I'm in my 29th year of marriage, and while my husband over the years has at times caused me to jump up and down screaming with rage, he has never done anything as grave as what you describe. We have only your side of the situation, I note. An impartial counselor sounds like an excellent idea, someone for preference who can hear what both of you have to say--your spouse would have to agree to such a meeting. Is it possible for you to talk to her, explain that your joint situation is making you seriously unhappy, and get her to agree to counseling for you together? She may be unhappy and wanting help, too. If she agrees, it would be good for her to have a hand in choosing the counselor. Otherwise, go by yourself.

I'm sorry for your troubles.

I totally agree with roseseek and Melissa. There are always 2 sides to a story,and in almost all cases with problems between couples, the problem is on both sides, the "fault" can be divided usually 50-50 or almost. If she refuses to accept that there IS indeed a serious problem here and refuses to go get help together with you, go yourself. I, too, am very sorry for your problems and I, too, have often had very hard times with my husband. We've been together since around 1985... I know from experience that therapy does really help, even if only you go.

Brandon, I am so sorry for what you are going through. While I agree with others that there are 2 sides to every story, and we don’t have your wife’s perspective, still, it’s very hard to think of any justification for her deliberately destroying your poor rose, something that you loved, and threatening your others with the weed whacker. The financial set-up seems very wrong, too, with one member of the partnership having complete control (though at least at some point, you must have had the financial autonomy to buy the actual rose plants?) Who decided you are not good with finances? In an emergency, would you be able to/know how to access accounts, etc? As others have said, I agree that counseling is clearly in order here. One thing I’d like to add - if your wife balks at the idea, would she be willing to go for your daughter’s sake? Because I can’t believe that this is a healthy emotional environment for your little girl. Kids are very smart and sensitive, and I’m sure she’s picking up on the bad dynamics between you two. And even if she’s not showing any ill effects, she’s almost certainly internalizing it, and that can’t be good for her. In fact, I’d even say that maybe a few sessions with a therapist would be in order for your daughter.

I’m sending you my good wishes.

@User i am fine with admitting i am not good with finances. if there were to be an emergency i do know the bank info, and i do know how to pay bills. i think my biggest thing is remembering when the bills are due.

most of my roses are due to someone moving and giving them away. a few from gift cards from birthday/christmas. i have bought a few of them but few and far between.

we might do counciling. i think my hesitation is the fact that i have to deal with the fall out from whatever i may say to the councilor.

Brandon, I think you got some good comments above. If you seek therapy, remember that you should trust yourself and if a therapist doesn't seem like a good fit or if you have qualms about them you can try another therapist. If you seek therapy by yourself then what you say should be private. But facing problems definitely can have repercussions.

It takes courage to admit to a problem and to face uncertainty about how to solve it.

I wish you well also.

My brother just ended a long standing relationship . His girlfriend was abusive. I never knew. He is hopeful that he might meet someone new at his ripe old age of 75. It can be good to keep in mind that love , whether with your wife or someone else, can make it all worthwhile.

To remember paying your bills I find that a wall calendar is great. I use it to remember giving my dogs heart worm pills. I write down when I actually give them and when they're due again. I would not be able to keep track of it without this reminder.

Could be that in therapy you and your wife both would find ways you need to change and how to do it. Solving this could make you both happier not only together but with yourselves. It could be strengthening.

I take back what I said about maybe finding love with someone else. Hopefully things can be improved in your marriage. Probably deserves a good effort. I just meant to say that the suffering may turn a corner and the love you had may be renewed.

I have seen couples I know choose to "stay together for the children's sake" and after a decade of resenting each other, they ruined their children. So much for "doing it for the kids".

@paulbarden one of my coworkers whose parents' "stayed together for the kids" says that he wishes that his parents hadn't, so he would echo your sentiments.

@Brandon Garner unfortunately, there is no way to know what the best course to take is and no matter which you choose, you and the others involved will likely second guess and play the "what if?" game. If you're miserable, chances are very good so is your wife and as has been written, children aren't stupid. They often misconstrue and internalize what's happening around them so they believe it's their fault. There will be mistakes and hurt feelings no matter which direction it all heads. GET HELP. Whether you go together or have to go it alone, GET HELP. Your marriage may well be saved for the benefit of all involved, or it may be best to let it go, but none of you will ever know until the symptoms can be removed and the root causes exposed and examined. You can't do that by yourself. You all three deserve better than what you're living. GET HELP.

