Berry, I will have to figure out where to put him. A rosearian on Facebook showcased her pictures of The Prince and I was smitten. It is so nice to find some of these beautiful Austins

I was a knucklehead ( still am ) to let someone take my WS2000 . I never would have guessed to find another for less than the original. It's exciting to get it as an own root. The last WS2000 was grafted , which I loathe ever since a beautiful rose died back and a hideous orange root stock reared it's ugly head.

One more thing about WS2000 , the fragrance is kind of strange. Straw calls it a violet scent.

I also ordered WS2000 after seeing straw’s photoes. I no longer grudge about not getting Munstead Wood for ”out of stock”.

forever_a_newbie_VA8 You'll be so glad you got WS2000, the blooms are just outrageously opulent. I suppose Munstead has a better scent from what I have heard , you can't have everything - but we sure try.

@Paul 😀 We are going to nominate you to watch for photo infractions.

I didnt say anything to Nate last time. Because you brought it up again, I sent him a gentle reminder.

Nate is a kind soul. Let’s help him and not tear him down when he is trying to get started.

Berrypie,

I actually think WS2000 has better scent than Munstead…stronger and more exotic, like rosy violets. But hard to beat Munstead flower power and garden value.

I ordered WS2000, Tradescant, and The Prince from Garden Roses LLC. A friend sent me a rooted cutting of The Prince, so I might switch him out for Falstaff. All deep reds that burn easily in my hot sun, I am a glutton for punishment.

@The Rose Geek

"Nate is a kind soul. Let’s help him and not tear him down when he is trying to get started."

I'm sure he is - that's not at issue. Nobody is trying to "tear him down". However, ideally Nate wouldn't be giving us any reason to question his business practices. In my view, that's not the case.

@Paul I am thinking about a lot of vendors that start websites to sell roses. They are so enthusiastic and want to support the rose community. Their intentions are in the right place and many make the same mistake of using HMF for photos. None are dishonest, they just do’t know better.

As a Consulting Rosariian, we share, guide, and nurture a love of roses. With that, I am choosing to support Nate.

Happy Holidays.

LOVE your videos The Rose Geek but my dog thinks they're sleepers literally.

As soon as I have any excellent close-up photos I'll see if Nate wants any of mine. I hope he won't be flooded with too many offers from eccentric people sending photos of the family dog ( well it was just one ) .

@berrypie, Your dog thinks the videos are sleepers?! 😂🤣 I will have to show them to our puppy then because she needs a nap from chewing on everything!

Thank you for sending photos if you are able. Extra points if your pup is included in the shot 😀

It's a deal.

Thank you, Rose Geek, for the video and being supportive of Nate. I see many sellers all use the same photos. I don’t know where they get them from. I am glad we support our rose sellers!

I researched the William Sh 2000 photo in HMF and it was posted by anonymous in Belgium. HMF has a place to send a personal message. Nate may have surely asked the photographer in messaging. Many are willing to happily share their photos with sellers. For anyone to assume” Nate did not, would be presumptive and not appropriate.

I am very supportive of Nate and his wonderful new business and am happy to acknowledge that to my knowledge he is doing well with his business and honest!

Have a lovely and happy garden day!

"I have had good experiences with Peter at Freedom Gardens. Some roses are really harder to root than others ,obviously, and that custom rooting takes alot of time and effort."

It's important to remember that what Peter provides is a custom rooting service, and there is some risk built into that model of business. Requesting propagation of a variety does not guarantee that you'll receive it within a specific timeline, and in fact it doesn't guarantee that you'll receive it at all. Propagation is subject to a number of pressures which the nurseryman doesn't always have any control over. Some years, you get excellent results when rooting a variety of roses, and some years, you get nothing for your effort.

Any nursery that custom propagates a rose for you for less that $50 is basically doing it for the pleasure of doing it, not to make meaningful income. The propagation of roses as own-root plants requires a minimum of a full year to produce a saleable plant (with a few exceptions), sometimes 2 full years. How would you place a dollar value on the work involved in such a task?

