Post photos of what you have now as well as a detailed floor of the space.

I am thinking about doing something similar with my kitchen and dining room. The thing I’m finding is that joining 2 smaller spaces does not always equal one really large space. What I mean is, in your old dining room, you are wanting to add a wall of cabinetry plus a large island that seats 6, all in a space that you describe as barely big enough for a table and 5 chairs. Maybe you can, but maybe you can’t fit it all in.

Islands need a certain amount of space around them for movement, and seating requires even more room. To make countertops and cabinets usable, you need space between them and the island. You also have to consider traffic routes within the room and leave space for those.

That’s why the experts here ask for measurements and layout drawings. There are certain minimum widths for work aisles to assure a comfortable environment. They know the numbers and can tell whether your plans will work or not.

I'm old and old fashioned, but I can't imagine having no table. My husband and I usually eat at the island (so we can watch tv, of course) but for visiting with family and friends, there is nothing like sitting around a table. And getting out of the kitchen!

I must admit my formal dining room does get enough use but then we have a second table within the kitchen where we gather to laugh, share and enjoy a good meal. Eating at an island except for quick meals seems to undermine the value to family and friends sharing a meal. IMO raising kids requires some face time where manners are learned and food experiences are explored. Eating together is an important part of strong family dynamics.

I'd think twice about your plan if the dining area is the only place for a dining table. Having all meals at an island might work for you now, it may not always work. Island seating is a problem for very small children, the elderly and disabled folks. You and other family members will not always be young and able -- life catches up with all of us. And what about holidays and entertaining? Be sure to factor future needs into your design.

That said, a former owner of my current home took down the wall between the original tiny kitchen and dining room, and it was a smart thing. The room still has space for a table and chairs (no island) with a bit of room to expand the table when needed. When I remodeled I was able to extend the kitchen several inches into the dining area which gained me a bit of extra counter space and a much-needed wall pantry. I also added some beautiful cabinetry in the dining area for extra storage. The space is still quite small but very functional and attractive. A good kitchen designer can help you figure out a good layout. I've learned that in small spaces inches matter. Good luck with your project.

Depending on the size and configuration of the space, you can have an island and comfortable dining.

You cannot do away with a table height eating place. Thats completely dysfunctional for a huge amount of people. That might be the baby in the high chair or gramma falling off the stool. But most people are not as comfortable at counter height as at table height. They’re just too polite to say so.

We need to see a to scale plan and a lot more info too.

Your kitchen looks like a good candidate for @Maureen's suggestion of an island table combo.

I would go for it in that space but move your range to the right of sink.

looks good, however that island won't seat 6. recommendation is for 2ft for each person.

I think you need to really understand how your family functions. I lived in a home for 20 years with no dining room table. I had an 8' peninsula and a casual family room with a large stone coffee table. I never missed having a dining room or a dining room table, but our lifestyle was not typical - we had 2 adults (my husband and I), no kids and ran a business with 8 employees out of the home. We were also in Southern California and often ate outside at the table on the patio.

My new home has a dining table and in 4 years I can count the number of times it has been used for a meal. I guess I got used to not having one. Live by myself and have seating for 8 on my current patio (not ideal for PA winters, but works in the summer.) Most evenings I either eat by myself or have a friend over and we usually either go outside in the summer or sit on the sofa by the fireplace in the winter.

My sisters both use their dining tables every day - one has counter seating and seldom uses it the other has bar height seating and I have never seen anyone sit at the bar.

If I ever get my renovations completed and can start having family gatherings at my home I may see my table getting more use.

Counter height and bar height are difficult for people as they age. Counter height worked fine for kids after about age 4.

Our formal dining room is a playroom for our kids with a couch in it. That's what works best for our family. You should do what works best for your family. I want my entire house to be functional & not just a space that sits there looking pretty, but gathering dust.

Do you have a table somewhere else that you could use for meals? I just can't imagine only having a counter-height area to eat. I avoid counters and bar-tops at restaurants. I'm not old but I am 5'3" and find those heights very uncomfortable for me.

We use our table every day for 2-3 meals. The peninsula seating gets used a few times a week.

I actually use my dining room often. I have an eat in kitchen and there are just two of us at home but, we have family dinners at least once a month. We also have old fashioned dinner parties with friends.

I am probably showing my age when I say this: We sit down to a set table with serving bowls and platters every night.........at least we will again if I ever get my reno done.

I wouldn't do it. I would put a nice table in that space instead. This will give you much more flexibility. And, a tabletop can also be used for cooking tasks if there is an occasional countertop crunch like with making large batches of Christmas cookies.

You have to think of your family, but you also have to think of resale. Many people, me included, wouldn't even look at a place without room for a dining table.

We just got rid of our dining space for island seating. We had an island (no seating) and space for a table/chairs. The table took up too much space & 99% of the time it's just 2 of us. The new island seats 4.... 6 in a pinch. It looks better & it really opens up the space. I know, it won't work for everyone, but we love it. We live in the city, our house isn't huge - the first floor is 600 SF (kitchen, living, entry, powder rm), using a huge chunk of space for a table we rarely used wasn't worth it. Thanksgiving is the only time we need extra seating, I have room for a folding table/chairs, we'll make it work.

