Sorry @diggerdee zone 6 CT, I don't have experience with SWB but rather with Diablo and more recently Lemon Candy. I do like Ninebarks but it has been my experience that they grow (lots) larger than advertised.

I am not wild about the dark colored ninebarks but I like the bronze ones - Centerglow and Coppertina.

IME, they are not very petite and form large, arching shrubs over time but easily pruned to size. And in my area at least, they are prone to powdery mildew and aphids.

I have Coppertina. As Rouge and GG say, large arching shrub. Prone to powdery mildew here in Indiana as well, but I love it. Site where it gets plenty of space and air.

I have the old/original 'Summer Wine'. I always thought its rather wimpy white/pale pink flowers don't suit it - that it needs something vivid/big/showy to suit that foliage! So I considered that when planting things with it. At the moment, 'Orange Emperor' tulips are just starting to bloom as the leaves on the shrub are starting to emerge. Later 'Paprika' roses pair well with it and bloom most of the summer. 'Midnight Marvel' hibiscus has dark foliage similar in color to the ninebark and big, dark red flowers that goes well with the ninebark and blooms in late summer. I tried growing large-flowered clematis into it but haven't found anything that both grew well with it and was a good color match with it. :-( I find the ninebark can produce lots of small stems so I prune out at ground level all the little stems and just keep a dozen or so of the thickest stems, which also have peeling bark. The ninebark is the biggest/tallest structural plant in the narrow bed along the south side of the driveway. I think it was a good choice for that space.

Coppertina grew quite big here, and mildew could be bad some years. I got rid of mine.

Dee here is mine..alittle out of contol lol. I didnt cut it back that year as I only cut it back every other year. It is at the top of my slope to give a better perspective. I’ve never had a problem with PM or aphids on mine and I’ve had it for many years....

ETA Have you thought about a smokebush? They now have ‘Winecraft’...a dwarf one. Not sure how big they actually get yet as I’ve only had mine for a few years. None of my 3 are anywhere near the same size. Location I’m sure is a key factor. This year should be alittle more telling...

Here is a pic of Winecraft dwarf smokebush...

In the Eurotrials of many Physocarpus cultivars held a few years ago "Summer Wine" did not stand out and got just 1 star. This was mostly because it flowered reasonably well for a dark leafed Physocarpus.

Winners (3 stars) for dark leafed cultivars were:

== "All Black" (Minall2). Originated in France, do not know if it is available in the USA. Good dark leaf colour, reasonably slow growth, height much lower as many other cultivars.

== "Perspectiva". Originated in Czechia. Combination of dark red, bronze and green.

= "Little Angel" (Hoogi016) . Does not stay small but nice reddish-bronze leaf colour

= "Coppertina" Originated in France. One of the few cultivars that has decent autumn colour.

= "Rubella" Originated in Czechia. Very dark leaves with reddish glow. Shy flowerer.

The trials rapport is in Dutch but has many pictures of the cultivars so you get an indication of leaf colour etc.

Physocarpus Cultivars Eurotrial

Funny that the report mentions that mildew looks like an American problem that is hardly found in NW Europe. Mildew and size were the two reasons that had me dig up my 'Coppertina' here in Ontario.

I have many in my yard the standouts are Amber Jubilee and Center Glow. Summer Wine Black, from what I've seen so far, is a nice color improvement over Summer Wine which I always thought was more brownish looking. All of them seem to get some mildew here in MN, but it mostly happens in June and then they grow over it. Only once did I have one turn completely gray for some reason and that was Summer Wine.

Thanks everyone!

GardenHo - too funny - I have a cotinus Winecraft in a cart, waiting for me to hit "place order"! As I said, I can't make decisions so I will likely buy both the cotinus and the ninebark and decide once I see them. I'm looking for something about 6 feet tall so the cotinus may be too big in the long run for that spot.

One thing I need to get clarification on - is Summer Wine Black the same as Summer Wine? Or are they different plants?

I thought I recall reading that SWB has improved mildew resistance but after my afternoon of research yesterday my head is spinning so I may be imagining that!

Thanks for the pictures everyone - they are VERY helpful! And thanks Dutch, for that list. At this point (and this may change lol) I am more interested in foliage than blooms, so that Rubella may be worth looking into, even if it does remind me of a childhood disease lol.

Thank you all!