Brandon, I have to agree wholeheartedly with Kim. You (and your wife) can no longer be objective, and likely need that third party to mediate. And the longer you wait, the worse things will fester, and the lower the possibility of salvaging your marriage. I feel so badly for you, and I hope things work out best for all involved.

Also, on a more (very) cynical note, even though this is your safe place (we do care!), and we're all sympathetic, and your wife doesn't visit here, be very careful what you post. If it comes to separation, if your wife knows you are on this forum, your social media posts can and will be fair game and they can be tracked.

ABSOLUTELY! The Internet is forever. EVERYTHING you post, ever have posted or ever will post, exists somewhere and Google can eventually find nearly everything. One of the first things suggested to rose seedling raisers is if you ever consider patenting a seedling, NEVER post photos of it nor anything sufficient to definitively describe it on line as it WILL be found and it can start the clock on the time you have to patent it. I'm sure you're familiar with the saying, "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". ANYTHING you post that can be taken offensively can easily come back to BITE you badly. Not that you would, but forewarned is forearmed.

I’m in a situation with my husband of 25 yrs. The biggest issue we have is I want to communicate and be totally transparent but he avoids any kind of hard conversation. So that leaves the fumes building up inside of me until I can’t stand it. COMMUNICATION IS A MUST! We’ve been to many many counselors over the years. The last one 6 months ago told me he will never change. He actually said that with both of us in the room. We’ve talked about divorce but he back peddled on that when he found out how much money he would be losing to me. So we are still together alone in this house as our 2 daughters are grown. I’m miserable. He’s miserable. Not sure what will be our future. I did want to ask if the reason you didn’t buy any equipment to make the yard jobs easier was because you both agreed to not buy what you needed. If that wasn’t discussed then I see no problem with her wanting to buy them.

It is said that if you communicate when you are upset that your upsets won't have time to build out of proportion. Saying when something bothers you should be allowed in a real relationship. If you can't talk, then you can get in to passive/ aggresive behavior like getting rid of someone's favorite plant or socks or what have you. Or chronically "forgetting" to do something you said you'd do. Being able to express negative feelings keeps them smaller and you stay connected and you can care about someone if they talk to you about how they feel without trying to hurt you. I think some therapists might be skilled in teaching how to talk about grievances in a way that connects and doesn't alienate. Have you told her you are worried about your relationship? Do you ever talk about feelings?

She sounds a bit bossy to me. Why does she get to make the decisions about what equipment to buy? Do you have to ask her if it's ok for you to go out somewhere?

Did she really say she's going to attack your roses with a weedeater using those words? Was she joking?

@erasmus_gw i have told her my concerns about our relationship snd she has either turned it into a pity party or just said ok and walked away.

unless it is grocery shopping i ask before spending money. she will often talk about big purchases before hand but not always before she buys.

she wasnt joking about attacking my roses. several months ago she got made about the patio dining chairs being on the balcony and threw two of them into a couple of my rose bushes.

@tiffanyriffle no we dont agree sbout me not buying what i need. if there is an uncertainty or hesitation in me talking anout it being a need, my wife doesnt see it as a need and we font get it until it becomes a need for her.

I’m a dorry that you are in a rough place in your relationship. i hope that your future gets brighter

There's a lot of good advice above, so here are some of my thoughts.

There could be hundreds of reasons, or no reason at all, to love or hate a plant. Do you know what plants your wife likes? It sounds like she just dislike roses but is willing to do some gardening. It may help ease tensions that the two of you can sit down and discuss your and her favorite plants and mutually acceptable workflows together to redesign your garden. With less maintenance, a yard that always looks good is never a bad idea.

It's sad that this is happening. Of course I have no clue what is going on but I think it's possible she is going through something and maybe, just maybe, her aggression is not against you but could be about her. People do go through mid life crisis sometimes ..I don't know how old she is, but could be that a good portion of her stress is not caused by you or the relationship. Someone who met with you both would have a better idea.

