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tsjmjh

Countertops: It's getting confusing !!

4 years ago

We are redoing kitchen countertops and backsplash, and cutting the overly large and angled on both ends island down from two levels to one. It is in the almost square open space that includes kitchen, dining and living areas so this large expanse of stone will be the first thing one sees upon entering the room.


I'm firmly set on granite; I've used it for 30+ years in several kitchens and bathrooms and never had any issues. I also like its movement and color. The solid surface and quartz countertops I've had - meh.


Unfortunately, I'm on a budget and my allowance is Level 2, which also rules out any quartzite. I actually found something in that range that I liked and that coordinates with the cabinets, floor and furniture - Fantasy Brown. I'm limited to two stone yards - both large and reputable - but one calls it granite and one calls it dolomite. From reading here and other places, I now know it's dolomite, which is more upkeep than I want at this point.


I also liked Ocean Beige (Level 3) which is similar to Fantasy Brown but, again, a dolomite. Then I fell in love with Buda Blue granite at the same place that mislabeled Fantasy Brown as a granite. I've looked here and I've googled many different ways, but the only thing I find is a place called Blue in Buda, Texas.


So, has anyone heard of Buda Blue granite? That's a new name to me.


Is it granite or dolomite? (It's not as "bright" blue, and the areas that look gray are light brown, for the most part.)


River Blue is a granite, I'm fairly certain (I'm starting to doubt everything, lol) and it could work if I find the right slabs.


Thanks in advance for anyone helping me learn about Buda Blue !


Comments (25)

  • PRO
    4 years ago

    Test for youself in person please.

    tsjmjh thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • 4 years ago

    Beautiful stone- wow!

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    they've prob renamed it. (a lot of stone yards assign their own names so they can mis-label it as granite) Blue granites are pretty rare, and have a higher price tag.

    i'm betting it's prob in the marble range,

    This one is called Blue Ocean/Ocean Blue, and it's a marble, similar to the Fantasy Brown.




    River Blue, also marble


    Blue Dragon marble


    for quartzites, a good blue one is ijen blue,


    (but you said this is out of your price range? what if you took a standard option, or nothing, and went and purchased something yourself?)


    Porcelain slabs are another option. one slab is in the 2K-2.5K range.



    take a lemon, ask for a tiny piece off the end, and put a few drops of lemon juice on it. wait 5-10 mins, wipe off. any etching? if yes, it's not granite.

    or try this one w/a glass tile. if the glass tile scratches the slab, you have a marble.


    If the point of the slab done like this, leaves a powdery residue, but doesn't scratch the glass, you have a marble. the glass scratches, you have a granite/quartzite.

    tsjmjh thanked Beth H. :
  • 4 years ago

    Thanks so much, Beth. Yes, the Buda Blue is labeled as a granite, but it's at the same yard that is calling Fantasy Brown a granite which is why I questioned it. And, yes, I know blues are expensive so I was surprised to see the Level 2 on the Buda whatever. I will check marbles and see if I find anything similar with a different name.

    I will have to check with the contractor about going to other places and/or buying the slabs myself. Something tells me that could be a problem; this is by far not my first kitchen rodeo with contractors from awful (only once, thankfully) to the very best.

    .Since my last kitchen redo (5? years ago), Fantasy Brown seems to have cornered the market - just zillions of slabs to choose from.

    Love the Ijen blue quartzite. The Blue Ocean/Ocean Blue makes me wonder about the Ocean Beige dolomite; some places do call that marble.


    Maybe I can handle dolomite since it's just the two of us (except those 10-year-old twin terror grandsons visit often and my spouse is almost as destructive) but at this stage of the game, I really don't want to.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I'll bet anything it's not a granite! i'm sure it's some type of calcite. a simple test will confirm.

    https://usenaturalstone.org/how-to-be-your-own-stone-sleuth/

    Blue Bahia is a granite that is very blue and very pretty, but it's not a level 2! I actually have a broken slab of that I broke apart and used on my patio floor.

    What is standard w/your builder? At no extra cost to you? just get that. on install day if you can be there, advise the installers not to use adhesive since you will be removing it. shouldn't be a big deal.

    Then you can visit other places and get what you like.

    As for dolomite, you can read up on how to test it, but it involves using a small bit of hcl (acid) to test. It's the reaction of the acid w/the dolomite that releases carbon dioxide or something. I'm no chemist, but it's a pretty straight forward test. dolomite etches a lot slower than calcite (marble) but still needs to be sealed.


