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trad_dad_ch

Help! Kitchen layout dilemma

3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

Hi everybody,

We are building a house soon and are planning the kitchen. The floorplan is fixed for reasons I won't get into.

We are living and building in Switzerland, so assume that some standard measurements vary but it shouldn't matter too much. We have received feedback from a German speaking forum but my partner who has American family and certain ideas (fridge) that are more common in the US so we wanted to get a different perspective.

We are a family of soon four. Two adults, one teenager and one soon-toddler - potentially growing to five in a couple years, by when the teenager may be almost moved out.

We currently have four different layouts that each have pros and cons. I have attached a floor plan of the whole floor including the other rooms, along with all the options for the kitchen.

What do we want?

  • My partner would love an ice cube dispenser (ice maker with drawer won't cut it) which has turned out to be quite the design restriction because the only affordable option is a free-standing American style fridge.
  • She also wants the dining bay, see below
  • We are not planning a separate dining table - only for special occasions we would set one up in the living room area
  • I want an island feature where you can work as two or three people facing each other
  • I want a double sink - could also be two separate ones, a large and a small one
  • We want to optimize storage area, in particular drawers and would like to avid appliances on the counter top, except for the espresso machine and grinder, and a fruit bowl
  • The glass door to the terrace is big, has a nice view and gives a lot of light - we are torn as to how much we want to obstruct it with kitchen furniture
  • I would have liked an opportunity to sit bar-style but not elevated at the kitchen island but that is probably no longer happening in any of the layout options.
  • Oven and dishwasher elevated

Background:

Floorplan





We can still chose how to open the terrace door.

The entrance east of the kitchen is supposed to something like this:


The south window of the living area will be one of these, looking into a small forest:



The wood should match each other and also the tabletop of the dining table in the kitchen.

Surroundings

Note position of terrace, garden, street (quite) and compass. (North, south in this post refer to the floor plans not the cardinal directions)


Design:

It's supposed to be somewhere between modern clean New England and Scandinavian. We have a 3D model with the kitchen furniture that we selected. Pictures below.

Not correctly depicted:

  • The stone will be this one.
  • The bench and dining table should look somewhat like this:



  • The floor will be light colored tiles in the kitchen and wooden flooring in the living are



Kitchen layout options:

[Grid is 4 in per square]

Depicted above is the always status quo. We don't like how much the half-island protrudes in front of the terrace door. We also think the area is not well used for storage and counter top area.


Alternative 1 has the most storage area, the island is free standing (always two passages), the terrace door is less obstructed, the espresso machine has a good spot. There is a little more space for a separate dining table south of the kitchen. Also space for the kids to play...

Major concern is the width of the passages, less space around the dining bay and the general feel of the room because all features are vertical in the already very lengthy tube-like room. Also we lose the side-by-side food center with ice cube dispenser. I have confirmation from my partner that it's a possibility but a drawback ;-)



Alternative 2 has the least obstructed terrace door and the most space south of the kitchen. Storage is a bit less than the status quo but all of it is better in reach. The bay area might feel a bit cramped. The side-by-side is still possible southeast but not ideal. Not enough space for a double sink. Narrow passage right at the sink.



Alternative 3 maximizes drawer space and has a nice spot for the espresso machine. There is no dead corner and the island leaves more space west to the terrace door. The bay might feel crammed. Side-by-side might be possible but realistically makes the only passage to tight.

The sink is most accessible but at the same time we prefer the idea of hiding it as it's usually the area that's never tidy.



If you're still ready I want to already thank you. Even more appreciated are your ideas and comments :-)

I'll be around to answer questions!

Status Quo
Alternative 1
Alternative 2
Alternative 3

Comments (12)

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    You need to put USA feet and inches to these : ) and label. Walls, windows openings the bay etc.

    Label all appliances and sink

    Only the few will go bnack and convert all the cm . Call it lazy factor

    Nobody is squeezing into that dining spot past table legs

  • 3 years ago

    Replaced plot with measurements in inches.

    We have simulated the bay and it's fine for us.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    I'd start with the idea that nobody , even with seven kids, needs a laundry @ 10 x 14 feet. That could easily be walkin closet and laundry.