Her favorite flower is the dandelion. she claims to like home grown veggies, but doesnt like to do the harvesting of them

@erasmus_gw she is 43, but this behavior has been going on for most of our marriage, especially for probably the last 15-16 years. with the people who know us both thing their opinion of us both is pretty heavily biased towards who they know best.

Forty-three is YOUNG. You both have a lot of life in front of you: best make an effort to make it happy.

Some relationships (and not only marital ones) are just irreparably broken, and can’t be fixed. When this is the case, it’s usually stuff that’s built up over many years, so maybe it’s inevitable. It’s utterly heartbreaking, but one can move on and find joy. If it’s just two adult people who are primarily involved, there’s probably at least some responsibility on both parts. But in this case, there are 3 primarily involved - you, your wife, and your daughter. And your daughter is completely an innocent bystander, and is not to blame for any of the problems. Yet she stands to be really really badly hurt by it, perhaps in fact to be the one who is hurt most of all. Eleven years old is an incredibly vulnerable age. Counseling may not be able to save the marriage (though it might!) but it could save your daughter’s well-being.

Once again, I’m sorry for what you are going through.

Brandon, if she's unwilling to seek counseling, then go by yourself. An objective, professional third party can provide you with the appropriate advice to either get her engaged or know what you must do to try and salvage what's left and/or know when and HOW to successfully walk away. Continuing on the way it's been for far too long is torture for all three of you. If you feel you all deserve better, do anything and everything you can to obtain professional help ASAP. Ideally, she'll accompany you. But, it's still completely worth the effort and cost to go it alone. Perhaps when she discovers you're talking about her to a therapist, she'll be sufficiently worried about how she's being portrayed, she'll go with you. Or not. Either way, you all deserve better than what you're living. Do whatever you can to get help!

“Happy wife, happy life”. What does she like to eat? Keep supply the food that she likes, You see more angry people when they are hungry. Chocolates are also good for angry souls. I am thinking she probably is going through menopause.

@Tiffany Riffle, I feel your comment got a bit lost in the others, which is understandable given that you've presented a different problem than the topic under consideration here. However, I did notice it. I understand you have a serious difficulty and, it sounds like, one not easily solved. Divorce in the circumstances you describe IS expensive. Is it possible for you to get out, without divorce if necessary, and support yourself? I don't know whether you're working, or, if so, earning an income adequate to do so. I also know that women who divorce in middle age often end up significantly poorer than when married. Being poor doesn't tend to promote happiness. Neither does being miserable in marriage. Is it possible for you to obtain a non-consensual divorce? Or one which is relatively financially unfavorable to you, but which will allow you to live at least having the economic basics? I suspect you have already thought of all this, but review it in case it throws a different light on your situation.

Seems to me that Brandon's wife is too young for menopause. But I do believe that young women can go through massive hormone changes every month and that it can jerk you around and make life stressful for the woman and those around her. PMS is real. Quite a few women suffer from it. I find that getting old has real rewards and is a big relief from hormonally driven mood swings. I don't know if that factors into her upsets or not.

The point is that things can get better. I think every person has responsibilities for their own happiness. There can be many avenues that open up to explore..ways to become happier and stronger and to make things better. Blaming all one's unhappiness on someone else is never the whole solution and blame can detour one from taking responsibility.

Things can get better individually but also together. Finding new and enjoyable things to do together can bring you together. Being open to finding those things together. To me when you justify acting out anger because you think someone has caused all your stress you are saying no to growing. A relationship can be a petri dish for personal growth. If she wants none of that it pays to recognize the unwillingness.

If she hates roses at that spot, is it possible to move them to a different spot? Can you take a few pics of the yard and the roses she damaged. There is always a way to fix it.

How many roses damaged/killed would it take for me? After the first one and the threats of more destruction. If my mate thinks it's acceptable to destroy things I love and take care of- for no reasonable or good reason- and threaten to do more... nope. It's not the roses, it's the abusive behavior. Whatever the reasons for it, treating your mate like that is not OK.

How to deal with it can have different paths or choices. You can sit on it and keep mum, try pacifying behaviors for them, try to keep talking it out, seek professional help- for yourself, for your mate and potentally your child. Try working on being more fiscally aware. Seek legal assistance with leaving the situation if it comes to that. If any of the roses are of particular importance to you, take cuttings as you can and find homes for those, just in case.