    The best way to tell one from the other is the acid test: a drop of 1 M HCl on calcite produces an instant, obvious fizz; a drop on dolomite produces slow or no obvious bubbling. Frequently, you have to use a knife point to powder a small area of dolomite to get a visible reaction to a drop of acid.



    https://usenaturalstone.org/know-your-minerals/

    Calcite has a Mohs hardness of 3, which is harder than a fingernail but softer than glass. A sharp-tipped nail or pocketknife will leave a definitive scratch in calcite. Also, vinegar dripped onto calcite will often gently fizz.

    • Dolomite and calcite look alike and you can’t tell them apart visually.
    • The test for dolomite is called the ‘powdered rock acid test.’ Calcite will have a fizzing reaction when in contact with diluted hydrochloric acid. Dolomite will not, unless the stone is powdered first. To do this test, use a nail or tip of a knife and scratch up an area of the stone. Leave the stone dust in place, and then put one drop of acid on it. If the stone is dolomite, it will have a weak, bubbling reaction. If it’s some other type of mineral altogether, like feldspar, there will be no reaction at all.


    I've had Super White (dolomite) in my bathroom for 5 years. it has one small etch part by the sink. otherwise it's held up rather nicely. Have you considered a slab of that?


    tsjmjh thanked Beth H. :
  • 4 years ago

    We had Fantasy Brown installed a year ago . It is my understanding that it is a marble. Ours was treated by the stoneyard with a product called More Anti Etch and we have zero etching or staining.


    tsjmjh thanked clt3
  • 4 years ago

    clt3, it's a dolomite. it's naturally a bit stronger. glad you got the treatment. I have a calacatta marble on my island. it was treated by the company w/their 'azerocare' sealer. anti stain/etch. After 4 years, a portion of it has worn off where I do most of my preparing. It has etched, but no staining. And that 'sealer' they use is susceptable to heat. I use the toaster on that spot all the time and it's completely faded off under the toaster spot. don't know if yours is the same, but just something to consider.


    pretty cabinet color!

  • 4 years ago

    clt3 your Fantasy Brown would be perfect in my kitchen. I'm so torn, because it's affordable and there are so many to pick from.

  • 4 years ago

    As others have said, check the slabs yourself by testing . I am getting a slab of River Blue for two bathrooms and my fireplace surround. The one I'm getting is Dolomite.


    tsjmjh thanked cwcf185
  • 4 years ago

    I know the ones I like, in my price range, aren't granite and that's the big decision - do I want to take care of dolomite?

  • 4 years ago

    chicagopa - Beautiful countertops. That's the appeal of Fantasy Brown; so many different subtle colors and shades. I'm soooo torn!

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    tsjmjh,,,,

    you never answered my question about getting the standard countertop from your builder and upgrading after you move it.

    (depending on the size of your countertop, another budget friendly option is Pre-Fab countertops. they come in all types of stone/quartz. usual price is about $500 for a 9' X24" pre-fab. I've used them many times on redos.


    Pre fabs look like these^

    here's a Taj Majal pre-fab:


    I'd look at the blue ocean or river blue. I think they're pretty

    did you read my comment about how to do the tests to determine dolomite/marble?

    I think dolomite would be fine if you can find it.

    another option is Danby Marble. beautiful and is stronger than a carrara.


    no quartz?


    what about a porcelain?

    this is a calacatta porcelain slab from my stone place. $2200 for the slab


    porcelain:




    Here's the tag for this one. can't remember if this was a marble or a porcelain. $1700 is pretty good tho. What are they charging you for a level 2 slab?


  • 4 years ago

    Beth: Sorry, not sure I understand your question. This is a remodel, not a new build, and I don't know what I'm being charged per slab; it's a price for Level 2 granite installed since I had said use Fantasy Brown for pricing (before I realized it's not granite).


    We're also having a laundry room redone with the same contractor, at the same time. His contract includes all work; all I'm doing is supplying appliances, sink, faucet, etc. He will install all of them in both rooms. Which reminds me - haven't even opened the giant box in the garage that is the new LG Washtower - probably should check to see that there are no dings and it's the right color ;-)


    So, you're saying put inexpensive countertops in, buy slabs myself and have them fabricated and installed, after removing the temps, acting as contractor? Do prefabs have to be fabricated/installed? I mean, sink hole, outlets, etc., to pass inspection, right? I need 3 slabs, and judging by the size of the preslabs you show, I would need more than 3 of them. Also, I don't know what I gain by spending that extra money ??


