Back in the 80’s, my father gave me some before I left for college. He said specifically ”I know you don’t smoke a lot of it, but there is some really bad stuff out there and I want you to be safe”. What he meant was that being under the influence of something you hadn’t prepared for increases overall risk. I never finished the bag and never had issues with substance abuse.

I don't personally feel that marijuana is a gateway drug or really has an abuse potential in any sort of physical form. They all also drink moderately, which is probably of more serious concern. I am just thinking that there is not even any pretense that they are just allowed to do whatever they want and they are minors. One of them is starting 9th grade. They probably don't drink moderately for an adult. But they drink moderately for an 8th grader, and the oldest one probably drinks moderately for an adult.

I guess that's replacing the idea of allowing ones underage kids to drink at home where it's safer rather than out at a party somewhere. Not an idea we ever bought into but some parents did.

I call it lazy parenting and enabling but ........

I think marijuana and alcohol are just fine in moderation for adults but I worry about marijuana’s effects on still-developing teenage brains. I have a psychiatrist friend who specializes in emergency psychiatric admissions and who has smoked a lot in her life and continues to do so who worries about the same thing.

IMHO, bad on several levels. First, let's lie and abuse the system because we can. Second, if you use that logic (I am expecting you to do something illicit that can be dangerous), I guess you should stock a liquor cabinet in their bedroom (avoid spiked drinks!) and hire prostitutes too (avoid VD and rape!). So like, no.

Personally, I don't think exposure causes addiction (my gut feel is that is more genetic.) And I accept that kids will be kids and that includes experimentations of all sorts. A parent's job is to educate, set some rules, and maintain a good enough relationship that they seek your help if they find themselves in a bind. And then cross your fingers.

PS in the 80s, my mom expressed curiosity about marijuana and my brother gave her a joint. She put it in a baggie in the freezer where it was for a long time, I can't recall if she ever tried it.

I'm not sure giving them the ability to buy it legally will stop them from using marijuana acquired in other ways. It might, but what if a companion offers some?

Otoh, they could probably resell theirs, saying it's clean.

I didn’t realize that someone under 18 could be issued a Medical Marijuana card legally.

The oldest one is 18, but he gets the supply for the sibling.

I agree with Mtn on every point , but especially concerning cheating the system.

I would also be concerned (in long-term use) of the potential for lung damage.

https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-effects-lung-health

I’m not anti-pot, we partake, but in moderation. 9th grade, wow. Smh. I’m very glad I never had to deal with this when my DD was growing up. Robo and Mtn said exactly my first thoughts.

I think it’s enabling in this situation.

I wouldn't buy them a card, that seems unethical, but I sure would spend time talking about laced illegal drugs. I think the fentanyl deaths are scary.

I know zilch about medical marijuana. Is it dispensed in a smokable form? For some reason, I would have thought it would have been dispensed in a form to be ingested.

My ex-husband's middle son died earlier this year of a fentanyl overdose. The pot he had gotten on the street was laced with it. Fentanyl is fatal, invisible, and omnipresent. I don't have children, so I haven't been faced with this situation myself. I'd have to think that job one is putting the fear of God in those kids about what can happen to you when you use street drugs.

The rest of it falls in the realm of harm reduction, which is controversial at every level. I dealt with this when I was the health services administrator for a state prison system. The activist push at that time was to get two doses of Naloxone in the hands of every discharging inmate who had a history of an opioid use disorder. A discharging inmate often doesn't realize his tolerance level has changed while incarcerated, and he goes for the same fix he was using before. This often leads to an overdose. The powers that be were concerned that it would be sending the wrong message, that it would be tacitly approving of drug use. Maybe. Maybe so. But if it prevents even one death . . .

I personally don't agree with gaming the system, particularly when it comes to acquiring pot for someone underage. But it really does come down to personal choice, and what risks one is willing to take. The OP's boss's family is willing to take the risk of being caught violating the law/regulations in order to lessen the risk of death. It's a valid choice for them.

