Last I heard, there was a hostile takeover, with many of the current leaders/workers, that used to frequent this board were pushed out.

Never heard anymore.

OMG, how much money can there be in such a benign special interest group like ACS? Or am I really that naive? Same kind of effort to commercialize the old GW?

Is it also the reason why many moved to FB with just as many deriding the move? (rhetorical question)

The new website sucks ('scuse my French!!). The conifer database - an invaluable reference tool - now appears to be only available to paid members, whereas previously anyone could access. If this is not true, someone please fill me in, as my numerous attempts to access always wind up at a what-price-membership-do-you-want page.

IME, most plant societies, whether national or international, that have taken the time to compile a database offers it without charge to anyone that wishes to access it. Membership in NOT a requirement!

I’m no longer a member and I accessed the database via the pull down menu in the top right. Very clumsy from what it used to be.

tj

ETA They may still be working on it. I used their advanced search on Picea pungens Hoopsii (from their own pull downs) and the seach result was Nothing Found.

I am not an ACS member, but I can access the Conifer Database. However, some searches work, others don't, see below.

I searched for Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana Gracilis' and found it.

However, I tried to search for Platycladus orientalis 'Morgan' and the pulldown for the cultivar name does not work.

Tried again but the database still does not work for me. The only thing that shows up is a search option by cultivar, nothing more. No dropdown and nothing that looks like those screenshots^^^.

Try a different browser. I use the 'Microsoft Edge' browser that comes with Windows.

Nonetheless, the fact that people see different things point to glitches of the database itself.

So gal, next to the Cultivar button you don’t see Advanced? I’m on an iphone using Safari.

tj

I am no longer a member of ACS.

I just tried to look up Picea mariana in their database and it came up fine. It was when i selected a cultivar that it got weird. I even selected a cultivar from the available list and all it showed was 'Picea mariana', recommended zone was z5, dwarf with no other information or pictures.

Almost like the site is incomplete. Certainly not the same as it was.

It used to be fun to look things up.

Following Bill's footsteps, this is what I got, another pointer that there are glitches in the database itself.

Searching for Picea mariana 'Empetroides' I got the search result on the right which looks fine.

However, clicking the link in the search result (for Picea mariana 'Empetroides') yields the following which is not fine. I clicked the link in the search result for a different cultivar Picea mariana 'Aurea' and it shows the same thing as below.

It will take the ACS a while to sort out the database. In the meantime, how do we help ourselves? Plant Finder of Missouri Botanical Garden, Iseli, what else?

https://www.conifers.org/

Isn't the Gymnosperm database more for scientists than for gardeners?

It tells you the usda hardiness of a tree, the mature size and other information, even a native range map.

What more does a gardener need.

https://www.conifers.org/pi/Tsuga_canadensis.php

" What more does a gardener need. "

Details about specific cultivars, which I find far more useful than just species level info.

Good point!

In my zone, I've never considered cultivars, although no doubt there will be some that will grow here.

But the OP did ask for other sources. :-)

Well, in my zone dwarf conifer cultivars are getting sparse :-(

With species, I could plant perhaps 2 in my front yard and 2 in my backyard and it wouldn't look particularly good either LOL

Gosh, I've been gardening professionally and associated with a number of nurseries in my area for the last 30 years or so and I don't know anyone that has deliberately purchased and planted a straight species conifer. Unless something rather unique or with few, if any, named cultivars like monkey puzzle or my latest little collector treasure, Lagarostrobos franklinii. And most local nurseries don't carry any species other than some native nurseries for reforestation purpose. Any native conifer species you find here are simply too large for the average garden.

Almost always it will be a named cultivar with slower/smaller growth habit or a distinctive feature not apparent with the species. Fortunately, most better retail nurseries here buy from the many great conifer growers and wholesalers that populate this region - Iseli, Stanley and Sons, Western Evergreen, Peace of Mind, etc. - so selection is pretty broad.

Once all my trees mature, it's going to look pretty wooded.

I probably won't have to worry about it.

GG, we all don't live in the land of the Giants, ;-)

but you'll find species trees at many nurseries in my state and more.

Here's a link to svedbergs nursery in battle lake MN. Both pine and spruce species sold and though I didn't check Gerten's in the cities, I'm sure they have them too. But again, 40-60 ft. trees are more the norm for species here.

It depends on yard size and location but many yards in my town have large trees growing, some look pretty wooded.

At my previous property (same zone) I planted 100+ specimens of species arborvitae as a hedge surrounding my backyard. That went very well because of the dense spacing. I chose species arborvitae because they are native around here and the hedge is a monoculture, the hedge will only die if the native arborvitae forests around here die. I posted a detail write up here years ago.