    I've had quartz and I much prefer granite. Quartzite is out of my price range now, as is any porcelain I've seen, plus I've read that porcelain requires a lot of upkeep. Any granite I've had in the last 30+ years has been almost indestructible and required almost zero maintenance. This is why I'm hesitating about the dolomite; I know it's more upkeep/care than I want to worry about but I can't find a granite I like in that same price range.


    I priced Ijen Blue and it's an exotic. Of course it is, because I love it. Used an exotic granite in the last kitchen redo and oh my it was gorgeous. And sooooo different from the trend of marble-look quartz. I need something here with tans/light browns because of floor and cabinetry, but I'm a sucker for blue/aqua which are also predominant colors in my furniture, all in the same room as the kitchen. Fantasy Brown has all of those colors. The Ocean Beige (dolomite level 3) that I also liked has more aqua blue and a different type of movement than Fantasy Beige - more subtle? - but very similar. I think the contractor gave me a price for Ocean Beige level 3 today; I haven't checked for sure; just saw the title of the text.


    Yes, I intend to do the tests you recommend. We're in SW Florida and standing outside at stone yards right now is done in short bursts of time, lol, over several days. It also took me over six months to even get contractors to come and bid on this relatively small job, and then another several months to get on a schedule.


    Again, thanks mucho for all of your help and photos but I'm not understanding the temporary idea you proposed ??

  • 4 years ago

    sorry, I misunderstood when you were only given level 2 options.

    Why can't you go to any stone yard you want and pick out what you want if it's within your budget?

    I thought you were getting a builder upgrade, not a remodel from a contractor.


    If you're in Florida, you should have tons of options. Even the pre-fab countertops should be plentiful there.

    go to diff stone yards on your own and price out some diff slabs. see what they charge you to fabricate.

    I can't imagine doing a remodel and then being told I have to stick to level II.

    Normally they will charge you more than those slabs actually cost. (level 2 is prob in the 1000-1600 dollar range? maybe a bit more?

    fabrication is another 2K or so. what is the budget for countertops? and do you need 2 slabs or just one?

    tsjmjh thanked Beth H. :
  • 4 years ago

    I need three slabs. I don't have to stick to level 2; that's what allowed in the contract but of course I can spend more. So far the stone yards I've been to all ask for the contractor's name before they'll talk to me. It's not about the contract; it's about whether or not I want dolomite. Fantasy Brown is almost perfect; when I first found it, it was mislabeled as granite.

  • 4 years ago

    sounds like that's one you want. if you like the colors, go for it.

    try and find one w/more of the blues in it. (personally I think it's meh, but that's me. if you like it, get it!)

    no stone slab will be perfect. they all have pros and cons.

    just keep it sealed, wipe up spills promptly, be careful w/acidic foods. use cutting boards.

    tsjmjh thanked Beth H. :
  • 4 years ago

    I have dolomite, Beth is right, just keep it wiped up. We wipe up whenever we prep or eat, and you should use coasters and placemats. I dont go insane, we just have new habits. I have one etch, its next to the sink and you have to be at the right angle to see it, Im pretty sure i splashed a bit of vinegar that sat there for too long. I still wouldnt trade it, get what you love.

    tsjmjh thanked M Riz
  • 4 years ago

    Go with Fantasy Brown. I love mine. It has only been 1.5 years, but no issues with staining, and I do have one etch, but nobody but me even knows where it is. It is from my husband leaving a cut lime on the counter. He has since been better trained 😉. I always have used trivets or pot holders for hot items, so I don’t really find that an inconvenience.

    tsjmjh thanked User
  • PRO
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    IMO how can we help witout one pic of your space . BTW Blue Bahia is very expensive Good for you to be choosing granite over plastic quartz but I need to see your kitchenIMO factory polished granite is as cloose to bullet proof as you will find. I have never had it etch .

    tsjmjh thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • 4 years ago

    Thanks so much, everyone, for the Fantasy Brown/dolomite endorsements. I have to admit I don't even want to do trivets, coasters, placemats, immediate wiping, lol; already do that with the marble kitchen/dining room table. In all of the years I've had granite - 30+ - and granite topped kitchen tables - I've never used a trivet - just put those hot things right on the granite. I guess I've been lucky but never had an issue. My last kitchen table was leathered Absolute Black and that was the most care, not for heat but for dull areas, I've ever had to use on granite and even that wasn't much.