One of them is starting 9th grade. They probably don't drink moderately for an adult. But they drink moderately for an 8th grader, and the oldest one probably drinks moderately for an adult.

This raises a million red flags for me. It's one thing to make them aware of the lacing of drugs, or how to consume alcohol responsibly. It's quite another to enable them, especially an 8th grader(!) to procure drugs and alcohol.

On the other hand there is such pathology in the family dynamic

It sounds like the children (and perhaps the parents) are using drugs and alcohol to cope. Some family therapy would do them much more good.

About fentanyl. A friend’s son died of fentanyl laced Xanax. Jakabedy knows of a similar situation but with marijuana. What is the purpose of dealers lacing drugs with fentanyl? They are killing off their customers. Is it cheap extender of the primary drug?

@bbstx medical marijuana comes in pills. There may be other forms, I do not know. My mother had a prescript (not a card) when she was going through cancer treatment.

It's a cheap extender when used with, say, heroin. But not with weed. It's unclear if these reports are true, as it wouldn't make much economic sense.

In late November, police officials in Brattleboro issued a chilling warning.

Someone in the town had suffered an apparent opioid overdose after smoking marijuana, they said, and needed to be revived with CPR and multiple doses of Narcan; officers performed a field test on the remaining cannabis and found it had been spiked with the powerful synthetic painkiller fentanyl.

Two weeks later, the Brattleboro Police Department announced it had arrested three people for dealing suspected fentanyl-laced pot, a nightmare scenario that suggested local marijuana consumers could be unwittingly exposing themselves to a far more risky drug than the one they intended to take.

But then, on Thursday, agents with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration told reporters that their laboratory tests of the marijuana seized at both scenes failed to detect any fentanyl mixed in with the plant material.

However:

Connecticut’s Department of Public Health insists it has verified at least one recent incident in which someone unknowingly consumed fentanyl-laced marijuana obtained on the illicit market. Overall, officials at the agency said, they have linked around 40 opioid overdoses in the state since June to contaminated cannabis.

“We don’t want to be alarmist, but in many of these cases, the person really had no knowledge there was fentanyl or another opioid mixed into their marijuana,” said Susan Logan, an epidemiologist for Connecticut’s health department, in an interview. “The public needs to be aware that they’re not always going to get what they think they’re getting” when buying from the illicit drug market.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/12/marijuana/should-we-fear-fentanyl-laced-marijuana/

A friend in law enforcement would say the same, Jakabedy. Getting caught breaking the law is preferable over death. He says the fentanyl issue is escalating.

My kids partake and they are older. We discuss state regulations, crossing state lines with it, etc. But my most important questions I ask them on a regular basis is, When? Why? and How often. The Why is especially essential because it points to behavioral abuse. I think that’s important for every parent to ask, whether it’s concerning alcohol, drugs, or snickers bars.

I really shouldn't say much about the 9th grader and alcohol. I know that there is some drinking because of exposure to it from the oldest sibling especially. I don't know that it is a lot, I don't know that it is officially condoned. I know it's more than none.

I don't think smokable leaves are available in PA. There are pills, ointments, oils, tinctures and forms that can be vaped. I think my employer eats a lot of his intake rather than smoking, like gummies or something.

I think it is genetic, because I do not get the allure of getting drunk or high. This is no credit to me, it just is.

All the reasons people give have other root causes. “The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.”

If it were me, Id outlaw everything all over again, including alcohol LOL (putting aside for the nonce that outlawing cannot eradicate it). No good can come of it, and so much harm.

@bbstx...dealers want to get people hooked.

Pot is legal in Colorado. I'm sure there are responsible users and justifiable medical uses.

nicole_, is fentanyl addictive?

bbstx Fentanyl is highly addictive.

I think it could be genetic, but I don't think it is always so. I think many times it is someone who is depressed, no friends, bullied, etc. - a person that is down and out. This person tries alcohol or drugs and the high makes them feel better, momentarily. Then it is more and more alcohol/drugs to keep feeling better. Sadly, I think for many, alcohol/drugs takes away the pain.