I think seeking legal counseling and marriage counseling would be good for Tiffany and Brandon. I think one can get a divorce even if one party does not want one.

I agree with beesneeds...it's abusive.

Here's an article in Psychology Today about setting boundaries with abusers. There are many other articles about boundaries. It's about being very clear about what you won't put up with and what your needs are.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201810/abusers-need-boundaries-how-assess-yours

@Brandon, you might also find a class on basic money management useful.

Beesneeds, I have to agree with you. Even without knowing the other side of the story, like I said earlier, it’s awfully hard to think of any possible justification for destroying the rose unless there’s something truly egregious going on that we’re not aware of. In any relationship, people do things that hurt each other, and so there’s almost certainly some kind of fault on both sides, but an abusive response is unacceptable. Emotional and verbal abuse are very, very real and very, very damaging. And when someone is abusive you have to protect yourself, and sometimes the best way to do that is to cut the person out of your life. Which is really painful, because, you know, it’s probably somebody you love (they’re the ones most capable of hurting you). But it can be a matter of survival. Still, in this situation, it’s different because of the little girl. Her needs have to be considered. That’s why therapy seems so essential here.

I am not saying that i am faultless that my wife gets mad at me. I rare rarely intentionally do something to make her mad. I think the last time i did something intentionally to make her mad was when i used ine of her shower towels to clean up ther water that she threw on me in a reaction to something that i either did or said that wound up making her mad in the first place. She then responded by soaking my shower towel. i think that because we were raised so differently from each other that that initially started the process and it has snowballed since.

New year means a new beginning. Start with cooking, simple and easy, prepare her favorites and make her a happy soul. And pay more attention to her, surprise her with little things, it won't hurt to take her out on the weekend. There is always a way around, seek the path to get your happiness back! It's never too late.

It is hard to comment on a situation when only one side is presented but I have to say it doesn’t sound like you even like one another. That cannot be a healthy situation for you, her or your daughter to be in.

According to you it’s been years. Sounds like time for a change.

If you want to try to save this marriage, seek counseling. Just not sure at this point there is anything of value to save.

I’m sorry your path has led to this but the misery tying you all together needs to be undone

From your last post, Brandon, it sounds just a bit like you are coming to her defense a little. My imagination says that when people conclude your wife is abusive you may feel like counting some of her good points. ??

I bet in marriage counselling a counsellor might ask you both to list out what you appreciate in the other and what you obect to. People aren't pure, don't have pure emotions..they have mixed feelings quite often. So if you can think on the ways you like her, and the things you can share, what strengths you have in your marriage, that gives you a solid picture of what's worth nurturing and preserving.

If you both committed to not acting on anger but learning to communicate unhappiness without hurting the other then you could rebuild trust. Just acting out anger destroys trust. You could work on finding that place where you're on each other's side. Find caring again.

She is not some ogre...internet people are not in a position to judge her. It's wrong to make threats and destroy property the other cares about but there is more to her than that I am sure.

I've yet to meet a couple who've been together a decade or more who did not have significant differences of opinion, needs, and ways of expressing themselves, which can easily lead to conflict. It's not the absence of these differences that make a successful pairing, but how the two deal with and adapt to these differences.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Brandon - almost everyone on here has recommended counseling, for both of you or just you if she does not want to do that. What I have not seen is any reaction from you to that idea - just wondering - what is your opinion about that?

Jackie

@jacqueline9CA I have thought about going to a councilor. my work even provides for something like 8 visits per year as part of the employee assistance program that it has.

My hesitancy is that there would be fall out from it and my wife already tries to use everything she can to turn my daughter against me. i don know if I am ready to give her potentially more ammo to do such

Counseling would give you points in your favor, Brandon.

I'm sorry to hear, Brandon. I understand there is often two sides to every story, but if your wife doesn't listen to you and consider your mental and emotional well-being, that won't get fixed.

I'm going to say a few truths that will be hated by many here, especially with the heavily female/blue bias present. Of course, I don't really care because they've ganged up on me before, and only a handful with sense defended me.

