I found the Miele a little persnickity because of having to add salt to a reservoir and do other little maintenance chores that I never had to do with American appliances. (Same with the condensing dryer). It was a great DW, and the clothes dryer was great too, but you had to remember to do things with them on a schedule.

Foodonastump Thank you for the very witty commentary! It was also helpful in the level of detail and the recommendations you made. LOL about the model numbers, which all the companies seem to love to complicate, making them like hieroglyphics.

Another vote for Bosch. We have the 800 series. It is 6 years old. It has been great. I pack it willy nilly and everything still comes out clean. Also I can attest to that if anyone were to happen to fall into the open dishwasher it still works. One problem recently came up and I think we need a new detergent dispenser as the jet dry leaks and I am having to fill it too often.

Consumer Reports Dishwasher Ratings and Reliability ($10/month digital)

Thank you for all the great points on dishwashers you are experienced with. Bosch certainly comes out the winner here!

I did also read consumer reports on dishwasher reliability, but the reviews of the products were different in some cases than CR's opinion, which is interesting.

"foodonastump: The only regular fail is oatmeal, but I've always felt that needs a rinse with any DW."

Hmm. Interesting. I never rinse before loading. My daily oatmeal bowls may sit for 1 to 5 or 6 days until the accumulating load is run. I never have failures on them.

I don’t know what to say. Not much oatmeal eaten here in mush form, but over the course of my life it’s been a fail for me consistently enough for me to rinse. Given it’s a daily dish for you, I’m happy for you that you’ve not had this issue.

Edit - This got me curious enough to check my costco receipts. I only bought the Finish on 9/26/23 and can't say for certain that I've "tested" oatmeal since as it's habitual to rinse it at this point. New test forthcoming! Interesting to see how often oatmeal is cited as being difficult, so it's not just me.

These pics were for discussions about prerinsing on another board. The first is a microwave boilover of oatmeal with raspberry jam from more than 12 years ago, condition as it went into and exited from my dishwasher (same unit I have today, it's now 20+yo). TBH, it was washed within a couple hrs of the incident. The bowl is on the plate for photographic clarity.

These are more typical, several weeks ago. The clean photo, the six white ceramic bowls were all morning oatmeal which waited to run until the afternoon of the 6th day. The detergent in both instances is a non-enzyme powder product.

Nice. What eould that ”non-enzyme powder product” be?

I have an LG dishwasher that I love. It runs so quietly; you do not the even hear it. Cleans beautifully. No issues. It has rave reviews.

I waited a year and a half for an available Bosch 800 mid pandemic. My white-in-color Kitchen Aid dishwasher was working, cleaning fine, but at approx 18 yrs old, while no rust anywhere was showing its age and was due for replacement. After several false promises, then being stood up for a delivery and installation appointment, no phone call and my call to them resulted in them suggesting a new delivery date of 6 more months out - I cancelled, was refunded and replaced it with another Kitchen Aid. Its fine. Its quiet, does everything its supposed to do, has a area in the top third rack that will take all the mugs and drinking glasses two people use in a day (they lay mostly on their sides and have a cleaver little spray tubing that cleans the insides meticulously), holds many, many pieces overall and 2 of the three racks easily adjustable in height...

I haven't been sorry.

The stainless finish does not streak or show fingerprints unlike my sisters 3 yr old Bosch. I think I've used Weiman's stainless cleaner/polish on it twice in the last year. It was the same price as the Bosch 800 however.

Miele was out of the question, we're a small coastal community and nearest authorized service is 125 miles away. That doesn't mean I couldn't get service - it does mean I couldn't get service promptly. Never ever try to take away my clothes or dishwasher - I wouldn't deal well at all.

I have a 20 year old Bosch at one place and a seven year old 800 series at the other. I would buy another even though the newer one required a new main board and control board last year to the tune of $500, 5 visits from the repair person and about four weeks with no dishwasher. I do rinse things because we don't run it every day and I can't stand the thought of gross food debris sitting in there for several days. I bought a top of the line Miele (twice the price of the 800 Bosch) when we remodeled the kitchen at our last house. It had an unsolvable problem with etching glassware - so much for the crystal cycle. Actually I ended up using only that cycle because Miele told me the problem was caused by water too soft and too hot. I still never put any good glassware in the dishwasher for fear of ruining it. No such problem with Bosch. I'll never buy another overpriced Miele product after that experience. I also find my Dyson cordless stick vacuum performs better than my Miele canister so another nail in the Miele coffin.

Before you purchase any kind of appliance, you should always look up who the service people are in your area for the particular brand.

Bosch. I've had two in two different homes and never a problem. The racks are super flexible and hold a lot. I love the third tray as a silverware rack. It enables me to ditch the silverware basket and have more room for pots on the lower rack.