Pal, as for your original question, I think it is enabling. I don't think a parent should let someone underage use a substance that is illegal. There will be time enough when that child becomes an adult and can make their own decision. Just my opinion.

I would also wonder about kids losing motivation. It will be interesting to see if they finish school.

The two older kids went to an expensive, exclusive private school. The older one got into a okay college, apparently his written essay was practically illiterate. He probably only got in because of the HS he's graduating from. The younger one transferred to the local public school which is still highly rated, and is probably a better fit anyway. The youngest I don't know.

The case you stated I would say is safeguarding.

The kids are relatable. My neighbor was safeguarding his two daughters, allowing them to smoke pot at home, have boyfriend sleepovers at home. The one went to music school, violin major. She taught yoga. Her boyfriend had a party @ their condo, she joined in doing whisky shots & cocaine. Never woke up! Termed an accidental suicide.

Maybe off topic but I feel too much there is too much casual attitude towards marijuana use and driving. Just because it is legal to use it doesnt mean it can’t be dangerous for a driving situation We all are aware of the dangers of DUI but hear really nothing about driving while using marijuana.

In my opinion 9Th grade is a little young to be introducing marijuana to.

Grade nine is too young to be drinking and I don't care how old the older siblings are and what they're up to. I wonder if the older child was drinking in grade 9?

My father was an alcoholic even though he quit drinking when I was about 13. I was always very honest with my kids from the time they were 9 or 10 about the ramifications on a family with an alcoholic member. They were made well aware of what I thought about it. When my younger son and his girlfriend started to bring alcohol induced drama into my home I gave him a choice - alcohol or his home and family. He chose wisely - dumped the girlfriend and alcohol. My kids knew I had lived through it once and wasn't going to live through it again. Tough maybe but didn't care.

Drugs were never an issue in our family or any of my siblings or their kids - don't know why but just never was - alcohol on the other hand - yea.

I am also someone who lived through it once (mom). As an adult, did ACoA & Al-anon. I have chosen not to drink & never did drugs....rampant family of origin history. I think that from what you've said, Pal, the parent in this family self medicates for anxiety or whatever & now is enabling this with the kids. Good grief!!! Can we say denial??? So many parents don't come down hard enough on this stuff with their kids because they don't want to take an honest look at their own behavior. It's a perfect opportunity to stop the cycle, get some knowlege, & learn a better way!! Medical Marijuana is helpful for cancer & some other medical conditions but not for adolescents who are also drinking. It truly does affect an adolescent's brain. In addiction, it's said it freezes the child's brain at the point where they started using. See, if they weren't using, there would be no worry about it being laced with fentanyl, etc. I will now get off my soapbox, but I feel so strongly about this & find your stated question so indicative of our times. Very troubling & sad....

See, if they weren't using, there would be no worry about it being laced with fentanyl, etc.

And the best time to begin educating our children about the dangers of escapism/coping through drugs and alcohol is long before they are ever confronted with those substances. Because once the issue becomes one of peer pressure, you stand precious little chance.

A classmate of one of my son's died last year from fentanyl laced "Xanax." The school friend who procured the tablets has a felony conviction on his record, plus any guilt he feels for being associated with the transaction.

I simply can't imagine making it easier, although safer , for kids to have access to drugs. That's me though. I realize in some family dynamics where the parents might be very hands on and good parents that this sort of parenting might work for them. In other families that are highly dysfunctional to start, things could go horribly wrong. When my boys were young I often gave them the financial side and the side where they would not be hired for any professional job. They understood that better than me telling them the dangers and hazards. Being young teens and thinking they knew it all, well, they listened closely to the costs of being in trouble and the future professional doom better.

I would say this is enabling. Numerous studies have noted the vulnerability of immature teenage brains to marijuana and alcohol. My oldest child (and DH and I) survived his addiction, and I would not wish that pain on anyone. Oh, and we absolutely did not serve or allow drug consumption including alcohol. It is a genetic illness, rampant in DH’s family.