Women claim men don't communicate, but when we do, we're either ignored or called weak and get told to get a therapist, but feel a man should listen to and consider everything women have to say. If they're so grown, strong, and "independent", they would to do better than allow themselves to be driven by their feelings/emotions alone. That is not acceptable behaviour. They want you to accept them for them "the way they are", but heaven forbid if you hold them to that standard.

Why does a good marriage only center around the happiness of a woman? What about the happiness, peace, and well-being of the man? Men should never have to walk on eggshells and cater to a woman's every demand while she contributes nothing or makes life miserable in return. "Happy Wife, Happy Life" is a ton of bull. Sounds like she can spend whatever she likes, but you're not allowed to? I don't think so.

Frivolous spending must always be curbed, and a consumption, debt driven way of life/society is not sustainable. I can understand not being "good" with money, but as long as bills are paid on time, tummies are healthily filled, and savings for the future are being made, things are on the right path fiscally.

This sounds abusive, and unfortunately, the whole legal system is heavily biased in favour of women. Especially in the U.S.

Counseling won't do you any favours, since the therapist will take your wife's side as is more often than not the case.

This is incredibly disrespectful and a case piece for Western women especially. They will use anything they are able to against you and will manipulate and twist things far out of proportion.

If things are as bad as they seem from my point of view as a *real* man, and one that has no skin in the hetero game, pushing 40 (37) myself, and the child of divorced parents, you're either going to have to suffer, have an iron-clad prenuptial, or a damned good lawyer. My mother, for what it's worth, was adopted (and not aborted) and was raised high above her original station in life as presented by her biological family. That makes me a product of the adoption system, and I am uniquely positioned for my statements and outlook on many, many things.

My parents didn't stay together, and I can't stand either one of them. It made no difference to me whether they stayed together or not between the things both of them have said and done to me and my sister. EVERYTHING has a string attached, and the manipulation and blackmail were more than enough. They've both had plenty of chances.

My younger (1.5 years) sister also feels the same, but having children of her own, and being married to a great man in the Air Force (and NOT having children before marriage as is right and proper) and actually being a decent person, she does her best to keep them around, but even I as an Uncle am closer to those kids than either of their maternal grandparents, and that's sad and speaks volumes about their character. Why do the kids want to come to Uncle Steven's for "yummy food" instead of Grandma's? I'm flattered and love them to pieces, but being fortunate enough to have the best grandparents ever, I feel like it should be Grandma so well known for great food!

I've told both parents off within the last year, and it's one of the best, most liberating things I've ever done. Interestingly, my mother has continued to help me with things I'd never expect help with (furniture for my house, emerald green antique glass pieces I enjoy collecting). My brother-in-law told me one night when we were hanging out after my sister had taken to bed that I'm our mother's favourite. I find that very surprising, all things considered. I'm not even going to give her grandchildren. Maybe she's glad that no other woman will take her little boy away, I don't know, but that does tie in to the rest very well.

Life is too short to be miserable and stepped on.

May God bless you and grant you the clarity of sight and thought and give you strength as you go through this tumultuous time in life to find the best course of action.

Happy gardening and Years of Roses,

Steven

My wife has now decided that moving forward every time she deems that i have made her life more difficult either by intent or carelessness she is going to destroy a rose or donate a belonging of. all because i forgot to use a coupon, which saved 6$, on an amazon order. ( which was caught in time and canceled and mostly redone. the one item that she didnt redo i redid ten minutes later)

my daughter then told me she would be happier with me gone.

it might be time for me to leave this behind and start all over. if that happens i will most likely not do too many posts for awhile.

i think the best phrase for a marriage that i have seen, but definitely have not been able to replicate is ”Happy spouse, Happy house”

Wow, Brandon. I tend to sympathize with your side of things. I'm glad you are giving it thought and very glad you see options. You CAN make your life better. It seems to me that a lot of people care about you here and we will want to hear how you're doing. It could be a painful path ahead for awhile but on the other hand you may find some relief and clarity , hope and comfort fairly soon.

I think a good therapist would aim to help strengthen your ability to think for yourself, would help you see ways to be self- supporting emotionally, would give you a fishing pole, not a fish. You can do a lot for yourself.

One thing I find helpful is going on walks alone. It tends to clarify thoughts.

