Not super impressed with the pictures of these, hopefully they are better in person

I am definitely disappointed. I want Bring Me Sunshine. Instead we get the insipid Elizabeth. Feel free to disagree with me. Diane

Dave, thanks for the links. I just emailed Austin with my grievances-ha. Grumpy old coot, Diane

Eksellent (no eks key right now) idea, Ingrid. I still don't understand why Evelyn and Munstead Wood are gone, either. Not sure that Jude the Obscure is available or Abe Darby. Diane

Ingrid, I SO wish Wild Edric was available here in the US! I wish Austin would bring it back, or that somebody else would carry it. What a beautiful rose. I understand it has rugosa heritage, too, so it might be quite tough. Another few I'd really love to see back are Mistress Quickly, John Clare, and The Herbalist - all magnificent roses (for me at least). I also don't understand why they got rid of beautiful Munstead! I'm pretty underwhelmed with Elizabeth and the other new one (forget what it is called).

100% agree with all of above.

Both are pretty yawn-worthy.

i rather like Elizabeth (perhaps I am yawn-worthy) and would like to grow as I have a daughter of that name. The closest I have come before and still grow is St. Elisabeth of Hungary which is a stunning rose. this gently coloured rose suits her personality.

They just don’t want to Bring us any Sunshine, how conspicuous the one new intro i’d like is missing. These two introductions look like they’ll wash out and/or fry instantly in hot sun , I’ll take a pass.

And I’ve said many times it’s a crime the way they try to force their proven old varieties out of commerce.

Thanks for posting the info, Dave.

Ben I so agree about Bring Me Sunshine, and I let Austin know my disappointment (whoopee). In our hot and sunny climates, we need roses that will stand up to the heat and look good from a sunny distance. For me, these two introductions will be like Olivia is in my garden. Wan and pale in the distance, only looking good in a photo. I think they've lost it when it comes to the American market and the sunny West. Diane

We do need some Sunshine - well, hopefully in 2024. The fragrance of Elizabeth does sound nice but, I agree, I think it would wash out quickly where I live now.

Haha, Diane, you tell’em! I left my roses behind when moving last year and had hoped to purchase replacements of a few to grow in pots but who knew it was going to be the year of The Great Discontinuation - Evelyn, Jude, Abe, Spirit of Freedom…😣😩

@smithdale1z8pnw - Let us know how it does for you if you do get Elizabeth. Edited to add - That’d be special to grow her in tribute to your daughter. I personally like “Elizabeth” as well and wouldn’t hesitate growing her if I lived in my previous forested and oft overcast home. (My first post disappeared and didn’t have time to rewrite it)

Diane

LOL

I hope your "Eks" key gets well soon!

Carla in Sac

Roses tend not to wash out in my cool, marine climate, we'll see.

A lovely older rose named Sister Elizabeth seems to still be available although sold out at DA. I grew it years ago and loved it, although it was short and floppy in habit, which somehow seemed to suit it. I'll see if I can find a picture of her in my files.

Another shot of Sister Elizabeth showing a deeper pink color.

Another shot of Wild Edric, which to me always looked like a pure rugosa, including the thorns, which however never gave me any grief.

Ingrid.... Sister Elizabeth looks charming, is she lilac-pink? That's one of my favourite rose colours.

Sister Elizabeth is very pretty!

I imagine these very pale roses would not wash out in cool climates. But it does seem to me that with climate change, and so many places - including the UK - increasingly experiencing very hot summers, that if breeders want to create roses in these pale, delicate shades, they should concentrate on trying to make them as shade tolerant as possible. In my central NJ climate, those 2 new Austins would blanch out to a sort of dirty white after early-to-mid June, unless they could be happy in a pretty shady spot. Anymore, when I get roses in pale colors, I always look for how well they'll do in shade - otherwise, I might as well just buy a white rose (which actually, would probably be a cleaner white than a blanched-out pastel shade). For all many rave about Olivia Rose Austin, I have to say every time I've seen her in person, she's been really washed out, so I've never been tempted.

I've been holding back from posting because I am just too mad at DA right now, but unless these new roses are exceptionally disease/ heat/ drought tolerant, it would really invalidate all their recent PR about needing to retire old varieties to replace them with roses that can handle climate change.

With all their talk you would think they would be going for an ADR or some other type of hardiness/resistance award. Instead they seem to just be happy to churn out more pastel lookalikes while capitalizing off of people's love for the Queen.  

