I saw this post yesterday and avoided it because it's problematic on several levels but since nobody else has responded I'll go first and be the rude one...

As a landowner, you have a moral obligation to protect the native habitat by educating yourself on plant species invasive in your area. If I can google "nc invasive plant list" then so can you.

A small grove of flowering trees aka an orchard is beautiful yet you are trying to screen that view. Mown grass under the orchard trees is the practical choice.

This is your home. You will live here for many years. Landscape one section at a time as you can afford good quality plants. Do not use "gas station" plants.

Hire a landscape designer to draw up a plan for you. It costs money, yes, but the results will be well worth the expense. You're in over your head here.

Just an aside but neither golden euonymus (E. japonicus) nor Sunshine ligustrum are considered invasive species. The ligustrum is sterile.

However, I do agree that the orchard is best served by just having meadow grasses and plants surrounding it and any shrubs that may be incorporated nearby be primarily native species or those that attract pollinators. Typically, orchards are not planted for aesthetic purposes :-)

As a landowner, you have a moral obligation to protect the native habitat by educating yourself on plant species invasive in your area. If I can google "nc invasive plant list" then so can you.

Which plants(s) are red flags for you? These are all quite common in my area, except for maybe the Pawnee pecan.

Which plants do you consider "gas station"?

A small grove of flowering trees aka an orchard is beautiful yet you are trying to screen that view. Mown grass under the orchard trees is the practical choice.

Not really trying to screen it; my goal here was to create a gradual height effect instead of going straight from grass to 30' trees.

I kinda-sorta hate grass, it's useless, impractical, and requires way too much maintenance! Plus, I have close to 100 tree stumps in this new area from where I've removed wild trees, and I was hoping to just put in ground cover and not have to worry about removing all of them.

In my dream world, I would build 3 cascading ponds in front of the orchard, too, and only have a very small patch of lawn between the driveway and pond.

Meadow grasses and plants are neither useless nor impractical!! They attract all manner of pollinators and beneficial insects as well as provide them a habitat. And they really only need to be cut back annually, so maintenance is close to zero.

And it is the preferred choice of commercial orchardists so that should tell you something.

Two 30 foot Granny Smith apples is a lot of hard apples. As pies they require a steak knife to cut the pie; even as you're eating it. And they're too dry to make apple sauce. A 30 foot Crab apple is too much pollinator and unless you want to make hard cider is only good to feed the animals. Any apple tree will feed the animals. Swap one of the Granny Smith's for another apple variety you like.

Two full size peaches will produce a lot of peaches; all of them at the same time. I hope they're two different varieties and both free stone so when you can them they don't look like mush in the jars. Here's a guide to peach varieties. I hope you can find a freestone peach with excellent flavor that ripens at a different time than a second tree. I had a two year old peach from Stark that produced a hundred peaches the 2nd year. I plan next year to graft a variety of peaches to my second tree so they ripen over the entire season; instead of all at once. This year I'm grafting 8 different varieties to a pear tree with the same goal.

Save some room in your orchard so that as your goals change or expand you'll have room for some additions.

I am no orchard expert, but 2 peach trees will produce a huge amount of peaches all at the same time. Have you considered 1 peach and 1 nectarine or apricot instead? Even 1 peach tree produces enough for several households, and all at the same time so you have to do some marathon picking and sharing.

Ikd want blieberry bushes ... they'll be 4-8 feet tall, so a nice midheight, pollinators enjoy them, and they give you more fruit ... they do like acidic soil, so that might be a catch if you have sweet soil ... in which case, I suggest lilacs, lol.

@Sigrid, to be honest, my girlfriend pushed me to buy these Golden Euonymus bushes a few years ago, but I've never liked them and can't find anywhere to put them!! LOL

I was imagining a type of hedge back here because it would give me an official "beginning" to the wild woods, and I would have a stopping point and always know where to remove anything unwanted. And it would be a good hiding place for smaller wildlife (like rabbits).

And since I have these bushes on hand with nowhere to go, and they're easy to propagate, I thought that "behind everything else" would work without having to invest a ton of money :-/

But I get what you're saying about the wall of gold underneath all of the dark green American holly.

Meadow grasses and plants are neither useless nor impractical!!

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9), I think that I misunderstood. When I Googled "meadow grasses" the first result was for Kentucky bluegrass and tall fescue, so I was thinking of just lawn grass. But a little more research led me here:

https://www.ecolandscaping.org/01/designing-ecological-landscapes/meadows/the-top-ten-successful-meadow-species-and-why/

If we're talking Beebalm and Butterfly Weed, I can get on board with that! I wanted them in my other gardens, anyway, but ran out of room.