I am so sorry for anyone who has had addiction illness, drugs or alcohol, in their family. My brother is an alcoholic, my nephew had a serious drug problem, and my stepson was a big drinker in his youth. I have seen the tremendous pain and anxiety it wreaks on families, and the damage it does to lives. I am enormously thankful that all three have/are in recovery.

Sorry about the post and run. Busy day.

I think there is a difference between college-age kids and high school. And the system gaming is an added layer that detracts from the parental guidance. I’m also lucky to eacape bad genes.

All that, but I stand my beliefs around the importance of being open and honest about these things with kids.

The key is to understand your kid well enough to know if they will understand both the message and the intent as well as their ability to understand and accept the responsibility. My dad knew that I was responsible and would see this for what it was.

My daughter’s freshman class had a fentanyl OD at breakfast in the cafe. I was torn about how I felt when my 14 year old told me her homeroom teacher’s advice that morning was that if you do choose to use drugs make sure you are friends and can trust your dealer. I countered with the best thing would be to not use drugs but all kids have been given that advice and it is not working is it.

I do not think being friends with your dealer will prevent these od’s but maybe only seeking controled drugs might. So I am not sure how I feel about this issue.

I also think modeling the behavior you hope your children will follow is the best prevention and so I no longer drink at home or in social situations and I never really partook in pot as an adult so I hope to show the children around me that stress and pain can be handled with out drugs and social situations can be entertaining without alcohol.

I was torn about how I felt when my 14 year old told me her homeroom teacher’s advice that morning was that if you do choose to use drugs make sure you are friends and can trust your dealer.

I understand not putting one's head in the sand, especially when lives are at risk. But I would not be happy. When authority figures make statements like that, however well intended, they are essentially condoning it or at least communicating that is is inevitable or expected. That is a powerful message to a freshman.

I would have much preferred a reminder of all of the many reasons you shouldn't do drugs, one of them being that you are ingesting an unknown substance that may be fatal. I mean it's not like "buying from friends" is FDA-approved either. That advice would not give me any comfort at all! What do these idiot kids and the idiots they buy from and the idiots they buy from know?

Better advice is have Narcan at the ready, because these days, you never know when someone may need to be revived with it. A friend who is a pediatrician believes Narcan should be distributed by RAs on dorm floors, no differently than condoms.

NARCAN® Nasal Spray is a prescription medicine used for the treatment of a known or suspected opioid overdose emergency with signs of breathing problems and severe sleepiness or not being able to respond.

Yes I wonder about actively protecting from harm in the act of doing something illegal.

What is being attempted really is protecting someone from the potential consequences of their actions. Get drunk at home, so you aren't out somewhere, get birth control at age 14 so you don't get an STD, get pregnant or get someone pregnant, let me get you your drugs so you don't hurt yourself doing it. Why wouldn't you do any of this stuff it you were insulated from the consequences--if you are that type of person. I am not saying that some of these things are completely wrong, but it does tend to insulate people from the connection between doing something stupid and the consequences of doing so.

Then we are also given warnings on news and TV programs that content may be "upsetting" even when the content is not particularly explicit. I saw a content warning that said "smoking" "mental health issues".

Actually I think people should be shown what someone dying from an overdose looks like, should be shown what someone who has had their head blown off looks like. Then maybe they wouldn't have ivory tower opinions about it, and it may stop some people from doing it.

Interesting piece about photographic "testimony": https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/30/us/politics/photos-uvalde.html

Everyone in my school distict are trained to administer Narcan and all school’s including elementary have it at the ready.

I remember the MADD presentation with a totaled car in high school used to deter drunk driving. It made a powerful statement but we still lost two classmates to DUI accidents that very year.

The MADD totaled cars have been around a long time, and honestly I don't think they make an impact on many students. Same with the simulation of accidents with students acting as victims and with paramedics/FD. The ones that are impacted are those that wouldn't drink or do drugs anyway, and the teenagers that do drink or do drugs just think it's stupid and laugh.