At my present property, my fenced in backyard and my open front yard have different microclimates. The backyard feels cooler to a human, but the sheltering effect of the fences allow for more tender plants, I am still figuring it all out, now without the ACS database LOL

Not to bring bad tidings O. but just a block away, a Thuja o. hedge up and died.

The neighbor told me about it, and I asked if he watered it. He almost got mad.

No one has to water an established plant, right?

Well, after 3 years of drought to near drought, with large trees sucking the sandy ground dry, I'd say yes. Thuja o. after all is a moisture loving plant.

Did you move recently?

I just counted, I have 25 'species' Pine & Spruce with a Fir and Larix thrown in.

Half of them are planted along the south and southwest border of my back yard. There's 20 ft. of UROW south side of the trees and there's still a large opening smack in the middle of the yard. I do have one of the larger back yards in the neighborhood. A little trapezoid but 100' x 100' roughly.

I've been told to put the taller stuff towards the outside. And IME: the tall pines/spruce in the south, make a nice back drop for the shorter. more colorful trees and shrubs in front. And it works well too by adding 'privacy'. My best view is from the patio doors in the eating area but it's hard to beat a walk around the yard in first daylight with calm, cool breeze, viewing everything. :)

But I'm not a designer and I got a late start planting things in an empty yard after moving into town for retirement. :0)

I'm just glad I got done what I did while I could still do it. It's less work doing maintenance now than it was digging out trees from the woods and preparing planting areas to put them.

As an aside: Some 'species' are naturally 'dwarf' or intermediate. I think of my Canadian yew that grows 3-4" a year, if I don't forget to water them and my Ostry virginiana which will be lucky to grow to 20' at maturity, in my sandy, short season location.

I moved here more than a decade ago, but unlike royalty, I have to work for a living, and can't afford to employ a gardener or two.

Yeah, I surrounded the backyard of my previous property with a tall hedge to create kind of a living amphitheatre with smaller and smaller green towards the centre. Then came the epiphany that I like space, hence dwarf conifers at my present property and no surrounding green in the backyard. The ACS definition of dwarf conifers having growth rates between 1" to 6" per year is pure genius. The big range (6x) allows for height and spread differences to give a garden structure (and color) with the lowest maintenance of just about any other planting. I also use a lot of stone that need no maintenance LOL

FWIW, some years ago, I posted about conifers that look best from a 1', 10', 100' viewing distance. By working with the first two, you cut garden work by orders of magnitude.

Small trees are much easier than large ones that's for sure. Mine were small when I planted them, they just can't stop growing lol.

Yard work will be a thing of the past for me soon. A recent MRI revealed advanced degenerative arthritis, so another back surgery is looking imminent. Been fighting an aggressive form of cancer for the past 8 years too. Kinda changes your outlook on life and what's really important.

Me and DW been traveling more, a bucket list if you will.

But all is good, been fun, just time to change, again! lol

I'm sure I'll still be around, lurking mostly.

bill

Everyone has their own road to travel, I guess. Years ago, I admired dcsteg who gardened on a suburban lot and yet his photos were never crowded, wonderful, wonderful specimens that miraculously get enough sun! One day he announced his retirement from gardening and lacking tact, I asked whether it is possible at all to retire from a multiple decades old hobby. I regret asking that.

I remember him, knowledgeable and fun guy, I'm sure he understood. :-)

Well hang in there. I just didn't want to leave everybody wondering.

Onward and upward as they say. :-)

Yeah, head in the clouds and feet in the garden :-) I wish you well, whatever you do !

BTW: GG, how is that Lagarostrobos franklinii doing?

It seems to be doing fine although tbh, it hasn't grown much since I purchased it late last summer. But then, sources note how slow growing this species is so I guess I should not be surprised. 😒 It's just that one might expect a tree that can live more than 1000 years and reach heights of 60 feet or more would put on growth faster than many of the other dwarf conifers I grow.

Bill, I’m so sorry for all you’re going through. I wish you peace.

Well mathematically, if it takes 1000 yrs. to grow 60 ft. that would make an annual growth rate of ~3/4".

Even figuring mature height in half that (500 years) would make that a little less than 1-1/2" annually, so not too far off.

But it probably grows faster than that, just takes longer to reach mature height with the 'weeping' style of growth.

Just having a living conifer native to Tasmania AU. is pretty cool in itself.

Sounds zone 8 is right on.

We'll need some pictures at some point. ;-)

' Bill, I’m so sorry for all you’re going through. I wish you peace. '

Thanks!