I despise my Bosch (sorry, don't know the model, as I'm at work), which is only a year old. Seriously, I want to cry every time I think that I'm stuck with this thing for years:

- The main thing is the odd-small tines in the rack; only the smallest, thinnest dishes fit in the racks, and the whole thing fits fewer dishes than any dishwasher I've owned in the past.

- It cleans plates, bowls, etc. well enough, but it does a crappy job on pots and pans. I often find myself re-washing something that's run through the machine.

- I do like that it has two small silverware baskets ... I usually only need to use one, so that space can go towards other items.

- It is quiet.

I am new to this site and the caliber, civility and generosity of the members here is impressive! Thank you all so much!

I agree that the service end of the equation is a critical one. The authorized service people for warranty work are different here from the local service people who do non-warranty work (and they are generally much better than the warranty service people, unfortunately).

I had not considered LG or Kitchenaid before coming to this group. I have an LG washing machine that has done well, but I have learned that appliance makers have strengths, where they make certain products well and others not as well, so I need to look into reliability in their dishwashers.

Love the oatmeal tests!

Thank you again for the kindness and the great info!

I used a Bosch several times when helping a friend move from an apartment to a house. I ran some loads of his grandmother's china, typical other dinnerware/glassware/plasticware, and cookware. I despised the racking, but didn't have sufficient exposure time to potentially get accustomed to the quirks.

The best racking of any dishwasher I've used to-date is the 1975 KitchenAid my parents had and the 1991 KitchenAid I bought to replace the icky low-end early 1980s Frigidaire that was in my first house. That classic KA rack design, sadly, is no more.

One of my aunts had a succession of three KitchenAids from the mid 1970s to a few years ago when they got a Bosch. They like the Bosch. I don't know the model.

My current machine is a Fisher & Paykel DishDrawer, Aug 2003 purchase date.

Regards to the powder detergent mentioned above ... Cascade Fryer Boil Out, which is a commercially-oriented bleach-based product with phosphates (which has been discontinued but can possibly be found on that "bay" site).

I've got a Miele now, and I love it. But we had a Whirlpool for 11 years that was pretty great. Quieter than our Miele, didn't clean quite as well. It didn't fit our wineglasses well, and the middle rack was difficult to adjust. The plate racking was excellent though, and Whirlpool has probably improved racking options to compete. Whirlpool/Kitchenaid are definitely worth a look, especially if they have good service availability in your area.

“only the smallest, thinnest dishes fit in the racks”

Theresa - There’s no right or wrong here, as it’s going to depend on one’s dishes and needs. I could see where some heavy stoneware might not fit well, esp if the plates have somewhar of a bowl-like edge. But for me, coming from a Miele then Bosch to a GE, I couldn’t stand how much space was wasted by the wide spacing of my old GE’s tines. Invariably I get this same feeling any time I help load the wide-tined dishwashers at others’ houses.

The fact that you’re still unhappy after a year suggests that you’ve just got a bad match for your purposes. In my kitchen the dishwasher is probably the second most used appliance, second only to the fridge, and also the second cheapest, second only to the microwave. I’d replace it if I hated it. If you buy a new dishwasher for $1000, that’s expected to last ten years, that’s $100/year. 27¢ a day. Less if you get a few bucks for your one year old Bosch, as you certainly could. Not worth crying over for the next nine years.

While quickly staged, hese pics are fairly representative of how the bottom rack of my DW gets loaded on a daily basis:

mcarroll16 Which Miele did you get that you like? I would also like to know the model number of the LG kculbers has, to add to my growing list of possibilities thanks to all of you. ❤️ We need appliance emojis here!

Under the KitchenAid brand, the 400 series has quite a few features for the price. It includes five washer, arms, plenty of cycles, a roomy, upper third rack, quiet at 44 dB, and best of all.(from my perspective anyway.), no filter that you have to take out and rinse off every three or four weeks. There are lots of model series in the KitchenAid line with a few being more expensive than this one as well as some with fewer features. IMO, I think this one hits the sweet spot for features versus price and value. reviews and ratings on this series are very solid overall (4.7/5). Also, the 400 series can be had with either front control which some people like or top mounted/hidden controls with an indicator light and towel bar handle.

https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/KDTM404KPS.html?queryID=cd156736fecb282b9d82ffdac40d5cfe

https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/KDFM404KPS.html?queryID=cd156736fecb282b9d82ffdac40d5cfe

We have the Miele 7566. Chosen solely for offering the maximum amount of wine-glass washing (we like to entertain and we use stemmed water glasses for everyday use). If I didn't care wash stemware often, I would have gone with a lower-end model. That said, I LOVE the AutoDos feature, and I'm surprised how much I love the interior lighting.