:)

Dee

Edited to add, I found BOTH Summer Wine Black and Summer Wine on Plants Addicts website, so if they have two listings I guess I can assume they are two different plants!

https://plantaddicts.com/summer-wine-black-ninebark

https://plantaddicts.com/summer-wine-ninebark

Edited again to add - thanks pennlake. You must have posted while I was typing so thanks for that confirmation that these are indeed two separate plants!

OMG! Edited once again to add - Dutch, you may have just created a ninebark monster lol! Wow, took a look at the link and so many beautiful looking ninebarks! Not sure how many made it or will make it to market but wow they look amazing!

Ugh! And THIS is why I have such a hard time making decisions! Went back to take another look at the Winecraft smokebush. One retailer says it grows to 4-6 feet. Another says 8 to 10. Who do you believe? This is why gardening drives me insane lol. Things like this adding to my already-indecisive nature!

:)

Dee

The patent holder lists the mature size as 6' x4'. Proven Winners, who has the marketing rights (currently) lists it as 10' x 8'. Who do you want to believe? 😖

Hahaha! I WANT to believe the 6x4! But this is how it works for me - If I wanted a 10' shrub, it would end up at 6'. I want the 6' so it will grow to 10'!

:)

Dee

PS. And I am terrified of pruning lol! I'm getting better, but it still scares me so I like to have things I don't have to maintain by pruning!

My Winecraft Black hasn't been knocked back by winter in a several years and it's well over my head.

PM is a real problem. They get very disfigured and I'm not sure they 'get over it.' I can't get over it. Spraying with 1% or skim milk really does work but it you wait until you see the disease it's already got a head start on you.

I think the brown ones are ugly. Coppertina is very pretty in the landscape. But think about

whether you can commit to the maintenance of this plant. BTW, it wouldn't win awards for winter interest if you care about that.

I don't see PM affecting native stands of ninebark (nor mine). I suspect like many PM, it's a response to drought stress.

In Mass We have had extended droughts in summer and dry 'open winters' for several years. I no longer plant material that needs ample regular water in summer because that doesnt describe New England summers any more (if it ever did) Case in point is viburnum plicatum tomentosom (sp) "mariesii". Love it, want another but it is the first shrub to wilt when it doesn't get the water it needs. It ugly when it droops. Unlike my hydrangeas it does not perk up in the morning. I would not expect physocarpus in New England to not get PM.

Yes, everything is changing (toward more extremes). We had like five months of no rain last mid-summer to fall. I watered my natives, not because I expected them to die if I didn't (though that might have happened to some of them), but because I wanted the yard to continue to look nice rather than 3/4 dead. Everything came out well, though I probably doubled or tripled my normal watering (which being single, I normally pay a minimum bill anyway).
In point of fact, things look much better than they normally do this year. I'm actually a bit mystified and glory in the ability for plants to have tolerated such a desert environment. I'm sure if it continues, things will be dying though, they can only stretch so far.

But things are 'a changin' that's for sure. Whether it's normal climatic drift or 'global warming' (which seems more like global uncertainty), things are becoming more marginal.
I'm a believer in the localized native plant movement, it's becoming more and more important to grow locally adapted native plants. As a rule, they can weather adverse weather better. They also support the local insects better (at least if no pesticides are applied). There are endangered pollinators and larger wildlife that depends on the local insect harvest, we should do what we can to support them with plants that support the food base.

I agree, dbarron. And thanks Marie, for your input. I think I will give the Summer Wine Black a try. I think the spot I'm planting it in will be good, and with all the weather uncertainty who can tell anymore what will happen? It's getting impossible to determine what will work where because who knows what will happen in any given season anymore?

Even my winter-sowing, which for the last 25 years has been almost fail-proof, is harder to do because of the now-normal one or two days of 90 degrees in April. The seedlings in the containers might fry in that heat, but then we have another 6 weeks of cold weather where they need to be in the containers. And if you sow as many containers as I do, you don't have time to open and close daily. Gardening has become a bigger gamble than it ever was!

Thank you everyone for your input! Much appreciated!

:)

Dee

I've had several Ninebark cultivars (Ginger Wine, Amber Jubilee and Tiny Wine) in the ground for 6+ years now in upstate NY, and having gone through numerous hot and drought-stricken stretches of summer (without any supplemental watering after initial establishment), I haven't seen of a speck of PM on any of them.

Sah67, I am interested in knowing how tall your Tiny Wine is.

I have purchased a couple and if it gets too tall, I will have to rethink its site.