And I'm fine. My working days are over but I can live with that. :-)

Things happen and they all work for good. Had the best Father's Day, with my kids telling me that they are better people because of me. It just doesn't get any better than that. Geez now I'm getting all choked up. Thanks again.

It started raining today. Looks to be an 'All day rain' which is a first here in quite a while. :-)

Still praying for you, Bill.

tj

I doubt that it takes the 1000 years to achieve a mature size :-)) It is just that this can be a very long lived conifer, with some specimens in native stands estimated at more than 2000 years old. It currently looks like a miniature version of the foliage photo on Wikipedia.

So sorry to hear of your health issues, Bill. My greatest concern with aging is my declining ability to garden as I used to. I am also arthritic - mainly knees and hands - and tire easily due to some compromised lung issues. I can manage only a couple of hours a day. And not even every day! Some days just involve a patrol around to see how things are doing or just watering. And some days I can't even manage that much effort :-))

I beg or borrow help whenever I can!!

As for the ACS database, I wonder if Ethan Johnson, Sean Callahan and Sara Malone are still invoved. They helped mold the old one into what it was.

tj

From what I understood, Sara M. was, for lack of a better word, 'fired' from her work with the web site.

Not sure all what went on, it was a real mess and I'm not sure if anything ever got resolved in a satisfactory manner for many of the original participants and founders of the ACS.

Too much for me to type

members were ejected from ACS

our lawyer filled lawsuit

ron

facebook page ; Friends of the American Conifer Society

Let's hope there is a copy of the old database that you can simply re-install, if not that can be a protracted pain inside the derriere ...

"Gosh, I've been gardening professionally and associated with a number of nurseries in my area for the last 30 years or so and I don't know anyone that has deliberately purchased and planted a straight species conifer."

Maybe more common in less conifer dominated regions of the country? Any local nursery in the mid-Atlantic will carry plain old white pines, for example. And blue spruce seedlings that are almost bound to become hideous in 20-30 years.

Anyhow back to the matter at hand, I don't have time to post a long harangue like I used to (everyone breaths sigh of relief) so I'll post a short one. Plant societies in the US seem more or less like anachronistic relics to me. I wish them the best but I'm glad I didn't join any or invest much of my time into them. If there was some kind of 'power struggle' within the ACS - I mean, who knows but that is what Bill and plantkiller IL implied - it's just another sign of their ever-increasing irrelevance. There's obviously just so little 'fresh blood' and 'fresh ideas' throughout that landscape (no pun intended!) Things like this website and social media fill most, but not all, of the niches they used to fill. Horticulture itself seems at a tipping point; yes the COVID years might have renewed interest in gardening, but I really doubt the new people coming into it want to join these stuffy 'societies'. They want to browse instagram, see plants they like, and go buy them.

That being said I do think it's important to contribute to the public sphere of horticulture, and at the beginning of the year I joined the Friends of the NCSU Arboretum. Yes, before I knew about their rare plant auction that just took place - It was happy timing that I got a plant I'd been looking for.

Gee davidrt, I was hoping for a long harangue. ;-)

I agree totally what you said about the diminishing importance of 'societies'. Probably why I left the ACS when all the hubbubs began.

My reason for joining was, I felt a little indebted because so many ACS members that frequented here, helped me so much with all my propagating/planting/growing projects, so that after some time, I figured my measly $45 a year or whatever it was for membership was just a small thank you.

Not to mention it was nice getting immediate access to the new conifer quarterlies as they came out. That was great reading on a cold winter day inside the house. And the database was great.

I found all sorts of trees that would grow in colder zones like Siberia and China, that I either chose not to plant or couldn't source but it was still so interesting reading about them. I used to look up the climates and geography of the areas that those trees would grow in, I found that all so fascinating!

And of course, I never could be a 'collector' with the zones I'm in, but plants are plants and although most of what I do would be on 'boring' side to most people (in warmer zones), I enjoyed it all as if they were the rarest plants in the world. Made me happy:-)

I always liked to grow thing ever since I was a kid and mom would break off part of a cactus she was growing and I'd plant it, and of course, water it to death, but hey, that's how you learn and that's how things are instilled in you, when you're young.

I'm not educated enough to comment of matters of ACS scope, and I do learn a lot looking up all the words you people post that aren't in my current vocabulary ;-), but anyways, I just wanted to let everyone know where I'm coming from on all this. ;-)

looking up all the words

The 'Microsoft Edge' web browser (comes with Windows) has a very nice feature. Highlight a word and the pop up window allows you, among other things, to look up the word.

A bit tangential, but I find it very, very useful, so I think I'd share.

The good news is, the future of what I would call 'serious' horticulture, seems very much secure. Just not in the US. The latest report of the RHS shows that their membership has hit an all time high.