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flevy

Critique my layout

Felicia Levy
last year

This is my first pass at a layout. Please point out my pitfalls :)


I would like there to be limited or no uppers. The backwall is becoming a wall of windows from DW1 to the fridge. The opening on the right that has the tall pantry cabinets in front of it will be closed. The tall pantry wall will store small appliances as well as food.


I have no idea what the triangle at the bottom of the floor plan is. It's not in the visio file but shows up when I save as an image. So just ignore it




Comments (8)

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    last year
    last modified: last year

    The first thing that jumps out at me is that there is no filler on either side of the corner--which means that drawers and doors will not open past each other. I don't see a fridge surround--is the fridge free-standing? Do you need a 42" range and a second DW?


    Your work aisles are the bare minimum; you can find good kitchen planning info in the following links:


    NKBA guidelines

    New to Kitchens? Read me first.

    Felicia Levy thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • mcarroll16
    last year

    Overall, it looks pretty good. Here are some nitpicky comments:

    1. There's a scale mismatch. A 42" range and 2 dishwashers is a kitchen for cooking for a small army. But you've only got a one 36" fridge and seating for 7, split between two locations. Do you have another fridge in a garage or basement? Do you have a dining room that you use for most meals? Or perhaps the alternative question should be, do you really need a 42" range?

    2. How deep are your pantry cabinets? 24" deep will be hard to use effectivley, unless they are pullouts. Consider using 12" or 15" cabinets there. Easier to manage stored contents, and a little breathing room for your table.

    3. That table looks very crowded. I think the distance between island and pantry cabinets is 7 1/2 feet? That's tight even without two chairs backing to refrigerator and pantry doors. I deeply hate countertop height seating. But for this room, it might make more sense for island-only eating. With a longer island and an seating overhang on the right side, you could seat 6 or 7 at the island, without the traffic jam that table will create.

    4. DW 1 will be pretty much unuseable while someone is using the range. Is that compatible with your family's workflow?

    Felicia Levy thanked mcarroll16
  • PRO
    Rachiele Custom Sinks
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Looking at the offset sink to the window, there is an easy solution. Some manufacturers offer 8" deep sinks with right or left rear drains. That will allow you to combine the sink base and the trash base into one cabinet, allowing you to center the window and have full size double trash pullout under the sink. This link should help you visualize what I mean.


    Lastly, I do not feel there is enough room for an independent table and chairs. You could extend the countertop and get at least three more chairs available.




  • AnnKH
    last year

    Adding to mcarroll16's question about the 42" range - do you need both a large oven in the range and a second oven? It seems like your appliances will completely overwhelm the kitchen.


    Why do you need 3" of filler next to the range, but there is no filler in the corner (as mama_goose mentioned).


    If DW1 is open, you can't open the oven, and vice versa. This is something one may learn to deal with in an existing kitchen, but you have the opportunity to eliminate such problems.

  • rebunky
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Agree with others’ comments so far.

    Here are some ideas I had, if money was no object of course! 😆

    I am sure some of them might not be possible, but I will post it anyways, just in case.

    I am also not a kitchen designer, so I am sure it has some issues I forgot about!


    The table did not have enough clearance to walk around, so I just made the opening larger. No biggie right? 😉

    I moved DW #1 to the island and changed it to double DW drawers.

    I have a similar layout to this. I have the DW drawers in that same spot on my island with the sink directly across. I have a normal DW to the right of my sink like DW #2. I love the dw drawes so much that I use them more then I do the normal dw. I like that I can do smaller loads. I have a 36” dish drawer cabinet like yours on my island, and it is so convenient to unload dishes from both DW’s right into it.

    If you are set on the 42” range, don’t forget you need a minimum 48” hood above it.

    I moved the pots and pans, larger mixing bowls, casserole dishes, small appliances used for prep, etc, to the corner Super Susan. I have this same thing and find it works great for me.

    The trash is still to the left of the sink, but bigger.

    I moved the island back so there could be 48” in both isles. That is the minimum I would go. 42“ is way, way too tight imo! 42” is only for a one butt kitchen, not multiple people.

    The original fridge location was too far away from the island to use it as a close landing spot. My fridge is about where I moved yours. The island is so convenient to unload groceries to fridge or to get stuff out. It is just a half pivot and drop. Love it.

    I also thought you might consider those separate counter-depth fridge and freezer columns. That is if you think the 36” regular counter depth fridge might be too small. As someone mentioned, the two dw’s and huge 42” range seems to suggest you might need a bigger fridge.