Kristine, Ausromeo, William Sh 2000 is amazing! I think, next to Munstead W. it may be my new best wine/purple rose! Looking forward to it’s fragrance! A great rose to add! The Prince sounds amazing, too!

Thank you, Ben and Berry, for your ideas on WS2000! He sounds wonderful!

So what are we buyers is supposed to do? i don't mind that they charge the proper rate upfront, then i know whether it’s worth to order or not.

One needs hope and patience and it is not for everyone, SoCal. Peter does as well as anyone could, I think.

I wish he would reply and say something, but silence is not the answer. it’s almost 2 weeks now. How long should a buyer wait. i did send an email asking for specific date for my refund, i still get no reply. Is this going to be another Chamblee situation? Who knows?

It sounds like I don't want to order from Peter. I am not patient for years for order. What if he closes shop during that time?

That’s the point, I've already wait for 2 years, how long do you expect to wait, 10 years, who knows if one of us is still here in 10 years? It’s a business and let’s proceed it as a business and not a charity, if it costs more to do custom propagation, state it up front.

i myself did root DD as a newbie, i got a tiny plant. i also bought from other nurseries like Angel gardens, maybe it was ALM, it’s a tiny plant when it arrives, i take the risk of not knowing if i can grow it to a large plant, but at least i have a plant, in this case, i have nothing.

Ok I could possibly find one more space so who should it be? The Prince or William Sh 2000 ? Different colors and both are beautiful so hard choice.

Propagating roses is an act of love. If I have a plant I really love, I would wait 10 years.

I hope he states that up front too, see how many customers he‘ll get.

@SoCalGardenNut

It sounds to me like taking the Freedom Gardens route isn't a good fit for your temperament. It might be better to seek a different source if the terms aren't to your liking.

Once upon a time there were roses I wanted, and waited five years to get from a custom propagation firm. Either you have the patience for it, or you don't.

Because I waited, I now have roses in the collection that are no longer offered anywhere, by any nursery. Seems to me it was worth it. ('Prairie Magic' comes to mind)

Kristine from info on hmf it sounds thhe Prince would be smaller.

WS2000 is a big in your face showstopper.

Thanks Berry The Prince may be the better choice,

Kristine, I read a few references on HMF & The National Gardening Assoc. Both roses could grow about 4-5ft w/ nurturing & 4-5” blooms. WS 2000 has cluster blooms, cupped shape. The Prince has globular blooms. Diane’s photos are amazing on The Prince. Try ‘em both?

However, WS2000 is available to order now. We are both on wait list for The Prince. I’m ordering WS2000 now because I want it & finally that “ will happen!” Don’t know when The Prince will be available…… so my spot is taken w/ WS2000. I’ll probably have both eventually, but now, no hurry.

How about you?

My The Prince is about 6 feet tall and five feet wide. It's blooms are quite large, about the size of my two Munstead Wood blooms. The forms of The Prince's blooms are quite variable and his color can vary from very dark, almost black, to red. He does it his way. He has improved over the years and is now a continuous bloomer. Thrips do like his blooms on occasion even though he is dark. We had record breaking continuous heat this past summer, but he persisted well, though some wonky blooms appeared when it got super hot. He's a great rose that takes some patience while he reaches his potential. My rose is grafted on multiflora. And I've grown him so long, I can't remember his seller. I'll check and maybe find the record of my purchase. Diane

June

September

Crazy September

October

Late October when the freezes came

@Paul Barden, last time i ordered from him, he couldn't root 2AL and one Mme Hardy, but he gave me my money back. This time he refused to give my money back when he couldnt root Sonia Rykiel, RadioTimes, and Potter and Moore. which customer would have that temperament?

How about this business model, root the roses that we want first, if the effort is successful, then he can take our money, much fairer to customers don’t you think.

In regard to Freedom Garden, I am actually with SoCalGardenNut and Rose Geek, and I never once criticized any grower in the forum, only praises. Peter might be a treasure to the rose community, but the way he handles problem is upsetting. I know he spends a lot of time with roses, but people are not roses :)

First of all, he should be more out front when things go wrong. Instead of leaving things in the dark and wait for customers to contact him, a simply apology and letting the customers know would have helped, and I would have waited another year without a blink.