I wouldn't take your daughter's negativity as final. Many, many teenagers can lash out at parents and have major rebellion and be rejecting. Later many of them rediscover how much they love their parent. It can be hard to wait that out but if you try not to react too much you can be steadfast and she'll see it eventually, I hope.

Wishing you roses, too.

Brandon.... your spouse actively is turning your child against you. You are scared to get help because you fear help could be turned against you. It seems you are being fiscally controlled, at least to an extent. If you displease her, there are threats of destruction to things you care about- there has been destruction already. Along this line, I bet you are scared to divorce since that too could potentially be turned against you- and extra since men are often at a bit of a disadvantage in divorce situations. She does not sound like she is willing to work on the relationship. This thread started out troubling and has gotten worse as more information is coming out.

I think a counselor would really help you, Brandon. Many men are in abusive relationships and a counselor can help sort out fair solutions. A good lawyer could help too. Your daughter could figure it out in the end.

Brandon - it is great that your work provides counseling as part of your employee benefits! It seems to me that you can do this for yourself, and go alone, without having to tell your wife about it, if you are afraid of "fallout" from her finding out - I cannot imagine that any counseling for you that your work sets up would no be totally confidential.

If I was you, I would immediately talk with the Human Resources staff at your work about how to access the counseling, just for yourself.

Children who are in families where their parents are not getting along do and say many things that are a product of their discomfort, and/or attempts to make themselves feel safer, and you should not take them to heart. The first rule of being able to take care of other people is to take care of yourself first, so that you will be able to accomplish things you need to do to protect them.

Jackie

I have to take issue with Steven’s comment that a therapist will “take your wife’s side”. I’m not sure what he’s basing this on - if it’s experience, then he must not have had a very good therapist. If it’s not experience, then I don’t see how he would know. I have done a good deal of therapy, and can assure you, a decent therapist is not in the business of picking sides. Their job is to help you see more clearly. To see when you are falling into distorted and unhelpful thought patterns (which we all do at times). To examine the events of your past and your present, to understand how the conditions of your life have shaped you for good and ill, to face and mourn the traumas and losses and then move forward. To have compassion for yourself.To recognize and embrace the joy that is available for everybody, if we can learn how to find it. Walking away from a harmful, damaging relationship may be the best course of action, and ultimately the best thing for all concerned, but it’s going to hurt. You’ve been in this marriage for 19 years, and if you leave it, it’s going to be painful and you will absolutely need help coping with the loss, and getting through the mourning process.

I’m with Erasmus and Jaqueline re: your. daughter. This poor kid must be suffering a lot, totally aware of the tension between her parents and completely helpless to do anything about it. She may very well feel torn between you, as if she has to pick sides. I don’t know why she’d pick her mom’s, but maybe, just maybe, it’s because deep down, she knows you love her unconditionally, and that it’s safe for her to side with her mom because even so, you’ll always love and support her, even if she hurts you by siding with her mother. Jackie is so right - you have to take care of yourself before you can be of real help to anybody else.

I just wanted to give an update. I went ahead and started talking to a counselor/therapist this week. Someone else contacted the church leader of our congregation and he his going to talk to my wife about doing family counseling. so we shall see what happens.

GOOD.

That's facing things straight on and making the situation better. One way, or t'other.

Good luck, I hope it helps!! And thanks for the update.

I hope you find some peace and happiness moving forward, Brandon. Talking to someone has always been helpful for me when I had relationship conundrums, so I hope it will work for you too.

I didn't read this whole thread but I wanted to offer that I knew a couple who had an oddly similar issue -- she was the gardener (and a really great gardener at that) and he mostly stayed in the house. Once in a while he would get really angry (allegedly about some vine or rose that was "overgrown" and he "couldn't get past it" and he would prune the hell out of it, leaving the prunings laying on the ground for his wife to pick up. Now we all knew that this wasn't healthy, but the wife had the ability to roll her eyes, say some choice words under her breath, and toss the prunings into the yard waste bin. She knew that even though he butchered her plants, they would always grow back (and if they didn't she could easily find another plant she wanted to grow in their place). I'm not saying that this was acceptable behavior, but you should know that you are not alone.

We're all sending positive thoughts your way, Brandon, and we hope this works out with the best possible resolution, whatever that might be.

And I'll even instigate a *group hug* from all of us to you.

Brandon - good for you!

Jackie