This is a relatively small "meadow", though, so I have to be cautious of anything that'll spread beyond my borders.

@John D Zn6a PIT Pa, thanks for the tips! I was primarily doing two peaches for pollination, but yeah, that's a LOT of peaches!! LOL So @pricklypearcactus, I love the idea of an apricot to replace one of the peach trees :-D

The local nursery still hasn't gotten back to me on the peach options, anyway. They left me hanging last year, and I'll be more than a little irritated if they leave me hanging this year! I also emailed ediblelandscaping.com last week (someone recommended them on here last year), but they haven't replied yet, either.

Any recommendations on a peach variety, @John D Zn6a PIT Pa?

I also considered a smaller Maekawa Jiro Asian Persimmon:

http://ediblelandscaping.com/buyPlants.php?func=view&id=157

It's hard for me to say what I'll want in the future, but at this point in my life (46) I've never once canned any fruit! LOL My primary goals here were:

1. Eating fresh from the tree (Granny Smith apples are my favorite)

2. Feeding and attracting desirable wildlife (my wildlife is mostly deer, squirrel, wild turkey, rabbits, opossum, the occasional racoon or red fox, black snakes, King snakes, and plenty of birds, of course. "Undesirables" are really just coyotes, moles, voles, and fire ants)

3. Pretty, since it's in the front yard and will eventually become a backdrop to my ponds

4. Not starving to death during the zombie apocalypse (haha; maybe less jokingly, not starving during WWIII)

I specifically picked a crabapple because they're pretty while in bloom, and are apparently great pollinators for the apple. I'll never eat them, the fruit would mostly go to the animals. I had one in a previous home and I know that the blossoms can get EVERYWHERE!!! But this is far enough away from the house and drive that I don't think (read: hope) that it'll be OK. Same goes for the dwarf chestnut; I know the burrs can be a problem, so I'll have this at the end of the orchard and farthest from bare feet.

"A 30 foot Crab apple is too much pollinator and unless you want to make hard cider is only good to feed the animals."

There are plenty of crabapple varieties that are both highly ornamental and produce fruit that is great for fresh eating, cooking, jelly (and many other uses beyond just "hard cider and feeding animals): Centennial, Chestnut, Kerr, Callaway, Transcendent, Dolgo, Whitney, Trailman and Wickson all come to mind, and there are several others.

Reputable fruit tree nurseries will also have some of them available on semi-dwarf and dwarf rootstock, so that they would work in a setting with more limited available space.

I have a Dolgo on G.890 stock (~60-70% of seedling size at maturity) in my small home orchard as extra pollination support for my main apple trees, but it's a really beautiful tree in its own right in bloom, very disease resistant, and the fruit makes a fun snack (if you like things on the tart side).

Jason - Recommended Peaches:

Duke of York Early

Ripens July British, not much more info. Large fruit ripening late July, excellent flavour. An old favourite with good vigour. fruitwoodnursery.com

Eva’s Pride Early

medium to large peach with yellow skin; yellow flesh is has a fine flavor; freestone.

Suncrest Mid Season

A drip-down-your-chin peach. One of the juiciest peaches around, with very firm, fine-flavored, yellow flesh. The bright red skin is simply beautiful. Suncrest is the peach immortalized by the book Epitaph for a Peach: Four Seasons on My Family Farm, by David Mas Masumoto (1995). Blooms later than most peaches; the blossoms can take a frost. This consistent producer originated in Fresno, CA and was introduced in 1959. Freestone. Blooms late, Self-pollinating, but yields bigger crops when planted near a different peach variety with a similar bloom time. Ripens in August. fruitwoodnursery.com

Elberta Aug 23 Mid season

The Elberta peach is the favorite peach tree for home gardeners in the United States! It originated in Marshallville, Georgia, in 1870, where it was grown by Samuel H. Rumph, who named the variety after his wife, Clara Elberta Moore. This variety of tree is famed for producing large quantities of excellent fruit for canning. The juicy, yellow flesh is great for eating fresh, as well as canning and freezing. It is a freestone peach (also known as a melting peach),

Fairtime Late Season

Fine fruit for the very late season. Very large yellow freestone with excellent flavor. Early bloom. Yellow Freestone Flesh scions at fruitwoodnursery.com

O'Henry

Late Season, Long Shelf Life, Yellow Freestone Peach Has Red Skin, Superb Flavor According to Taste Tests, Good Fresh Eating Peach, Unique Sweetness when Firm, Long Hang Time Makes for Convenient Picking