"...and often ate outside at the table on the patio."

So you DO have a table space - and you often used it. So you did need a table.

In your case the table space that you used often happened to be outside, but not everyone lives where they can do that. If you lived in the north east, you wouldn't have the option most of the year.

My point is that regardless of where you have the table, most people need space for a table.

Read between the lines of those who are advocating for no table space whatsoever for you. They're usually single or maybe two people, many actually do have table space elsewhere for themselves (either outside or formal DR that they don't use often), etc.

If you fall into their categories, then maybe no table will work for you. For me, it wouldn't work and, if I was looking for a house, the lack of a table space would be a deal-breaker (yes, even in this hot seller's market right now).

Do you have children? Counter-height and taller is not good for young children or older adults (your parents and/or grandparents), as has been pointed out above.

The island you show only has seating for 3 -- but we cannot see everything and what's missing is KEY to knowing if your idea will work. What's behind the seats? How do you plan on getting 2 or 3 more seats in the island? Each seat needs:

• 24" of linear space
• 15" of clear leg/knee space/overhang
• Two seats cannot share a corner since two sets of legs cannot occupy the same space under the overhang nor can two sets of arms/elbows/whatever occupy the same counter space.

Oh and your aisles may be 3" narrower than the #s on your layout. It looks like you're measuring some of them cabinet-to-cabinet instead of to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest -- appliance handles, counter overhangs, etc. In particular b/w the island and the sink wall (assuming the dotted lines are the counter overhang). At best, it's 36", 6" narrower than the minimum recommended of 42".

It also looks like that space on the right (picture, or bottom on the layout) is a door, so that needs to be taken into consideration as well. Don't crowd the door as traffic needs to be accounted for. If you put seats on that side, then you should have 54" or so b/w the island and the door to allow for someone to be seated at the island while others are trying to use the door.

So, what do we need?

• A fully-measured layout of the spaces under consideration (your layout only has a partial set of measurements, most of the key measurements are missing)

--AND--

• A sketch of the entire floor.

By "fully-measured", we mean a layout with the widths of each wall/window/door/doorway and the distances between each wall/window/door/doorway labeled. See a sample below. If something cannot be moved or changed, label it precisely on your layout (see post in sample) and tell us why it cannot be moved/changed -- we may have some ideas for you.

The sketch of the entire floor lets us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the home. It doesn't have to be to-scale, but it should accurately show how the rooms relate to each other and should include all interior & exterior doors. In addition, it will help us see how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen. Label the front entry and family entry. The family entry is usually a garage or side entry, but it might not be. It's helpful to know which door you use to bring in groceries.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5972404/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-2020-interim

Here's what I was talking about regarding island seating. One shows what you cannot do in a corner and three options for 6 seats. [There are other options as well (e.g., 4 along the back/long side and 2 along one of the short sides).]

These don't include a "T" shape -- which is essentially a table butted up against the island (so you still have a table, it's just pushed up against the back or side of the island).

Corner seating -- two seats cannot share a corner:

@Buehl - If my outdoor table had been a counter height table it would have been just as good for me. Saying that everyone needs one is like saying everyone's needs are the same. If that were the case we should have one house design that works for every family.

It really depends on how you live. There are many families that never sit down for a formal dinner. There are many tables that are covered in piles of mail, packages that need returned or other sundry items and couldn't be used to serve a meal without an hour of prep.

I have a friend who only has an eat in kitchen with a bar height table and a counter height table in her dining room - she is the shortest member of the family and is 5' 10". Her son is 7'4". They are more comfortable when their knees are not banging on the underside of a traditional table.

I have another friend who lived in a small apt and had only a 36" round counter height table in her home. She had kids and grandkids, but it is what fit best in her small apartment.

Each family needs to look at how they live and determine the best use of space for their lifestyle.

If you don't typically use the dining table there is no reason not to use that space more efficiently.

I think smart people design their homes to fit their needs and not what others dictate.

You can always have something like this for those few occasions where you are serving a holiday dinner.

https://www.crateandbarrel.com/origami-drop-leaf-rectangular-dining-table/s459990?localedetail=US&a=1552&campaignid=12495285721&adgroupid=120645470324&targetid=pla-1234130293114&pla_sku=459990&pcat=FURN&ag=adult&scid=scplp459990&sc_intid=459990&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkubgrpPo8wIVmBitBh3ZhAC6EAQYByABEgKlOvD_BwE

I have an open plan with a galley kitchen across the pathway from the dining area. I had no choice but to make my dining room work multiple jobs. On a daily basis, it is my office or my craft table. When we have company, I store the office away and can seat 8-10 but the fact is, we typically have more company in the summer when we can use our deck as the banquet or buffet area. Even though the other side of the room is a living room with fireplace, TV and comfy seating for at least 5, my guests always hover around the dining area and kitchen. I've stopped fighting it.

Emilyam819 did you mean move the fridge to the sink wall?

Yes