Didn't stores and other businesses offer charge accounts back then? I can't even count how many references to that I've seen in movies and other media of those times.

As costs rise and savings are spent down, many people have been resorting to credit to pay for essentials.

I had a few department store CCs, but I wasn't charging *everything*, including groceries, prescription drugs, even a cup of coffee.

Some businesses offered their own credit system, where you got a monthly bill. Our grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, all did that. No card required, they knew where you lived…probably next door to their family!

Income and spending percentage movements don't need to correlate. The stats cited are changes for the month, not the totals.

chisue, growth in income and spending is different from the level of income and spending. It's the level that counts for whether you're spending more or less than you earn. Personal income has and continues to exceed personal spending...or as they call it personal consumption expenditures.

" but I wasn't charging *everything*, including groceries, prescription drugs, even a cup of coffee."

There are a lot of different reasons for that beyond the illusion of easy credit.....Some stores prefer not taking cash, and some people prefer not carrying cash (less theft risk), and some people get bonuses by using their card (points or cash back). Still, too many people do rely too much of credit and pay too much on interest (any is too much when it comes to regular spending).

I remember my mother predicting how bad it would be if someone could pay for groceries with a credit card - that it would encourage people to overspend because they'd still be able to buy groceries regardless, but I think that's wrong-headed. I think the tendency to overspend is in the person, not the method of payment.

I wonder if the proliferation of legal ways to gamble - particularly on sports - has had anything to do with increasing spending (but we can't separate that from credit cards, because some of them take credit cards as payment?

Annie -- That's a relief!

I see the spending take a hit, then the government intervention during Covid. However, I've read that only the wealthiest 20% still have their Covid largess.

I have a credit card (Visa) from my bank that takes money out of my account as soon as I make a purchase. It is also an ATM card, but if I choose to use "credit", then I do not have to enter my secret code number, and normally I sign the receipt, unless I am using it online, and then I have to enter the three digit code on the back of the card.

I'm pretty good at keeping a minimum balance in my account. In the 1970s, my father taught me that I needed to keep at least $2,000 in my account, in case of an emergency.

" I have a credit card (Visa) from my bank that takes money out of my account as soon as I make a purchase. "

That's not a credit card, it's a debit card.

Lars, those are called debit cards.

In earlier days, when I was in my mid-20s. working and not making much money, paying on a house and a used car loan, I would use my credit card to buy groceries. It was a small grocery in a bigger town nearby. Well.......one day after they rang up all my groceries and bagged them, I whipped out my card. The manager was called over. He said to the effect of "We will no longer accept a credit card for these groceries!"

There were customers behind me. I was mortified and had to leave without my groceries. After that I made sure to at least try to make more than the minimal payment. And lived on lima beans and rice most months. I used the card mostly for car repairs. ugh.

Now days I don't have any credit cards except VISA and only use it to purchase items online and pay it off at the end of the month. But I understand when people are struggling how tempting and sometimes necessary it is to charge with them. The interest is a killer.

Lars, I've been keeping a much larger amount than that in my household account, practice that began with our concern something might come up with my mother. She's gone now and I should quit that, it's earning nothing in that account but in the last years I've become used to it being there. Unused.

PreCovid, I paid cash for most things. I began leaving my purse either at home or locked in the car not wanting my purse in a germy shopping cart or on a counter, taking only a credit card inside with me. I'm still doing things that way, groceries, hardware purchases, drug store, gas and Yes, Starbucks - and I have to say, that bill coming once a month will have a balance that makes me gasp some months.

Still, I've never spent more than we could pay end of month. That's - in my lifetime. I have never paid any interest on a credit card. I did have store credit cards - Bon, Nordstrom but bought nothing I couldn't clear at month's end.

I was barely pre-teen when my dad became ill and things were tight at home. Worried, and not happy being in charge of all, my mom shared a lot and I was helping with budgeting, meal planning, several things that I probably should have been left out of at a very young age. DH had 9 brothers and sisters so as you can imagine, things were tight there too and we both knew when to spend, when to wait for something. Good side of that...we were essentially always in agreement and in 50 years have never had a 'money fight'.

FWIW, I have a bank card like Lars - it can be run by merchants as either credit or debit, tho it's technically a debit card. I like not having to use my PIN in lots of places, but some POS machines do not allow for the option - mainly Publix supermarkets here.

Cash is becoming virtually obsolete for many people and transactions. Money is an illusion anyway, isn't it? I think the classic scifi predictions that one day we'd all just have credits, rather than dollars may be coming to pass eventually.

The difference between a debit card and a credit card is what happens to the charge when it reaches the bank. Debit charges are immediately subtracted from an account, credit card charges are accumulated and are billed and payable once a month. How a business handles or processes the card for input makes no difference.

Is the 'card' becoming obsolete? Replaced by something on the cell phone that's grafted to your body?

As I understand it, Apple Pay and Google Pay generally use the same communication link as contactless Tap to Pay credit/debit bank cards. So not something different, just different hardware to do the same thing.

This symbol at the register:

Perhaps limits on charge cards have gone up? In the late '70's, early 80's I worked retail. Every credit card was swiped in a machine. Sometimes the card was declined due to insufficient funds. Usually the customer pulled out a different card that allowed the purchase to proceed.

" Perhaps limits on charge cards have gone up? "

They would have had to have gone up, as prices have gone up.