Second, instead of recognizing issues with his business, he shifted the blame to the customer. Peter told me that my order was placed in 2022, so shipping is expected in 2024, despite the fact that I presented him with email evidence that I placed and paid in 2021, and the last email communication was in 2022, not the date of order.

Third, ignoring customer complaint. Because of the above, I decided to request a refund, then comes the silence.

Peter might be a treasure to rose community, but he lacks the honesty and integrity of running a business.

Sorry, to change the topic. I just checked my records, and I got The Prince from Palatine in 2009. I think I got my two Ascots from them about that time, too. I think they were my first Palatine purchases. OK. Back to the topic. Diane

Diane,
Thank you,,Your The Prince is stunning! Love your photos showing it’s shape & progressive colors from summer to fall. Due to it’s global shape, it looks little rounder than WS2000 when it blooms. Both have a beautiful type of bloom!

Kristine, Diane, I see usually the sellers put 4-5 ft, but I see many of my roses can reach easily 6 ft, too.

I visiting Heirloom Roses a year ago in fall & most average roses in their fields were 6-7 ft, actually over grown., not really the ones they care for much. How big? 8 inches?

However, hearing your Prince blooms were twice size of Munstead?

Diane,
Munsteads Wood bloom says HMF is 3.75 inches. So how big was your The Prince bloom?

SolCalGN,
Maybe Peter has many emails to answer…. A gentle reminder may help with the communication. I am sure he’d like to resolve it.

Some popular sellers are buried in emails.
TBest Wishes, Kitty

SoCalGardenNut,
I read Freedom Garden’s “Fine Print,” written explanation on his website of how he serves propogation orders.

Peter explains that it takes 1-2 years to have successful propogation grow. He explains that if one wishes to order please be oatient because propogation takes one to two years. He explains it takes his time/money to do this propogation thus the need for pre-ordering money up front is necessary. It also shows a commitment on customers part to his effort for 1-2 years to grow them a rose. He says that he discourages ordering for propogation if one isn’t patient.

I have asked another to propagate for me and always money is put up upfront first. I can’t see them operating with no money up front for 1-2 years and no commitment to that order by paying from customer. Then a customer could easily cancel order & he would receive nothing for his 1-2 years work.

Actually, I think his prices are sooooo low-he’s really doing us rosarians a go or being so reasonable financially.

It appears, in his explanation, that if he’s not successful propagating your order after 2 years, then a refund is more reasonable for him

Have you waited 2 years for your roses to be propogation from Peter, following his written explanation of his business?

Anyway, you may wish to read his explanation of propogation in his website. I understand that growing roses is a hit/miss biz when weather changes and plants can be fickle.

It is a privilege that Peter puts his dedication, time and effort to help our rose community propagate roses. A very tough business. It bud amazing he propagates so many roses…. Wow! What an amazing list of roses he is willing to grow and for only $25- that’s unbelievable inexpensive!!!

I hope you can work it out with Peter.
Have a lovely garden day!
Kitty

KttyKitty, yes i paid money in 2021, so that’s 2 year already. He is not charging $25, he is charging $50 for some roses. Honestly, last time i had my doubt about him, but he refunded me my money. i did tell myself not to order from him again, but i slipped and ordered again. i need to listen to my inner voices. I did read his explanation when i ordered and again today., thanks for reminding me. He sent me an email to say crop failure, he needs to refund me money, he asked for my paypal account, but he has not sent me my money as he did in 2020. i ordered from him in 2019 when he had a sale, but he refunded my money right away, this is after one year when he had crop failure.

And honestly, i dont care how much he charges, but he needs to be upfront with us before we do the ordering. His business model is try to root then if it fails and he asks for delays, saying he has tons of customers waiting for the same roses.

Maybe he should root a handful of very popular roses and then sell them after he's successful rooting them. I think he has high failure rate with most rare roses.

Maybe there is just a communication problem with Peter…. In getting back to you, SoCalGN?

SoCalGN,
I worked with another propagator that could not propagate a rose due to poor weather & other variables. It happens all the time. I appreciate her trying to help me.