Well, some kids are on mind altering drugs that are not MJ so I dunno. I would ponder very carefully why I needed to get high all the time to function. Occasionally maybe OK. But I would ponder why I needed steroids, or other pain pills, or any number of physical and mind altering drugs. Not saying I wouldn't use them constantly if I needed to, but I would certainly monitor it with a comprehensive pain or mental management program that included other ways of managing whatever was bothering me. And I know this from suffering from chronic migraines. Chronic pain management require a total lifestyle overhaul. Otherwise you get side effects over time from certain drugs, and MJ would be no different. You get side effects from a diet high in saturated fats . . .

Apparently a lot of folks are stoned most of the time. My former landlady had a husband like that. They were separated but she didn't want to go through the financial upheaval of divorce. She said she didn't want to be around her husband when he couldn't get high, he was abusive. So for her, it was easier to tolerate the pot smoking. I dunno, which is worse, drinking all the time, smoking pot or taking some type of medically prescribed drugs in order to function? None of it sounds very positive to me. But I also know people who have benefited greatly from taking such medically prescribed drugs. Not judging, but self medicated is fairly common and I'm not sure leads to the best outcomes. One has to seriously take a look at ones whole lifestyle, not just focus on becoming "numb" to various physical and mental pains. Pain is a sign that something is out of whack. Sometimes it can't be fixed but often it can, with effort.

But not everyone is going there. My town is inundated with pot shops now. There are 17 in our town of under 10K population. Lots of folks who work long hours in back breaking factory jobs need the numbing to keep going. There's a difference between drinking or smoking occasionally and having to do it every day to function. But many folks are in the latter category. It's one of the many observation I make that our current lifestyles are not very conducive to the flourishing of the human psyche and body. Change is very tough though. So at least in my town, a toke is never far away . . . I've never felt a huge draw to pot, or alcohol. Now I can't afford the calories of alcohol and I never got into being high so don't miss it or crave it.

As for teens drinking and drugging, if they see their parents doing it, they either don't like it, or imagine they can have the grand lifestyle of their adult role models. Most of the folks I know who drank or smoked pot heavily did it because they somehow imagined it was super cool or made them extra charming. To me, it's about as boring as it gets, and all the bragging about the dumb things you did while stoned or drunk gets old to me fast. But not to some.

Well the "parent" in this situation, and I use the term parent very loosely, has to be numbed in some form or other at all times because he's miserable. And of course anti therapy and anti the sorts of prescriptions that have been shown to actually work for some of the issues he has.

Well, Pal, there you have it. "Parent" self medicates & is passing that coping mechanism on. Very sad & I wish those kids well. Such dumb closed minded ignorance she says shaking her head....!!

Dereliction of duty, IMO---aside from the obvious other issues.

I do have a friend who lost his happy, young teenager to fentanyl laced club drugs. Very, very sad. So I do kind of understand the appeal. If I had to choose between mj and alcohol for my own kid, mj all the way. The harms are so much less (although still there).

Perhaps I had a sheltered childhood, but a parent enabling children to fake credentials to obtain drugs seems like enabling and bad parenting to me. I know many people that occasionally use recreationally and several people that self-medicate with it. I can also think of two people who seem to be addicted and use it daily, sometimes all day. One of those will drive while high. To me it's somewhat similar to alcohol where it's not appropriate for developing brains and is somewhat (but not entirely) safe to use in moderation, but is also very easy for some people to become addicted or if not addicted, use to excess. It's been a long time since childhood, but despite plenty of peer pressure I never did drugs (still haven't). Understanding the risks, especially of unregulated street drugs, was enough of a deterent for me (and still is). And I don't think it's safe if the dealer is your friend. How do you know the dealer knows that the product is untampered? I don't have any solutions, but I don't think faking a medical card to obtain a controlled substance for children is smart.