The best way to choose is to visit an appliance showroom with a box of your dishes. Test out every item you use regularly. Plates, glasses, bowls--our Whirlpool was also very bad at holding our cereal bowls. And go with a model that has the auto-open feature at the end of the cycle. Miele and Bosch both offer those, not sure how many other companies do. I love being able to turn on my DW at bedtime and know that the DW will open and vent itself, giving me super-dry dishes to unload in the morning.

I love my Bosch in spite of some weirdly placed tines. I love the fact that it doesn't have a drying element, and I like the layout of the third rack (in the 300 level). Great job cleaning and very quiet.

This house had a bottom of the market KitchenAid when we moved in (to go with other the bottom of the market appliances). It held a little less capacity than the 18" Miele we had left behind in the apartment. There were some things that did not fit well in the Miele because of the tight organization compared to the spread out and loose racks of the KA.

We waited almost a year for the Bosch we wanted, and got a slightly different model. We haven't really used it yet, we are so used to hand washing things in the basement utility sink and the kitchen is only 90%+ done, not 100.

Bosch is the best value. Miele are great but service in the us in meh

My dishes fit into my Bosch DW perfectly. It's like someone designed it exclusively for me--based on the size of my dishes and the number of dishes and cookware I use per day. There are two people in my household and we seldom eat out. When my daughter and her family visit for the week, the Bosch still seems perfect, except that we run the dishes twice a day. My daughter's Meile is perfect for her because she uses Fiestaware plates, saucers and bowls, so her dishes are far more bulky than my Correlle or Crate and Barrel set. Our glass/mug-ware are similar. She hand-washes a whole lot more pots and pans than I do. That's why you should bring your dishes to the store to see what fits your lifestyle best. Either way I love the third rack on both models.

APPLIANCE REPAIR MM LLC I very much appreciate your professional opinion and great advice on dishwashers. Unfortunately I only have big box stores or a high-end appliance place here, so I can't easily get objective advice on dishwashers locally. That is why Houzz has been so wonderful for me!

You wrote: "Brands like Bosch, KitchenAid, GE, and Whirlpool are also great choices. Trust customer reviews and local store advice too. Good luck with your purchase! If you've got more questions, I'm here to help."

Are these all brands with good reliability records in your experience?What about the ease of obtaining parts for them?

What do you know about LG as a dishwasher brand?

Thank you again!

mcarroll16 "We have the Miele 7566. Chosen solely for offering the maximum amount of wine-glass washing (we like to entertain and we use stemmed water glasses for everyday use). If I didn't care wash stemware often, I would have gone with a lower-end model. That said, I LOVE the AutoDos feature, and I'm surprised how much I love the interior lighting.

The best way to choose is to visit an appliance showroom with a box of your dishes. Test out every item you use regularly. Plates, glasses, bowls--our Whirlpool was also very bad at holding our cereal bowls. And go with a model that has the auto-open feature at the end of the cycle. Miele and Bosch both offer those, not sure how many other companies do. I love being able to turn on my DW at bedtime and know that the DW will open and vent itself, giving me super-dry dishes to unload in the morning."

Thank you very much for this helpful information. The Miele model where I recently stayed had the auto-open feature, which I agree is wonderful and prevents confusion about whether the machine has run, too. What do you love about AutoDos? I can imagine that the lighting is amzing!

Ha! AutoDos has made me lazy. I don't measure out detergent to start a load. I don't worry about whether I'm putting too much or too little. I change the AutoDos disk once a month or so. And when I want to start a load, I just press "start" and close the door. (I admit that this timesaver is solely because I dislike pods and use powder detergent. Not sure AutoDos is that useful to pods users.)

Tuga: my LG model is: LDT5678ST. Stainless steel interior, metal racks, quiet, love it!

My Samsung DW has that "opens after the dishes have run" feature, so I was less than impressed when the salespeople at the high-end factory showrooms (where their DWs are 4-6 times the price of my Samsung) mentioned it as a high-end feature. I honestly think it is kind of low rent that it pops open. We use our DW constantly, and it is frequently left open anyway because everyone is on different eating schedules. So having the door pop open when the DW is finished is not a signal in my house that the dishes have been run. We have a cute little sign that we flip over to indicate "dirty" or "clean".

I'm remodeling my kitchen, so I am installing a high-end Miele DW because I can. I imagine that it will work fine enough, but I suspect there will not be this world-ending difference in cleaning, drying, or loading that justifies a price 4-6 times more than the DW I currently have. The Miele will have a "knock to open" feature, which is why I am buying it beyond the brand name. Shallow of me of course, but I think of the Tony Orlando song when I think of it--which makes me smile. I think I will have fun showing it off to friends. If you can have fun with a boring cleaning device, then I think that is pretty cool.

The intention of auto-open is to facilitate evaporation of moisture to speed the drying process, not so much to indicate that the load is done.

On my Miele, it is 100% clear that the DW is open because of auto-open at the end of a cycle. There is a little piece of plastic lightly holding the door in place. You would not miss it. Really love that feature.