    I moved one of the tall pantries on the end by the french door.

    The advantium oven is over on the other end, to the left of the range. Thought it would be a nice balance if there was also a tall cabinet there?

    Actually think you need that counter space open to the left of the range. Is the advantium like a microwave drawer or an under cabinet oven? I have an advantium too, but we mostly just use it as a microwave. The door hinges down on mine. Maybe a pullout drawer microwave there would work?

    I made the smaller outside door a bigger glass french door for even more light and so the table would have a nice view to the outdoors.

    I wondered if that lower section could be made into a reach in or walk in pantry to make up for the pantry cabinets I deleted?

    Eta: I tried fixing my many typos!

    Felicia Levy thanked rebunky
  • Felicia Levy
    Original Author
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @rebunky---thank you for this detailed analysis! Actually making the opening bigger really isn't a big deal :) . If you use your DW drawers more than your D/W, would you have put the drawers next to the sink and the bigger DW in the island? I've had an advantium in the last 3 houses I've lived in. It's my microwave too! I know I could use it as an oven but I tend not to. The advantium will go under the counter. I looked at the microwave drawers but the the push to open button and the waiting for the drawer to open irritates me---it just seems to take too long to open. I wish that they made a pull drawer m/w.


    I flip between having a kosher kitchen and not. If I can fit 2 D/W and double ovens, I would like too. If I can't, then I'll deal, but its so much easier with 2. The other thing I can do is do a tall wall/oven cabinet with the 2 dbl ovens + cooktop. I'd still need the m/w somewhere else, because I'm short and I wouldn't be able to reach one appliance if I stacked all 3.


    I really appreciate the feedback and suggestions.

  • rebunky
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Oh that is great about the opening! I saw you had the two openings there already, so I hoped it would work to just remove that tiny divider section.

    I like having the one tall pantry within the kitchen for convenience, but was the idea of more pantry space in that lower area workable? Or was something else planned for that space?

    My claustrophobia kicked into high gear, seeing how cramped that space was around the table and chairs. I think the recommendation is 3 feet from the table edge to a wall or object, but more like five feet if in front of an object that has drawers or doors, like a pantry cabinet.

    I love having nice open flow going from one room to another. That doesn’t neccessarily mean you have to have a huge house either. I lived in a tiny 450 sq ft home, but because it had a nice open flow around objects, and going from room to room, it did not feel claustrophobic.

    Is it possible to post an overhead drawing of the rooms surrounding the kitchen? It helps us if we can see the flow, especially going from the front entry or garage entry when bringing in the groceries. Or if there is another separate dining room, etc etc…

    I thought about your dw switch up question. I think I would keep them the way they are.

    The reason is because I tend to use the big dw on the days I cook large meals from stratch. Not sure on your cooking schedule. I used to make big meals eveyday when the kids were at home. Now being empty nesters, I make extra for freezing. I also love to bake desserts and give to friends and family. All these tasks create a huge mess that goes in the main dw. I put large stuff like pots and pans, casserole dishes, platters, large mixing bowls, etc, in the main dw because they don’t really fit in the smaller dw drawers. They also usually need rinsing and so going across the isle to the island dw means dripping a little bit on the floor. Main dw next to the sink is better for the big stuff. Once I put the bigger items in, I just fill in around them with the smaller stuff. It usually gives me a full load to wash.

    Then for days we go with lighter meals, I like to use one of the double dw drawers. Coffee mugs, drinking glasses, wine glasses, silverware, breakfast, lunch and plates from reheated leftovers, etc. By the end of the day, amazingly, I usually have one of the two drawers full to wash. And that is with us using the same water glass all day and reusing a plate that was only used for toast or something non messy!

    I hope I don’t start a riot on here about why I would possiblly have two dw’s in my kitchen with only two people. 😉 Apparantly it is a hotly debated topic for some. Mine was not planned. Long story short, the plan was to replace the dw drawers with a trash pullout or a microwave drawer later on when they kicked the bucket. I never thought they would last so long since they were already a used freebie when we got them! I also keep putting it off because I use them all the time. Of course you needing two dw’s for a kosher kitchen makes perfect sense.

    I will think on your kitchen some more. I hope @mama goose_gw zn6OH, @Buehl, and some of the wonderful KD Pros and non pros alike will see this and can help you more with the layout.

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