If one really wants a specialty rose, one may need to be patient for years…. 2 years is minimal for some roses to get started….it is not a reliable biz where we can expect it always works in the 2 year time frame we want.

If you want guaranteed propogation, maybe it is best to not order propagated roses in future., just buy roses already grown.

$50 does sound much more reasonable; although really he’s working for free a lot even for $25-$50-a whole 2 years work for $50-who works for that. The Etsy sellers all want $69-$99 for their roses. Plants are often very inexpensive , but are the sellers able to stay in business.

$25-$50 are very reasonable prices. I really appreciate Peters labor of love.

Kitty, no communication problem, i got a hold of him about a week ago and he said yes he owes me money, he's going to send through Paypal, but i still dont have it yet.

Is that GRF? i hope i get Evelyn from her.

yeah, i love roses but i dont appreciate being ripped off either, i paid $19-22 per rose from Huntington Library, they all survive and do well in my garden. Etsy is a bit of a ripp off, but i know that going in. Very unexpected with Freedom Gardens.

You made a good point, i will not order any specialty roses, i’m looking forward to RU roses this coming Spring and that’s it.

SoCalGN,
PayPal is slow, but sounds like he already granted a refund so issue resolved & within the 2 years of his policy.

Hope you enjoy your RU roses! They are wonderful, too!

Seem we deviated from the threads focus on Nate’s new wonderful garden. I am so excited to see his rare roses, WS2000 and The Prince eventually!

Anymore gorgeous roses to order anyone from his rare roses?

Happy Gardening!

I have Paypal, it‘s almost instant. i didn't pay him through PayPal, i gave him my credit card number, so it’s not a refund through Paypal.

Thanks, I‘m looking forward to Barni roses from RU.

Looks like Garden Roses LLC will have a photography contest, presumably to have pics for the roses they sale. Seems like a really good solution.

Yeah that is a good solution. A lot of people would love to share their pictures

😀 I hope you will share your photos with Garden Roses LLC. As I stated earlier, I believe in Nate. I think he is trying and I appreciate those who kindly brought his photo needs to light.

I am having fun looking back in my photos to share with him and it is so fun to see the changes the garden has made.

This is the link with details for the contest.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0667/7921/8138/files/Garden_Roses_LLC_Photography_Contest.pdf?syclid=clevnqm5ji7s738b4t70&utm_campaign=emailmarketing_149544173786&utm_medium=email&utm_source=shopify_email&v=1700620170

Yes! A great idea! Wonderful contest!

Since this shows up in google search, I include the latest link for updates on Garden Roses LLC: 1) history of scamming 2) credit card fraud 3) it's in the quarantine zone of Lantern fly infestation with the risk of damage to agriculture across USA if shipped out.

Click on "see ... more comments" at the top of this post to see Garden Roses LLC is in the quarantined zone for lanternfly infestation.

See below link for latest updates on Garden Roses LLC:

Anyone get your roses from Garden Roses yet? (houzz.com)

Many people wait for a long time to receive only partial refunds from Garden Roses LLC. See below: Rose Vendor Feedback | Facebook

I paid for my roses in Oct, then paid for a second order in Nov. 2023.

Eight people informed in forum and Facebook groups that they got money back immediately from their credit card with disputed charges either online or call in.

My credit card dispute window is closed on my orders, so I could not dispute the charge online. I asked Tess for a refund on March 28. I got Garden Roses' email on April 5 that my orders are cancelled & refund being initiated. I don't want to wait forever for partial refund.

So on Monday April 8, I called my credit card company, telling them my pre-orders were in Oct & Nov, but GR failed to deliver roses. My credit card said they will contact Garden Roses. The next day, Tues. April 9, my credit card company returned me the money in full (deposited in my checking account).

I just reached out to both Nate and Tess, telling them I gave them the benefit of the doubt and would like to see where they are in the process of completing my order. Unfortunately I used my debit card rather than credit card. Do you think I should still try to get a refund? I have no reason to assume they'll make good now. $60 isn't a lot, but I could definitely have used it towards a different rose!

Aaron,

You could try. Best Wishes.