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mrschlab

Ordering windows, please help with Low-E 366 vs. 272!

4 years ago

I've tried looking through past posts but haven't found anything recent that I felt applied to our specific situation. We're getting ready to order windows for our new construction home. I'm trying to understand Low-E glass a little better. Our windows rep says they do all Low-E-366 as standard for pretty much everything in our area these days, and he wasn't very helpful when I tried to dive deeper on the subject. We are right on the edge of climate zones 4 and 5 in a very rural area of Kansas. Our house is basically a rectangle with the long side oriented towards the South (facing 20 degrees East of true South). The area of the glass that we have facing south is 7% of the square footage of the home. We've designed our roof overhangs to fully shade these windows for most of the summer and to be completely unshaded at the Winter solstice. We also burn a lot of wood in the winter (this was one of my husbands must-haves). In our current (smaller) home, our living areas can get very warm when using the fireplace and we sometimes have to open windows in the middle of winter.


My primary concerns with the Low-E-366 are the green tint, the reduction in visible light, and maybe missing out on some passive heating in the winter. Would it be better in this situation to go with Low-E-272 on the South and East facing glass (all East facing glass is under a 15' deep covered porch), and keep Low-E-366 on the West and North sides? My concerns with Low-E-272 are that maybe we'll have TOO much light/heat flooding our house in winter and during the transition between hot and cold seasons. Will it make our house less comfortable? Some of the analysis I've read suggests that it's better to go with all Low-E-366 because you only get passive heating during limited winter daylight hours, and then when the sun is not shining Low-E-366 does better at retaining heat within the home. I think we also lose some UV protection for our furnishings/finishes if we go with Low-E-272. How big is the difference between the two, really? I'm so confused about what to do, and any advice or personal experience with the different glass packages is appreciated! Thank you!

Comments (5)

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    A few glass-only numbers for comparison (all with 1/8" glass):

    Clear glass VT is 80% while 272 is 72% and 366 is 66% Clear glass passes 58% of UV in the 300-380nm range while 272 is 16% and 366 is 5% Fading potential is 75% for clear glass while 272 is 55% and 366 is 43% Clear glass SHGC is 78% while 272 is 41% and 366 is 27%

    and finally U factor (1/2" airspace) for clear glass IG is .48, 272 is .25 and 366 is ,24

    Now what the heck does all that mean??

    First, clear glass only mentioned as a comparison to the coated glass for each area.

    Second, you live in an area of moderately hot summers and moderately cold winters.

    Third, you are concerned about 366 making your house too dark and green but you have been told that if you don't use 366 your house is going to be too hot due to solar gain.

    I would not consider using two different coating on different sides of your home. Sounds good in theory but realistically it isn't worth the effort in your situation UNLESS you have a significant square footage of glass facing west. In that case I would consider using 366 at the very least and consider something with even lower VT and SHGC such as LoE-240 or Quad LoE-452.

    The other option if you did want to take advantage of the southern exposure you coukd by using a high solar heat gain coating such as LoE-180 (not mentioned previously).

    Since you have 7% south glazing with wide overhangs, using 272 facing south will work great in that case. It will allow some solar heat in during winter but not overwhelming. Honestly in your circumstance I would look into 180 and perhaps cut back a little on wood burning on sunny winter days.

    Notice that the difference between U factor on 272 and 366 is .01. Not very much, more than adequate in your environment, but if you needed to improve U factor a bit more you could add a surface 4 coating, something I would not recommend if you lived in Minneapolis, but I wouldn't anticipate any problems where you live.

    Also LoE-272 is not as dark as 366 and it doesn't look green

    To summerize, keep it simple and order 272 for all your windows and enjoy your new home.

    mrschlab thanked oberon476
  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    LowE-272 will be fine.

    "Our windows rep says they do all Low-E-366 as standard for pretty much everything in our area these days"

    I have a good friend around Lawrence KS who just built a home, and their windows are LowE-272. If LowE-366 is "standard", why is there an upcharge for it? The LowE-272 is standard, and maybe you need a different windows rep.

    What brand windows are you looking at?

  • PRO
    4 years ago

    As always...Oberon summarizes information perfectly.

  • 4 years ago

    @oberon476, thank you for the detailed and thorough response! It was very helpful. I've tried looking online myself, but there's so much information and I'm not always sure that I'm comparing apples to apples.

  • 4 years ago

    Mrschlab,


    Oberon476 gives some seriously spectacularly helpful information. I wish he'd come to my house and tell me which manufacturer to purchase from for my upcoming renovation and how to get what I want with my window and door impact glass :)


    I am currently also in the hell of LowE, clear glass or tinted glass decision-making process.


    The previous owners put one SGD (two 3' panels) facing north and two more SGDs (seven 3' panels). They are CWS vinyl frame LowE366 Argon IG units that were installed in 2014/2015 on the east side of our house.


    Bear in mind the remaining impact-resistant windows are clear glass on the west side of the house (go figure). Those were installed in 2009 (my guess from the etching on the glass, I find no permit indicating when they were installed)


    I brought home this luxury vinyl sample; this is how I realized the extent of the change in the color of the natural light coming in through the LowE366-laden SGDs. Because I'm choosing a specific tone on the flooring product, I don't want the color/hue/tone changed by the windows. The LVP is a warm-neutral tone, but not yellow or honey colored LVP. I wanted to see what the LVP looks like on a sunny day, so I took it out back one morning. Then I brought it inside and set it down next to the SGD (with the LowE366). Below are the results.


    (I mention that the LowE366 SGDs were installed in 2014 because I don't know if the LowE366 color changes with time or if the fact that they're IG units has an effect; or maybe in 2014, CWS used an obscure LowE product-- I do not know these answers.)


    Also, keep in mind that the phone camera and subsequent computer image may not be an exact representation of the colors, but to my eye right now looking at the computer screen, the colors are 99% accurate.


    The first photo was taken in the morning sun on the east side of the house in sunny South Florida through the LowE-366 SGD.


    The second photo was taken when I opened the door to go out with natural sunlight on the LVP and rug below it.


    Is the hue of light from the sun coming into the house drastically changed by the LowE366? You be the judge. (I say YES)


    Also, when I look at the LVP in the afternoon on the west side of the house with sun coming in through clear glass, the tone of the LVP is yet again a natural wood tone, just like you see with the door open. I did have to close the plantation shutters on the east-facing LowE366 SGDs to control the experiment so the only incoming light came in through the clear glass of the west-facing windows.


    Hope my pathologically detailed research helps you make your decision :)


    All it helped me do was rule out LowE 366 and plan on shade for my new SGDs and windows.