accepted data is recorded, that's the Kew Gardens herbarium. They keep all the records and also have a website, Plants of the World Online, where you can look up the latest data. It's only a summary but has references where you can look further.

That system isn't designed for nuseries or home gardeners. Although, many taxonomists are home gardeners. But it does make accessible the latest scientific research.

They are just trying to make sense of it all, science isn't the enemy. It is really not renaming, it is un-naming. They are saying that the Sans branch of Dracaena is not a clear defined branch, it is more complex, so they clumped Sans all back into the Dracaena genus. Sansavieria is a perfectly fine name to use, a type of Dracaena plant.

Dracaena is the correct name to use though not sanserveria

Mike, if you wish to be taken seriously perhaps ensure your information is correct. That includes spelling.

Like I said before; Only good this post is doing is keeping this forum alive thru the winter.

Quote; I'm no physicist but I know what matters'. Popeye the sailor.

A presumption has been made about my education and level of information. I reject the premise that a particular degree is required to form an opinion. I said nothing in rejection of science and did not proclaim it to be anyone's enemy, not even close. I am not now, nor was I then, incensed. But what if I was? So what? The incensed don't matter? I'm amused and having a conversation. My comments are offered in the calmest of demeanors, I promise. I even admit to giggling at a couple of the comments. There is nothing to be gained by turning the discussion into one about me or anyone else making a comment. But if that is interesting, have at it. I reject the premise that my opinion is incorrect or does not matter because I'm unqualified to form it, or that anyone else should be put into that category.

I maintain the opinion that it is a waste of time to re-do something that is not made better by the renovation. I continue to non-conform. Nobody has offered an explanation of why plant renaming is necessary, why genetic info should be the basis upon which is manifested, and/or the potential benefit(s) thereof. The comments have been about the science, not the practical application of it. Yes, it's wonderful that info has been gained. No, it's bad to rename plants because of that - in my opinion. It's a silly, arcane issue, but does make for an interesting discussion.

My comments will remain in the realm of the issue at hand, not personal.

Stush, "Most people do what they like to do not what's most needed or hard to do." I have not found this to be true for most people. But that's not really the point I was trying to make. I want to encourage the scientifically-inclined to put their time and effort into the most beneficial enterprises. Nobody else is going to be the one to cure diseases. Scientists rock! Especially when the results of their efforts are of some benefit.

Seems that the most important discoveries are made by accident or by chance. Some of the brightest people I have ever known was unknown to most. Fame came much later in death.

I think Mike should go by "The Fiddle Leaf Ficus Guy", otherwise people might think he doing something weird eating figs.

Sansevieria

Well seems the jury is not in yet. May be two different sub genus.

This is a good watch on U-Tube;

Robert Webb of Arid Lands Greenhouses; The Genus Sansevieria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9iaNT_e-Wo

This is such a fun thread to come visit occasionally. Fortunately, the never-ending array of comments keeps returning it to its "top spot" on the roster. And it's fun to read the would-be experts and the bullies and those who DEMAND that we all use Dracaena and not Sansevieria. It's good for a laugh, for a moment of down-time. But for those of us who genuinely cherish and love our Sans and are serious about them -- our "useful time" is, of course, better spent taking actual CARE of our plants. So -- that's what I'll go and do now!

Robin, Like I said before, Just when things go very slow this time of year this thread pops up. Love it.