Red Baron Midseason to late season

Grow for Double Red Blossoms The Red Baron Peach Tree is a patented variety of unsurpassed excellence. Not only is the fruit a large, beautiful red, but the tree itself is prized for its large double red blossoms that cover the tree for several weeks in early spring. These delicious 3" diameter fruits ripen over an extended period of time from mid-July to mid-August, and require a low 250 chill hours. Supplies are very limited, so call today to order your Red Baron Peach Tree! scions at fruitwoodnursery.com

The Red Baron I listed mainly for the double red blossoms which is also on an apple called the Niedwetzkyana. The list comes from my want list for varieties to graft to my mature peach tree next winter/spring. It's possible to graft two varieties to one rootstock and it's also possible to plant more than one tree in the same hole. You could then pick one of the trees that have matured some in the big hole and cut scions off your trees so that they're all on one tree.

I must say in my neck of the woods managing to get one or two ripe peaches before the critters gobble them all is quite a feat. I lost my entire crop last year. Admittedly the tree is young and small, but I tried to protect my peaches, but obviously did an inadequate job.

I have two additional concerns: 1) the presence of deer (which will be attracted by the apples) will require serious protection of the trees from trunk-rubbing and allover browsing up to 6 or so feet, and 2) mondo grass in my experience is expensive snd very slow growing. I am familiar with black mondo grass, so if another is more robust ignore my warning.

I made pies with granny smiths. The work just fine. That said, there are a huge variety of apples. Not only a huge variety of flavors, but how long they keep, whether they hold their shape in cooking, when they bear fruit and what diseases they are resistant to. I'd recommend you look for a local orchard with a variety of apples and taste them. You might find a new favorite.

Azaleas and rhodos make good, and often native, shrubs to transition from lawn/garden to woods.

mondo grass in my experience is expensive snd very slow growing.

@kitasei2, when I moved here the former owners had used patches of mondo grass to mark walkways. It looked good, but every year I have to dig it up and split it! I've run out of places for it and thrown a TON of it into the woods, where it just takes root and grows just fine! LOL

I have no idea what the variety is, but this stuff is indestructible. I've sprayed it with Round Up, and I swear you can hear it laugh and say "More! More!" LOL

This is what I was thinking of using, I can probably dig up enough that I've thrown out of the years to fill in at least half of the area. It's not beautiful, but it should be a solid and maintenance-free ground cover to prevent erosion as long as it doesn't negatively impact the growth of the other plants. That's what I wasn't entirely sure about.

As for the wildlife... I've been growing hot peppers for the last several years to eat, and I use a few of them to make a type of semi-organic pesticide (hot peppers, water, and a drop of dish detergent in a blender, then poured in a spray bottle). This works well on veggies, so in theory I could use this on the tree trunks and leaves to prevent too much damage. I don't mind if they take what falls to the ground, of course, but I don't want them rubbing on the trees and killing them!

Azaleas and rhodos make good, and often native, shrubs to transition from lawn/garden to woods.

@Sigrid, I haven't had great luck with rhodos :-( I planted several a few years ago that did great, but ALL of them that I bought last year died! I don't know if it's an issue of something eating the roots or just what's available locally, but I wasted about $300 :-O

Azaleas are doing well, though, and they're great for bees. An azalea hedge would be more expensive than I'd like, but it might be the way to go...

I'm honestly about to get frustrated with the whole thing, my local nursery still hasn't replied and Edible Landscaping replied with an extremely short and unhelpful email.

The local nursery left me hanging last year, too.

I dunno, maybe I should just buy an apple tree and a crabapple tree, a handful of blueberry bushes to fill in, and be done with it. At least these are readily available without having to beg nurseries for help.

https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/prarifire-crabapple-tree?variant=13940884111412

https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/grannysmith?variant=13940764639284

https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/premier-blueberry-bush?variant=31780207493182

https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/legacy-blueberry-bush

Have you read the reviews for that nursery? They do not have the best reputation..........

Just the top result in Google:

https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/fast-growing-trees.com

What do you suggest I read?

Honestly, though, I'm not having any luck with anyone else so my options are getting pretty limited! Late March / early April is the best month to plant trees in my zone, right?

Believe me, I would MUCH rather support a local small business! But that's just not working out.

I figured that I would buy the 1 year warranty, too. My shopping cart is $610, so $64 for a warranty on everything is reasonable; if just one trees dies then it's worth the cost.

Legacy is a mid-late season blueberry and premier is an early season blueberry ... if those are the only varieties that you'll get, double check whether they bloom at the same time in your area. In general, you want to have blueberries that will bloom together for the best production.

Fedco has great prices, a great selection of trees and good quality. You need to order in the fall. Their trees are smallish, but the peach I planted 2 years ago produced one peach the first year and several the second, all of which were highly appreciated (I assume) by Rocky Racoon.