" The intention of auto-open is to facilitate evaporation of moisture to speed the drying process "

I find with my Bosch that opening it up immediately after a cycle is finished actually results in wetter dishes.....the longer I leave it closed, the dryer my load is.

Toronto Veterinarian, the Bosch waits a bit for the moisture to condense and drain before it pops the door open. It's helpful to leave the door open for a period of time to increase drying before unloading the dishes.

Tuga, if you are still considering, I didn't mention the Bosch 800 I'd wanted so badly came with a half load cycle. When I reserved the appliance, I was looking forward to that since we are a two person household and I don't like to leave a partially filled dishwasher for two and three days.

The Kitchen Aid I ended up with instead has a cycle that will wash and dry the top two racks only as a trade off...it's worked out fine although I admit to just running quick wash program almost as often as I use the two-rack option.

My Kitchen Aid does have a filter I'm supposed to check occasionally, no food processor garbage disposal type grinder like the old. Two times only in a year, I've found one little piece of something that looks like a piece of cooked macaroni in it to remove. ???? I scrape, never ever rinse my dishes.

I am still considering, thank you for continuing to comment! Someone I met online had a real nightmare experience with getting Miele service (with Miele not being at all helpful) recently, so I am definitely considering other brands. How long have you had your KitchenAid? The information about small loads is very helpful.

I have taken the excellent advice offered here and am back with a narrowed down question. I surveyed repair services and they all recommend American dishwasher brands in my area since service on Bosch and Miele is not readily available. I would like a third rack and good drying capabilities, with a short cycle a plus. So I am looking at GE, Frigidaire, Maytag, Whirpool, KitchenAid as far as I can determine. I do appreciate all the votes for Bosch, which I was ready to go with, until I found out about the issues with repairs to that brand in my state.

The dishwasher that was here when we bought the house 10 years ago was Kitchen Aid, I think higher end model for its age which was approx 18 yrs as our best guess and the owners manual left here for us. I've had the new Kitchen Aid now 13 months. I'd wanted the Bosch, but I haven't been disappointed in the Kitchen Aid in the least. And I can get local service. We do not have hard water, I do use Finish Rinse Aid in the rinse aid compartment and whatever Cascade product happens to be the Costco special the month I need to buy some..

We had a higher-end kitchen aid in this house when we moved in. I liked it fine.

KitchenAid and Maytag are both part of Whirlpool. Whirlpool bought KitchenAid in 1986, Maytag in 2006. Haier bought GE appliance division in 2016. Frigidaire brand is owned by Electrolux.

That is helpful to know, dadoes.

I am looking seriously at KDTM804KPS or KDTM604KPS which are available from Home Depot, Lowes and Best Buy. Unfortunately my local appliance place can't get either one before mid or end of February in the case of the 804. A neighbor recommends paying a third party for installation rather than the big box places.

Another KitchenAid option for you might be the 700 series which shares many of the features of the 800 (including the LED lighting, if that interests you). Here is the model number:

KDTM704KPS

@HU-16168550092: "Another KitchenAid option for you might be the 700 series..."

The Kitchenaid 704 dishwashers performed the worst of all Kitchenaid dishwashers tested by CR. The 604 would be better choice though Kitchenaid dishwashers weren't recommended due to mediocre brand reliability.

It may be that Bosch are the best as CR and many consumers say, but service is not available in my area except by waiting for many weeks for a company to come 150 miles at considerable expense to service Bosch or Miele machines. That knocks both out of consideration for me, unfortunately. I am restricted to Asian and American brands by this factor. I would consider a Bosch or a Miele if service were available.

I appreciate any guidance on third rack fitted above brands, along with any advice on extended warranties, pro or con. A friend here has had excellent post-manufacturing warranty service from a company brilliantly named CYA, for example.

Thank you all!

Tuga, I have the 604 Kitchen Aid. It must sound like I'm doing a hard sell on Kitchen Aid and I'm really not - although happy with mine. If the Bosch 800 series with crystal dry had been available sometime in that 18 mo span I would have bought it. But I'm really not convinced now it would do any better job with my dishes.

I paid my regular appliance repairman to remove the old, install the new. He charged me $80 and I felt like it was money well spent. Plus kept the funds small business and local. I know he has a daughter who just began college in Arizona this Fall. We always visit while he works and he's so proud of her.....😊

"I appreciate any guidance on third rack fitted brands that have service in my area..."

Only you know where "my area" is and you can research appliance repair shops there and the brands they handle.

" Is it necessary to run a short cycle with no dishes..."

Follow the instructions in the Installation Instructions and Use and Care manual for your appliance. If you don't have printed copies, you can find them online on the Bosch Home website.

Thank you so much for the great link, wdccruise! That took me right to what I need to know.