Im doing the same thing Moses

What I like about Takunori Kimura is that he grades his roses on disease resistance (type 0-4), allowing growers to choose roses suitable for their own spraying habits. It's shame that he is the only breeder I know of who does this. Of course, fungal strains vary from place to place, and in the end we still have to rely on our own experiments to know how they perform, but at least we can have a better starting point.

Hi Feiy, just to note, Kordes and Tantau also do this. They actually grade blackspot ("sooty mold") and PM resistance separately, and Kordes also provides a rating for rust. I wish all the big names would do it.

Kordes example:

Tantau:

seaside, oh thank you for the information about Kordes and Tantau. I could only see rough information on Kordes US website before, so I just went to their European website and finally saw these detailed indicators for different diseases. It’s so great! I agree with you that it would be wonderful if all the big brands did this. I'm glad that I always learn new things here. ^_^

Feiy,

I believe you are aware of the ADR trials conducted in various locations in Germany. The trial gardens are primarily in zone 7, a couple in zone 6. New roses are entered from many rose breeders (never saw an Austin rose win an ADR designation, thus far), and trialled for three years getting no winter protection, nor fungicide spraying.

Roses that win the rigorous trial evaluations are designated ADR winners. I look for the ADR designation very diligently whenever I find a new rose offered for sale commercially. If it has it and otherwise appeals to me, I make that rose a top contender for adding to my rose bed. So far, the majority of ADR roses in my garden are either KORDES, the originators of the ADR trials, and Meilland roses.

Since I have decided not to spray for fungus diseases, especially for black spot, which is devastating under my hot, humid summer growing conditions here in zone 6b, Pittsburgh, PA, I have to be very careful in selecting roses to include in my rose bed.

Now you may understand the background behind my query about the disease and winter hardiness of those spectacular Japanese roses that it seems everyone is raving about. If they are not bullet proof black spot free or close enough to this mark, I cannot grow it here successfully.

Moses

Moses, any updates you care to share with us =)?

Please people, make sure that you are obtaining these roses from honest sources-that is, sources that respect the breeders' patents (i.e, ,the breeders recieve their cut of the sales) and that the sources do respect phyto-sanitary regulations. As true lovers of roses, and as true gardeners, it is so important to not lose sight of our ethical standards; doing so poses a serious

environmental risk,and could very easily threaten the very future of roses in general, and each and every one of our gardens. BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Update, 6-12-24:

Disappointed so far.

1.) Still looking for a seller who has a reasonable price. $60.00-80.00 + (shipping) $20.00 or so, adding up to $80.00 - $100.00, a bush is beyond my means. I would never purchase more than one bush, one that I like, as a test, to assess the seller's integrity.

2.) I like Masora, however it has a black spot and hardiness warning.

3.) An independent disease and winter hardiness validator is essential. Taking the breeders word for it is not always dependable.

So, I am searching for a gallon size own root, in its pot, for $60.00 including shipping, no more, having excellent black spot resistance and winter hardiness at least half way down the canes in zone 5.

Moses

Moses, I don't get how some people you can directly message here, and others you cannot. I tried messaging you.

Moses,

Miyabi rose is a Wabara rose and us suitable in zone 5. It is very hardy! I noticed of all my Haoanese rises , itcwas tge most vigorous! So I looked it up & sure enough-zone 5! She us beautiful! zpink w/ orange ir peach centers. One if the most popular Jaoanese bouquet roses & great in the garden!

Enjoy!

Z10 socal, The person you are messaging has to have their messaging turned on as an option. So Moses would have to turn that on

Vapor, I don't remember it asking me that when I signed up years ago. Ok, that makes sense.

Riffs, I whole heartely understand that a lot of rosarians on here do not like GRF, and what happened was an avoidable catastrophe. I myself got sick tiny roses from the order.

Other vendors carry Japanese flowers and they are going to pop up everywhere in the next 5 years. I was the one who asked Moses for an update, so please do not poke at him.

Z10Socal,

I think I successfully activated my messaging by email.

Moses

Kitty, that is gorgeous! What other Japanese roses do you have? I'm trying to see some conficture roses in people's garden. 

For years I have wanted lavender crystal mini rose , which was bred by a Japanese breeder. It's always out of stock at Heirloom.

Moses, I can't message you on my phone. I will message you later today :) when I'm by my computer

The problem with these Japanese roses is that none of them are being sold legally in the US. If you can only find a rose on Etsy, or GRF, that means they are illegally rooting florist roses and selling them without licensing. It's the same as copying an artists painting and selling copies of it.

It's basically stealing directly from the rose creator.