My brother-in-law swears by Nourse. Nourse Farms - The Best Berry Plants since 1932

Catalog Search - Fedco Trees (fedcoseeds.com)

I'd grow a Pawpaw if I were you. I've seen deer munch on wild windfall apples, so have trouble supposing that they will kill a tree with rubbing. And, of course, if you pick up the apples, you won't have the problem. Get a good juicer, it takes a lot of apples to make juice. You want to look at how they work because some are fiddly and designed to make a cup of juice, then need cleaning, which is tedious if you have a lot of windfalls and want to make a lot of juice.

I would not plan a "hedge". I'd plan a mixed border of small trees and large shrubs that would be smaller than the trees in the woods and larger than any garden. You'd want a mix of shrubs, trees, shapes and sizes. When you do it right, it looks natural and makes the woods part of the view.

IN THE SHADE: Gardening with Native Plants from the Woodland Understory – Wild Seed Project

Usually, you can get your money back on plants that die. You have to pay attention to the nursery's guarantee, but if you had a big order of which a relatively small amount died and they are reputable, they might give you a refund past their deadline.

1. I agree with the Fedco opinion. Also I fence any thing I grow against the deer.I use 12 feet of five foot high fencing tied to one post. You can use less fencing, down to maybe 10 feet but then you have trouble shaping the lower branches unless you want it to look like it grew in a vase.

Do you all keep a permanent fence around the fruit trees? I was originally just going to put a chicken wire cage around them while they're small, but then removing it in a few years when it's nice and established. I expect to have plenty of fruit to share, and part of my goal here was to encourage wildlife.

You see, I have 5 acres of land with a little over 1 acre of it cleared in the middle (my house and yard) surrounded by wild woods. When I bought the house there was over 100 acres of wild wood surrounding me, and the wildlife was a huge part of the appeal! But the owners of the surrounding land had it clear cut a few years ago, so now it's a lot more rare to see my deer, turkey, racoons, fox, and opossum. I still see plenty of squirrels and rabbits, though.

I'm finally starting to see them again, although it's a lot more rare than it used to be. So half of my goal here was to encourage them to come to my little sanctuary amongst the clear cut area.

I'd grow a Pawpaw if I were you.

You know, @Sigrid, you're like the 10th person to tell me that! LOL They're common in my area, and relatively attractive. The only thing is, I don't really care for the taste! LOL Although I can imagine that it might blend well with rum :-O

Some pros are:

1. Apparently the bark contains a natural insecticide, so it might help repel ants and other problem insects from the whole area; and

2. Deer don't usually eat them, but racoons, opossums, and foxes do. So it might draw in some of the other wildlife.

So... maybe. They're crazy expensive on fast-growing-trees ($200 for a 5-6' tree!), but I might look locally.

Legacy is a mid-late season blueberry and premier is an early season blueberry...

@BlueberryBundtcake - 6a/5b MA, well blah, I didn't think about that. I was thinking more about having fruit for a longer season.

I know very little about blueberries. Maybe I should just do two Auroras? I read that they're self fertile, but I can get two 2-gallon plants for $90 and get more fruit. Harvest time is August-September, but I can freeze them with no real issue. I mainly use them as frozen treats for the dog and for cobbler, so frozen is fine for me unless there's a reason not to get these?

I also thought about Honeyberry; specifically, Indigo Gem Haskap and Indigo Treat Haskap. I don't know that I've ever had them, but they're in the blueberry family. Would you recommend them? Do they pollinate blueberry bushes? And are they safe for dogs?

The trees‘ fruit and tender growth will be vulnerable to deer as long as they are in resch. The trunks will always need protecting.

Honeyberries are not related to Blueberries at all. They will definitely not pollinate them.

I have 5 different blueberries bushes ... an early-mid, a mid, a mid-late, a late, and a native that kind-of covers a range. The late does not generally have much overlap with the early-mid or mid in bloom or berries, but the others have some overlap. The mid is small, so it may get more overlap when it gets bigger; the early-mid primarily cross-pollinates with the native. All of my varieties are self-fertile, but I definitely saw more berries as I introduced more varieties.

I would definitely choose Legacy and/or Aurora for your area over Premier ... on top of not being self-fertile, it also has a low chill requirement (550 hours), which means that if you have an early warm spell followed by more cold, it could come out of dormancy and then lose its flowers to freeze, which will reduce your harvest. Legacy and Aurora both have much higher chill requirements (800+ hours), so they won't share that issue and actually could potentially work together ...