    I have only a few days to find something and make a decision; the job is starting mid-July and we'll be gone and/or have company for the rest of June. I'm going to make one more go-round for a granite and anything I like will definitely be above Level 2, of course, so most likely come back to Fantasy Brown. I saw it and it was perfect for my cabinets, floors and furniture and marked granite and it was not expensive and I said hallelujah !! Then to find out it's softer than granite - just grrrrrrr.


    This island is going to be a huge eye-catching expanse in the completely open kitchen/dining/living area- and the thought of a big "issue" in the center of it makes me all itchy. ;-)


    PS - I've always used cutting boards on any countertop, solid surface or quartz or granite. So I'm good with that.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    if you had to do something for absolute black, then you got cheated. It's very common for some stone places to take a lower quality black granite (usually from China) dye it, and pass it off as AB. Over time the color fades and needs to be repolished.

    I always tell people to take a rag dipped in acetone and wipe it across the black. if the rag comes away w/black on it, it's been dyed and isn't AB.

    Some dealers probably aren't aware of this and are also being cheated.

    There are very many diff kinds of black 'granite' but only one type of Absolute Black.

    AB is very expensive and is quarried from only a few places around the globe. (Sweden and some parts of Africa, sometime India (although they have many other blacks) . AB is a Gabbro (chemically the same as Basalt) not granite ) research it.

    AB is so dense, a sealer won't even penetrate it. (and if they did put one on, it would just dry/sit on top, and dull. mabye that's what you had, or maybe you had one that had been dyed.) True AB is just about as bullet proof as you can get from any natural countertop. Heat, stains, etching, whatever, nothing is hurting that rock.


    So, back to your dilemma. if you get the Fantasy slab you are going to have to take some precautions.

    everything is a trade-off.

  • 4 years ago

    Maybe you should looked at leathered uba tuba. Or polished. I personally think it is a beautiful stone, even if some would call it “dated”

  • 4 years ago

    I have friends with white granites you have had stains and etching from spills not wiped up in reasonable time. Maybe they didn’t appropriately seal. Idk. Like Beth said, everything is a trade off

  • 4 years ago

    It's done ! And I went completely different direction; White Nevada granite (level 3). I can't find many examples on the world wide web; sometimes called Blanco or Bianco Nevada. It's not Valle Nevada.


    Anyway, if anyone else lives in SW Florida right now you know tramping around outside in a stone yard becomes "get it over with." We went this morning and I looked at all of the exotics and quartzites but even with my determination to get whatever I wanted, I didn't really see anything that worked with existing cabinets/floor and that I loved enough to pay the price. Then it was back to the acres and acres of Fantasy Brown and Ocean Beige (other name?? also a dolomite) and I kept stalling - i want granite !!


    Happened to see the 4 lonely slabs of Nevada White - kind of crammed in between others - and voila - done ! They were even almost half in the shade so I could see the "real" color, not color in beating down bright sunlight which of course I don't have in my kitchen.


    It has some movement (a titch as they say in the South)- it's not just all level 1-ish speckles - but not a lot of movement like Fantasy Brown. My floor tile is sooo busy (and awful) that as much as I loved the Fantasy Brown and Ocean Beige colors, perhaps too much.


    We realized we forgot to take photos so as soon as husband gets back from that errand (lol, not me) I'll post them.


    Now I have to remember the colors so I can pick/get the Blanco sink I want. I think Blanco's Cinder color will work. We're going with plain white subway tile backsplash but will have to get samples and take them to the stone yard for the match; there is not a sample of the granite - they are not fabricators. Trying to figure out when I can work in an appointment at Ferguson to get other stuff ordered, and/or how long it will take to get some things.


    We're leaving next week to meet family for a mini vacation in Orlando and then of course they're coming back here (Florida - free golf ! free swimming!) until the end of June. Our start date is July 18 so no more procrastination.


    Thanks to everyone for help and suggestions.


    @Beth H. : My Absolute Black wasn't dyed. With the leathered finish, it was a bit lighter and showed more variation based on angles of light. Some spots got kind of dull-looking if not cleaned up but, again, it was more obvious on that finish than on a polished finish and I could brighten them back up.