It would be nice to be able to talk about Japanese roses on this forum.

I get some of you care about the patents and remind everyone about them.

So far I and others can't find anything about Japanese patents. I'm willing to start a donation fund to give to the Japanese breeders, but so far I can't even find the breeders' contact info for the roses I'm interested in.

I really hope we can allow this forum to be peaceful and non prejudice in allowing others to talk about roses they are interested in. Thank you!

A forum member-seasiderooftop- managed to contact at least one of the Japanese breeders,but I don't know how or even if this person is still on the forum.

"It's the same as copying an artists painting and selling copies of it." I am actually an artist, and I would be VERY upset if someone tried to copy and subsequently sell the copies.

It's just that, as rose lovers,I think we all owe gratitude to the people who breed them. I'm not stopping anyone from discussing these, or any other, roses,but likewise I am entitled to express my opinion. Nor am I trying to "make war" with anyone.

With all due respect, and this isn't going to sound respectful, but I really don't mean it to be offensive, what you're saying is you wish you could talk about stolen goods without judgement.

You can't find the info because they don't sell in the US. Probably because it's too cost prohibitive.

You get some of us care about patents. I mean, do you have any artist friends? Would you care if someone was copying their work and not paying them or attributing them?

What would make any rose propagator continue giving us new roses if that's what they face? This is largely why independent rose propagators leave the business. They can't make money to live on their work because people don't mind stealing it.

Bart, thanks for sharing that information. You often bring up the patents, and it seems like this forum has a reputation for being harsh with people who want to talk about this. I read a post where someone mentioned being driven away after you went off on them getting a Japanese rose. We understand your stance and Reb's, but do we need to revisit this topic constantly? It's your prerogative, but you mentioned not wanting to start a conflict, and it seems that might be happening.

You are unhappy with Grace Rose Farms, and don't want people to buy Japanese roses from her. And you don't want them to purchase them from small businesses.

People are going to find a way to get these roses, and will come on here and talk about it.

Reb, while I don't know you personally, your comment does come across as disrespectful. Do you shop at places like Amazon, Target, or Walmart, knowing that China is notorious for having sweatshops? Everyone has their own moral compass.

Can we let people live their life(with their values) without insulting them?

I agree Z10Social, at this point we all know everyones personal opinion on this subject so lets just move on the the question at hand and not bully and berate someones honest question

Do not judge, and you will not be judged.

Gospel of Matthew 7:1 and the Gospel of Luke 6:37

I am under the impression that GRF brought all her roses in US legally.

I was going to say the same thing. I think someone Investigate thatAngle. So while we may not want to buy fromFor other reasonsIt doesn't appear they are legally important. Also there is some older japanese roses which may not be the ones people want but those were brought here years agoLegally as far as I know. Such as the rose mentioned from heirloom.... Above that should say it does appear they are legally imported from GRF. I think seaside rose garden did her investigations on the site At sea Sellers At sea ETSY.

Asia sells their roses for dirt cheap. Which tells me they don't care about their patents. Japan would be shutting down all these places selling them for $3 if so.

However, if I find the breeder in Hiroshima, and I end up getting a rose he created, I will gladly give him some money.

Moses &

Z10SoCal,

I have about 20+ Japanese & European roses that are unique bouquet roses. Of my Jaoanese roses, as I nentioned before, Miyabi, is popular and very winter hardy, zone 5, photos above post. It is partial-disease resistant. It can get BS in extreme almost daily rain/humidity, which I had all soring-summer and now. It was more disease resustant possibly than my pther J roses.

I have a handful of roses out of my 100 regular roses and , 30 roses I gave away, that are total disease resistant, almost no matter what. Those total disease resistant roses are only a few out of 100 which are:

most of my large selection of Kordes, Olivia Rose Austin, Mother of Pearl, Chantal Merieux, and Julia Child’s.

If a normal warm summer, less humidity,, less rain, more normal sunshine days in NY, I have had little to no BS on most of my roses. However, most of my roses are now being selected for disease resistance and they are mainly resistant.

For prices, I only see Miyabi sold on Etsy. GRF sells it as bouquet cuttings only.

Eisvogel is another pink/kavendarLavendar/peach which so far is disease resustant-NO BS-hardy!!!! A few of us in Houzz have Eisvogel & love her.

Gcmranch on Etsy has the least expensive roses & sends reliable small roses. PlantRoses, JessiesrosesUSA, & Ergongzi are more expensive but send reliable roses, too. All Etsy roses, almost, come baby size, but some have thick canes. JessiesrosesUSA sends really large roses, though! The biggest ever!!!!!