Here: https://pickyourown.org/blueberry-varieties.php That'll give you an idea of blueberry varieties. It also touches on other berries, including honeyberries.

As for fences, I have 3 of my blueberries within a permanent 3' metal fence, and two of those have bunny wire cages. The third is the biggest and oldest of the 5 and no longer has its cage. The other two do not have a fence but have had various cages around them as they grew (starting with a bunny wire ring and moving up to pea trellis surround); I think we may have taken the cage off one of them last year.

Bunnies and deer are your biggest threats to bushes (and small trees) ... they will eat the tender growth, which can be pretty much all of a young bush (guess how I know ...). Well, them and clueless lawn service employees ... Birds will be the ones sharing your harvest. I recommend metallic pinwheels or ribbons if you want to dissuade them ... they don't like the movement and glinting.

You should contact your local extension. They will probably know your area well and be able to recommend trees, nurseries and what kind of deer protection you need. Also, look around at neighbors. You can plant most plants any time of the year, but new plantings need a lot of water, which makes spring and fall better. Local nurseries have good info, too.

You may be able to find videos from your extension on varoius orchard topics. The UMaine extension has one on growing blueberries. It's good, but if there's one from your state, that might be better.

Yes, definitely look into local extensions. I use UMaine's a lot, but I'm pretty close to Maine. I haven't investigated them much, but you may find NC State or Clemson's more applicable.

i did NOT read all the replies ...

i add just one caveat regarding home orchards .... growing pretty fruit ... requires a spray regimen.. starting with a dormant spray and usually monthly applications thru the growing season .... if you dont do such.. you will probably still get usable fruit ... but you probably wont get pretty fruit ... if you get my drift ...

soooo .... if you think you might be wanting to spray ... you should allow yourself space to walk around your trees so you can facilitate said spraying ... without trampling the rest of your garden ...

also ...most flower petals will not stand up to sprays .... so you might have to sacrifice some flower production due to said spraying ....

ken

"i add just one caveat regarding home orchards .... growing pretty fruit ... requires a spray regimen.."

No, Ken. It doesn't.

Meh. You guys have really discouraged me, I'm really close to scrapping the whole orchard idea and just putting in a few ornamental trees instead.

Maybe a pretty crabapple tree as a centerpiece here, then a Granny Smith in the back yard where it's fenced in and protected. They would be about 300' apart, though, so I'm not sure if that's close enough for pollination.

"i add just one caveat regarding home orchards .... growing pretty fruit ... requires a spray regimen.."

No, Ken. It doesn't.

==>>>

really sah ... hmmm.. in my experience ... if its not bugs.. its diseases ... i got plenty of pie, juice or apple sauce fruit .;.. but nothing that looked like store brought fruit ...

you must lead a charmed fruit life ...

come on jason.. you have to try ... just do it ... the only failed attempt.. is the attempt not made .. you never learn without trying ..

btw.. i dont consider crabs as fruit .. they never need anything to have a pretty bumper crop ... but what do you do with them.. other than feed the birds in winter .. im sure someone adds 50 pounds of sugar.. and makes jelly ... sure.. why not ...

ken

I have grown various types of fruit for many years and I can say in all honesty that I have never sprayed any of them....at any time! Nothing "charmed" about it. Select from the most disease resistant varieties - your county extension service can help you with that - and give them the best possible care. The fruit may not look like it comes from the grocery store but it will be perfectly edible.

There’s also the option of bagging the fruit, which, while labor-intensive, is still manageable in a small home orchard. That’s a pretty easy way to get ”pretty” fruit without spraying, especially if you start with disease-resistant varieties like GG mentioned.

Does it really matter if the fruit is 'pretty' if it is healthy and nutritious? I'm putting in a small home orchard this spring and it might not be as glamorous as some but I'm excited to have good food to feed my family. I think you should talk to local nurseries about what trees do well for your area, and get excited about building your dream garden.

I,m in Jamaica and this my own personal experimental apple orchard setup with wifi irrigation.

Careful taking advice from people who live in different climates. Since I'm in Georgia 7b not far from you I'll give my two cents.

Avoid invasives as mentioned (easy to google search these, remove any invasives you already have)

Low/no-spray fruit for our climate:

No surprise but natives like: Paw Paw, Rabbiteye blueberry, blackberry, muscadine, serviceberry, and persimmon.

Also low/no spray: asian persimmon, asian pear, figs, goumi, chinese chestnut

So many nice native understory trees could go in front of your woods, redwood, dogwood, too many to list, most everything at this site will work: https://www.mailordernatives.com/

Check here too for cheaper in bulk: https://mdc12.mdc.mo.gov/Applications/TreeSeedling/

Good luck with your project