What I find interesting is that tap limits have gone up here for touchless purchases. When Covid hit, everyone was encouraged to tap rather than insert their card and input their PIN, to avoid touching surfaces. Suddenly people went from tapping for their $3 coffee and purchases under $30 or so, to tapping for their $200 Costco trip. Limits increased substantially to keep pace, I think.

In the US, I believe the only "limit" that applies with a credit card is the overall balance limit for the account. The credit limit for my primary cards creeps up over time without request and is now at a level that exceeds my normal annual charges that result from extensive use. Many cards, like American Express, can be had with an unlimited balance.

The "tap", just like an insert or slide, is simply the means for the machine to acquire the card's identity. A tap or insert is more secure because the data stored on the chip is encrypted and is viewed as safe from forgery or spoofing. There is no one time tap or use limit and it certainly doesn't depend on the data access route used for the card by the customer.

Banking practices in Canada can differ substantially from those in the US. If you didn't know that before, you know that now.

I had to look twice at the title of this post, and the OP, because it sounds so much like an Old Joyful post!

" Banking practices in Canada can differ substantially from those in the US. If you didn't know that before, you know that now. "

I did indeed, and the US has been far behind the rest of the world in credit card security for a long time. It's nice to see they're finally adopting hand-held wireless units, and PINs instead of signatures. In Europe, I saw more than a few places where the numbers were on a touch screen, and would change location with every purchase - that way no one could see the pattern of your fingers and know your PIN, so there's less impetus to steal it. I thought it was a challenging thing to get used to, but a great security addition.

Not among the Canadians I know! And I know a lot of them. I am a Canadian. I really like most Americans.💕

Maybe the few Canadians that you know are different.

My debit card can be processed as a debit or credit and just like Lars and Carol I can choose either option most places. The payout is the same from the bank as far as I know. There might be a different fee for the merchant though.

Historically most people had charge accounts and often paid quarterly because that is how people were often paid in the past. You got your quarterly salary and paid your quarterly bills. Dividends were often paid quarterly. Rents were quarterly. In farming communities people paid bills when crops were sold.

I know someone who gets outraged at the Credit Card company increasing her limit because she sees it as entrapment. I tell her you do not have to spend to the limit. She did not get it.

When I have to use a credit card I always pay it off unless I mindlessly forget to pay it. My major credit card is on autopay though. I understand how people get in trouble when they suddenly cant pay but I once lived on steamed cabbage and eggs because I didn't get paid at work due to having an idiot for a supervisor who didn't file the paper work then wouldn't ask how to fix the fact I had not gotten paid (federal) nightmare but I managed. Cabbage was 10 cents a pound at the time. Oddly I still would eat lightly steamed cabbage if my husband would.

I think if you have kids, you're probably not going to be able to get them to live on eggs and cabbage...

I, too, was taught to have several months of rent on hand in case of emergency. I use my credit card and pay it off every month.

Years ago I used my debit card for most purchases but when $2k went missing from my checking account (just before the mortgage payment was due!) where the purchases were at toys'r'us and home depot thousands of miles away in San Diego, I found out that credit cards have more fraud protections than debit cards, hence I stopped using my debit card except at cash machines on occasion.

The credit union covered the fraudulent purchases, but they were not at all apologetic about it, in fact they seemed to suspect me, which was maddening. I asked if they would be trying to track down how it happened and they said no. I filed a police report and found out that, at many stores, the day's transactions are vulnerable to theft and that likely my number was obtained that way and used to produce a plastic card. So, using debit as credit (without the PIN) seemed risky to me after that.

I'm a bit vague on the details these 15 years later, but I do believe credit cards offer better legal protections from fraud than debit cards (seems to me those laws should be strengthened).

And that is why you might decide to use your debit card in Credit card mode. For the additional protection.

Does using a debit card as a credit card give you fraud protection as though it were really a credit card?

The new chip technology seems to work against fraud, at least for me. So maybe my experience years ago can't happen today anyway. I posted about it almost reflexivly because it was shocking to me at the time.

carol, I did not understand your post about mote and beam. I had never heard of it before. I’ve just read about it.

Well, another good day! I learned something interesting. 🧑🏻‍🎓

The debit card that can also be used as a credit card is not available in Canada. As far as I know.

The above threads re jealousy toward usa and canada is astounding to me. These 2 coontries share the world’s longest undefended border. The US is canada’s largest trading partner, both countries fight on the same side in battlefields. Our soldiers die together. Canadians shed many tears after 9/11. Our values and culture are often intertwined. In the end, there is more commonality than differences. Folk cross the border easily and freely.

We share many common sports, oh and some are born in Canada..Basketball!

Canada’s northern waters supplies electrical energy, well below the 48th.

Further, one could readily visit the other country, and stay for long time periods i.e 6 months. If one is truly jealous (highly doubtful) immigrating is also very dooable.

I would like to think that America and Canada will forever remain close allies.

100% likestone!

I’m not sure about the debit card/credit card thing either. I pay everything with a credit card and just pay my bill fully at the end of the month. I’ve never not paid a statement in full. I’m fortunate that I’ve always had more money coming in than going out.

I usually have about $25 on me but that can last for months.

@User $25 in my wallet…lol! Yeah thats me, I cant count how many times i’ve spent it, didn't replace it, then couldn’t buy something in a cash only situation i.e. flea market etc.

Was just in London no cash accepted anywhere, contactless only.

In the 20 years we rented our Maui condo, I developed a preference for Canadian guests. I think their mothers 'raised them right'!