I also like several other rose sellers on Etsy, too. They all gave me great service , reliable reliable, snd shipped pretty quickly! I feel I received my dollars worth because they are sooooo unique & beautiful! No worries! Super happy with my new roses!

Thank you, Kitty!!!!

You said you have roses on your other post but do you mind if I ask you about the Japanese ones here, since this post is about Japanese roses?

Do you have Miyabi Cha or brown, conficture,tamaki misora?

Moses,

Grace Rose Farm is selling Japanese roses as 2 years bare root for $50 and $20 shipping.

https://online.flippingbook.com/view/510971264/

This week offering.

Moses,

I tried messaging you and I still cannot find the message button on your profile.

Please try again, Z10Scal. I went to the site and re-entered the prompt. Hope it took this time.

Moses

This is what I see. Can you message me? I bet the way I can message you back.

To all posters,

It appears my post is going down the same path of disagreement, leading to contention, leading to animosity...then some much beloved members, longtime members to boot, declare that they are no longer going to post on the Roses Forum. I do not want this to happen, so I hope you all will discontinue any further posts here as I consider this post dead to me, as I hope you all will. Much love to you all!

Moses

Moses, I didn't see any long-time users stating they were leaving because of the discussion. There was one user I mentioned who decided to stop posting due to negative reactions about getting a Japanese rose, but that wasn’t related to your post.

It seems this conversation has made it clear that some of us enjoy discussing Japanese roses while others do not. We now understand where everyone stands on this topic. We’ve acknowledged these perspectives and hope to move forward with rose discussions without needing to revisit this issue repeatedly.

So overall this discussion was productive!

10Socal z10socal, I don't think you have your messaging turned on either

Vapor, I had no idea. Just looked and said allow users that follow me to message me setting on. LOL I do not have many followers on here. Can you please tell me if you see message me now button?

I just sent you a message so Cal Moses does not have his messaging turned on

Thank you Vapor, that was kind of you to look into the technical issue and fix the problem. I appreciate it.

I just finished drinking a tea and my cap says this. I find it so appropriate to this discussion.

Socal karma Socal, socal I don't have many followers either But I don't even know what that means What is that getting us!?

You now have 46 followers with me. I think I only have 5. Its giving you more notifications 🤣

Just what I need! Now you have 6 followers Come on

Z10SoCal,I bought my Lavender Crystal mini from Burling Rose Nursery two or three years ago.it thrives here - my Houzz address still says 9b, but we are 10a now in Santa Clarita.
Burlington has a huge variety of roses, including many minis and minifloras.
Here is LCrystal (not to be confused with Lavender Crush, which I have too).

For what it’s worth Moses, this discussion spurred me to look into the legal aspects of Japanese roses again and it was quite interesting so for me at least this has been a very educational thread. These types of threads also raise awareness so that folks can do their own research and make informed decisions and I think that is very helpful as well.

Z10SoCal

I have the ”Miyabi” which is pink/peach, photo in pist above, not Miyabi Brown. I had Masora, but tossed due to BS-I had an unusually rainy season 2024 in NY. Masora is a beautiful rose. I can’t read the rest if your post roses…. Mispells, above? Clarify???

I only see that GRF selks Miyabi in cutting bouquets. I dont see any ither tyoe of Miyabi on her site for sale. I do see Miyabi for sake in Etsy now. It may cost kess if Gcmranch on Etsy selks it this coming winter or soring.

Sylvia, it's divine and I have wanted it for a while. Two years ago I asked her if she had it...I'll have to ask her again. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏽

Ps, I wish more roses were minis!

Kitty, Myiabi is in their new catalog and will be available this Friday for members (and on Tuesday for non- members) as well as Princess Hitomy.

Thank you so much, Heather! That is all that I wish to do: raise awareness. Encourage people to do research on their own and think about what they are doing. And, BTW it's not just the patent stuff that upsets me about Etsy. It's also the concern that plants might be being imported without correct phyto- sanitary inspection.

I see that seasiderooftop, the person that did contact at least one Japanese breeder, is probably still on the forum; her/his/their thread on the White House rose garden is dated July 21st 2024. If one is sincerely interested ,one could always PM this person or start a thread asking about this aspect of the matter.

I think Ben also contacted a Japanese rose breeder a while back, and said that this rose hybridizer was not being compensated for his roses that were being sold in the US. Diane

O, I missed that, Diane,but a big "THANK YOU" to Ben for caring enough!!! I so do not want dishonesty and censorship to be normalized, which is why I'm being such a nag about this issue.

Diane, Bart,

I’m afraid that wasn’t me, I do not recall the incident.