Ingrid, I love my Wild Edric too, but I don't believe they'll bring him back. It would be refreshing to see them release a new Rugosa hybrid some day though.

I agree @User - Shade tolerance is another important facet in ensuring roses endure in the climate change dilemma besides breeding for drought and heat tolerance. And while they’re at it, why not add color fastness :)

Love your Sister Elizabeth, Ingrid! It was my perfect pot rose in my previous home and could flop if it wanted to. Sadly, all of those out of stock varieties won’t be coming back - there are so many we lost this year.

Grimly drear. Horrible, really.

Where are those rich saturated colors of days gone by? Those deep colors that make you swoon?

They dump a beautiful rose like Munstead wood for an uninteresting rose like Elizabeth?

Frankly, I think Elizabeth got a lackluster rose. She deserved something vibrant and exciting and I think that one is just meh .

Ingrid, your Sister Elizabeth is a much prettier rose. The pink/lavender is a beautiful color.

I've already received my answer from Austin about Bring Me Sunshine not being released in the US. The reply was a wee bit dishonest (I hate to use the word "lie"). They claimed that Bring Me Sunshine was a new release in England and needed to be evaluated before it could be released in 2024 (possibly) in the US. Phooey. Marlorena has 2021 photos on HMF of BMS in her garden, I thought. I will check on that. So I replied that Bring Me Sunshine had been grown in England for over a year, so don't tell me it's brand new (or something to that effect).

On to nicer topics: Ingrid, Sister Elizabeth is a beautiful rose, much lovelier than Liz. And Wild Edric is a stunner with his colors I love.

Seaside, your Wild Edric is just gorgeous, too, but they'll never bring anything back. They're no longer patented. I do think Austin is still selling a few of their roses that are no longer under patent. If they brought Evelyn back, they'd still make a tremendous profit on her with so many wanting this rose, and so few available.

Kristine, I totally agree with you about those great colors. That's where Carruth has Austin beat, I think. An eksception is Munstead Wood, which they dump. Who can figure it out? Diane

Sister Elizabeth is definitely a cool pink, which is a tone I very much favor. seaside, your Wild Edric is beautiful. It makes a very nice bush, which is not true of all the rugosa hybrid types.

I couldn't agree more that roses should now be bred for heat resistance. The old tea roses are good in that respect but in my conditions even they struggled toward the end as climate change progressed. I now have Golden Prosperity and two plants of Intrigue in a spot where at this time of the year they have virtually no sun and in the summer have perhaps three to four hours and I'm curious if they will bloom at all. Perhaps we should all be trying to push the envelope and see if roses will in greater heat bloom with a minimal amount of sun.

@Ingrid_vc zone 9b, San Diego Co. inlandrid, di d you mean to write Golden Opportunity or is GP another rose

I don't for a minute believe DA's claim that they're discontinuing their old varieties out of concern for climate change. We know how they are about their older varieties, after observing it for many years. I think someone at DA latched onto climate change as a marketing tool to assuage the complaints about their ditching many beloved varieties. OTOH, I do believe that some companies like Kordes, etc are looking for more heat tolerant roses... I believe that because those companies don't have a history of ditching their old varieties when they go off patent, and trying to block own-root companies from selling them.

`I agree DA’s climate change argument for ditching their older varieties is a laughable play for profit. They want to charge resellers and gardeners for buying their patented roses, and their own unpatented older introductions get in the way of that profit. The more successful and well-regarded an older variety is (Abe, Munstead, Evelyn) the more likely it is to cannabalize on the sale on a more profitable Elizabeth or Nye Bevan. Imagine if all the breeders throughout history acted so selfishly, there’d be no David Austin because they would have no material to work with.

Their roses tend to be big , sprawly and extra thirsty., requiring extra resoruces in the large swath of the US sunbelt they’d like to market to. And the newer varieites still get blackspot. So their climate change arguement doesn’t hold water. It’s not like they are introducing David Austin English Cacti for No Spray Xeriscape Gardens.

I kinda like Elizabeth ..every bloom is a button-eye ♡ and the fragrance is described as, "Lemon Sherbert & old Rose" Yum!

She looks to be s large bush..when DA says its 4 ft-ish that means possible climber in Florida lol. However, I bet the color would wash out and I wonder how large the blooms are? They look kinda small, so I don't know...

their climate change arguement doesn’t hold water

Presumably unintentional humorous wording. Although maybe not...