I think my two ninebark are Diablo but I can't say for sure. Very dark foliage. I've had them about 8ish years and the one the deer don't bother is approx 7-8' tall, well over my head with no pruning other than keep it back some from the patio. It's tall, arching.

The other is on the hillside below the house where the deer regularly prune it. Ultimate height to be determined. Both get only a little summer water.

I'll try to keep the story of how I got them short but mention it to show you how tough (at least in my coastal Z8). My former neighbor volunteered at PAWS. She brought a mini-pin (miniature pinscher) home to a widowed neighbor she thought needed a companion. The dog was running through the recipients Spring garden and breaking things in the fenced back yard. So PAWS volunteering neighbor cut back her ninebark and passed along the clippings so neighbor #2 could poke barriers into the ground around her dahlias etc. They did change the dogs path. I think every one rooted. I was given two - and why I'm not clear on which variety they are.

I haven't noticed any foliage mildew or issues on the one closest to my patio. I rarely climb down the hill in back to check the health of the other up close - I mostly leave that area to DH and he wouldn't know mildew from chicken pox.

@sweet_betsy No AL Z7 Tiny Wine is my oldest ninebark and it's about 4.5 feet tall now and about 3 feet wide. It definitely can get wider than that, but I've selectively pruned it on occasion to avoid it overcrowding its neighbors with its typical (for a ninebark) arching habit. It did grow more upright when it was younger, but now that it seems to have "maxed" out at its current height, the downward arching is much more pronounced on the older stems.

It's worth noting that it does tend to layer (root) pretty easily where the arching stems start contacting the soil, in case that's a concern.

Thank you for your reply

Hi Dee-I don't get powdery mildew on my Physocarpus but I'm not sure which varieties I have. One is a wine variety-Tiny Wine maybe. I don't prune it much and it stays in that arching five or so foot range. These things are like Hydrangea grandifloras to me...limelight/quickfire this, that and the other thing...l can't keep track...lol.

I do know that I have Amber Jubilee and I like it. The spring foliage is a glowing golden orange. It hasn't grown much but it's in my dry crap soil garden next to the driveway. Lemon Candy was the only one I've shovel pruned. The size was much larger than I expected and it had long gangly form.

Sue

I'm late to the story, but I just wanted to say I have a magic un-touch with ninebark. I have Amber Jubilee and Lemon Candy, and both are barely bigger than when they were planted five years ago. Amber Jubilee is barely hanging on it seems, sometimes. I have no idea why they aren't growing, but they are supposed to be "can handle everything" plants. Lemon Candy is doing a big better even though a caterpillar defoliates it every summer.

Thanks Sue, Deanna, and sah67! I appreciate the input.

I do think I am going to give the Summer Wine Black a try. I was leaning towards a cotinus but am scared off by the wildly varying sizing reports. I think the physocarpus will be more manageable and it will be in a fairly open, breezy spot so hopefully any PM issues will not occur. May also just throw a Ginger Wine in the cart too....

:)

Dee

Lemon Candy Ninebark in bloom now:

Rouge, yours is lush. Excellent specimen!

Mine is hanging in there admirably. I think even with last year’s drought it has improved and this year looks pretty good. It is the anchor at the end of my path behind rock, helping to tie all the golden elements together and teasing me into the sunlight:

This year it looks pretty good (opposite side vantage)

It has never bloomed nearly as well as yours. We’ll see what happens this year. Overall, despite it’s questionable beginning, I have to admit I would buy another one if I could find it.

Dee here it is this year...even fuller!

Thank you, everyone, for continuing to add to this thread and for your continued comments. I so appreciate the input. And love the photos! Thanks!

I did go ahead and get the Summer Wine Black. (I did not get the cotinus Winecraft Black - just too much variation in the size descriptions at this point)

The plant I received is small but quite nice-looking and healthy. I have not planted it yet but I have it out near the bed and I can already tell I think I'm going to like the look of the apricots blooms against the dark foliage.

I'm still a bit afraid of the size lol - I seem to have a fear of plants over 4 feet tall haha - but I am ready to take the plunge. I just need to make sure to give it enough room so I don't have to move things later. One of my weaknesses - planting things too close to each other!

Thanks everyone!

:)

Dee

I have the 'Summer Seward's Wine'. I just looked it up and I bought it in 2005 at the Three Sisters Sale. I had it in a shadier area and it didn't do well, so I moved it to face West and it has not moved since then. I enjoy mine. So do the pollinators. I'll try to get a photo this week but it's so gray out there.