    I'll ask why a full bath, on a living floor with no bedroom. Can you do a four by six powder room?

    I don't know.... but I'd even consider reversing living and kitchen with a nice theft of space from laundry.

    I'd also reduce the door to terrace to six feet, line up with stair and corridor.

    Needs some work : )

  • 3 years ago

    You lost me at "free-standing food center"!


    Also, is "status quo" something already built, or some designer's offering?

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @Jan Moyer As stated, we cannot change the floor plan. I really don't want to get into this but just so that you believe me we can only realize so much living space and so much utility space by law. The laundry counts as utility space. The rest on this floor counts as living space.

    We want the full bath on this floor, no discussion. Please don't make me discuss the rest of the house. I posted that for context, so you know where everything is with respect to each other.


    @acm That's just a regular free standing American side-by-side refrigerator, called "food center" in German speaking countries, my bad.

    Nothing is built yet, status quo refers to the planning state with the architect* and the kitchen studio. The architect is primarily an intermediary with the construction company, not that helpful with design questions.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    you have nice sized hobs and fan assisted ovens in the Euro zone........as well extractor fans are likely quite various in styles..and not as expensive as in the US. For that reason I would eliminate the hob placements that are not against the walls you have. Can you start with that important element of cooking and ventilation and make some plans with hob and fan against a wall? that's what I would do for starters. You have a few configurations that do not offer that. I prefer the Liebherr type fridge freezer at 240 width. Have you noted those? American style fridge/freezer only if you are switching to the frozen case at the store....sorry about that.... dont you have the butcher/fishmonger/cheese and greengrocer on your daily outings?


    here's a Miele.. model slightly larger....there's Electrolux and Bosch also I believe.

    Mid Century Modern Kitchen - Fridge + Pantry + Ovens (KPKM) · More Info


  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @herbflavor

    The only point of having the free standing side-by-side refrigerator is the ice cube dispenser. If we decide to ditch that, there are plenty of built-in options that will suit us just fine.

    I was anticipating the suggestion to put the hob to the wall as having it more central seems to be Euro thing. Our main problem is that we definitely want the sink at the wall because that space is never tidy so for us it cannot be in the center. Add to that the tall cabinets that we need for oven, dishwasher, fridge and freezer, we don't have enough wall space.

    The only other way, except for the posted Alternative 2, that I can see is moving the hob in Alternative 1 to the east wall and eliminating the tall cabinets there. But then the dishwasher would be on the opposite side from the sink which I would hate.

    Keeping the dishwasher elevated next to only a single sink on the east wall woud result in at most 36 in of space in between sink and hob.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    In the US with multi person household and a fairly large space as yours...you would see two sinks.....One is "clean up" single sink near the dishwasher.....2nd is prep or secondary zone in another spot for emptyng things/getting water/ cleaning veggies/ entertainment etc. You have a double bowl sink....but here , the single cleanup w a secondary sink in a different spot is more likely . You have a big space but I see crisscrossing and not sure about the "zones" as we call it here. Your configurations are unusual.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    I think kitchen design in a lot of Europe has to be moveable since homes do not always come with kitchens like in NA I think adapting to a more European way of shopping for food is awesome . We have spent many visits in Europe where we stayed was usually a place where we used the kitchen and shopped every dya. I continue to shop often even back in Canada. I dislike ice or water dispensers on the front of a fridge they look messy . I will say thta a flor plan of the kitchen space with no appliances all windows and doorways marked is how you usually get help here Of course all inches and feet fo the US site . Many of us are designers so you will probably get some feed back on other things we spot so take the info you need and don't get too stressed about the rest. I am a kitchen designer first so my kitchen is a big deal for but I run a catering biz from my home too so my needs different from yours but I prefer European applainces when possible. Post a to scale plan of that space use graph paper to make it a bit easier for us to figure out certain spots

  • 3 years ago

    The floor plan is to scale with measurements in inches and all the kitchen plans are on graph paper. Grid is 4 in.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Are these correct? What is the one marked "A"?


  • 3 years ago

    These are correct. A = 107.5"